The CHANGE of Life for Women

This is a conversation between Rebecca O'Rourke, a behavioral expert and master hypnotist, and Lisa Boat, a menopause coach and consultant. They discuss Lisa's journey from being an educator to becoming a menopause coach. Lisa talks about the challenges of transitioning from being a parent to an empty nester and how it can affect identity. She also emphasizes the importance of holistic approaches to menopause and the lack of knowledge about women's bodies. They discuss the difficulties of communication between parents and adult children and the need for parents to be seen as human beings. They also touch on the importance of creating menopause-inclusive environments in organizations. Welcome to Change, community helpers affecting growth and education. Join us as experts and community helpers come together to share with you wisdom, tools, strategies, and ways that you can evolve into the best version of you. I am your host, Rebecca O'Rourke, behavioral expert and master hypnotist. I look forward to guiding you through all of these tools and strategies that will assist you to becoming the best version of you. Welcome to the next episode of Change. And with me today, I have Lisa Boat. She is a menopause coach and consultant. And we are so grateful to have her here today as this is a topic that so many people need some help and advice and tools with. So thank you for joining us, Lisa. And please introduce yourself. Oh, well, thanks for having me. Yes, as you said, I am a coach and consultant. I was my journey to get here has been a little bit winding. So I was an educator for 20 years and the last decade of my career as a coach and provided professional development for other educators, which I love. I love that. And as most people, I also have a I also have a podcast. I also host Transforming 45. And I don't think there's been a single guest yet who hasn't said during COVID. I realized if there's been it was such a transformational time. And for me, it was during COVID. I realized that I was not meant to work in the system. I loved kids. I loved being with amazing educators every day. And the system was really taking its toll on me. And so actually, just about a year ago, I resigned from teaching. And I had started working in the empty nest space for coaching because I also live in that place where my kids were getting ready to fly the fly the coop. And I was completely unprepared for how that was going to rock my entire sense of identity and how it changed essentially everything in my life. You know, all of the all of the structures that we put in place suddenly don't have something to hold up. So there's this huge shift in identity that no one really talks about and there's not a lot of support for. So I started there and I like to take a very holistic approach to things. So as I was working with women around the empty nest, physical elements always played into the conversation. And I was starting to notice my own perimenopause journey was really starting to show itself. So I wanted to know more. And I took a menopause coaching certification course, which was one of the most enlightening learning experiences I have ever had. And the depth and breadth of what we do not know about our own bodies is unbearable in some circumstances in some ways, because that knowledge is really powerful for how to set up a life that supports moving through perimenopause and menopause in the best possible way. So I can't wait for you to share some of those ways of helping with us. Yeah, I just wanted to mention that, you know, it's interesting that we as parents, we are not designed to kind of separate from our children. But, you know, our kids are designed to do that with us. And it's a really sort of strange place where you know it's natural. You know, it's supposed to happen. But there's this part that's going, oh, my goodness. Yeah, it's really. Yeah, it's real. I had this conversation with my oldest last year when he was in his. So my kids are only one school year apart. So I had one graduate last year and another graduate this year. And my oldest took a gap year. But my youngest is not. So we will be instant empty nesters in September. They're both going to school at the same time. So it's a big like we're just going to rip this band out. But I was having this conversation with my oldest when he was it was like January. And I don't know if you remember, but I really remember January, February, my last year of high school. And the squeeze that I was feeling around like waiting for acceptance is and the work that was piling up in the pressure around getting marks. All the while, there's this like some like a hum running underneath it of knowing that everything in your life is about to change. But you don't know how that's going to happen. And it comes to this like head and they kind of like the 18 year old become a little bit spiky. And it's the best way I can describe it. And I remember myself being that way. And I remember the way my mom handled it, just not the way I wanted to. Oh, because they learned what not to do. Because it just created more tension. It was hard. So I sat down with him and I said, look, it was at a time where nothing was wrong. Neither of us were upset about anything. Can we chat for a minute? Yeah, sure. But I just want you to know, I see you. I know that everything you're going through right now is totally developmentally appropriate. And I get it. Also, it happens to intersect with all of my sorest pain points. So I understand what your experiences and what you're going through. But I also want you to know that every time you push back, you push against me, it's lighting up my team centers. And so I'm not asking you to change. I know what you're going through is completely part of the process. What I am asking is that you're a little bit more gentle with each other. And it was it was a good conversation. It definitely changed and shifted. And there were moments where we were able to call back to that and be like, hey, let's table this and talk about it later. And both of us are not so spicy. But yeah, that separation is really hard, especially when you've designed your whole life. Right. Like I talk about this in my work a lot. I had I followed all the rules. I did all of the things. I went to university. I got married. I had kids. I had the job. I had, you know, designed my life for career and young family. And I never once thought beyond it. And then I got to the beyond was like, well, what now? I'm this person. I have tons of life left to live, but I've never even considered what this phase of life would be. And this is a funny movie called Life Beyond. Yes. Beyond Children. It could be a horror, it could be a thriller, it could be a comedy. It's all things. So we definitely need more narratives about and it is beginning. Right. Like we're seeing the burgeoning of this work. But we there's tons of narratives about what it's like to be a young person falling in love. So it's like to be a young parent. But there is not a lot of narratives about this particular phase of womanhood. Absolutely. And one of the things that I love about what you just said is it's it's a very useful approach. You know, there's this doctor that we use for her studies. Her name is Dr. Virginia Satir. Maybe you've heard of her before. She's a very famous family therapist. And she identified, you know, when people don't feel safe, they're going to take one of four coping stances, which is blaming, placating, computing and distracting. Right. So and what she teaches us is is leveling and is really what's going to get us the results we want and success in life. Have you ever heard that saying, oh, I'll level with you? Yes. Right. It comes from this concept. And the idea is that, you know, when you're able and willing to just say what you got to say and do what you got to do, then you can get the results and move forward in the way that you want to. Because it's usually just things like fear of failure, fear of confrontation, fear of hurting someone's feelings. Yes. So as a mom, we're very likely to step into this placating role, which is I'll sacrifice myself for you. So, yes. Yeah. And so you just gave a really wonderful example of leveling with your child so that you can move together, grow together, get better results. So that is amazing. And, you know, that leveling piece, I think, is important, even with women going through their change and menopause and things like that. Absolutely. Yeah. And all of those things are so intertwined with each other. I mean, even if you if you have not had children, if it wasn't possible for you or it was not what you wanted for your life, there still is this unwinding of expectation of who we were, who we were told we were supposed to be. And with motherhood, there's that element of complexity around that. Yeah, absolutely. That narrative of self-sacrifice. It's almost like once you have a child, you no longer exist as a human. You are just a person who is there to serve. Until you need to again. Until. Exactly. And I will say one of the things that really has been highlighted for me in some of the work that I've done with clients, particularly around communication with children. And when clients say to me, I don't know how to communicate with my adult children because they have never seen me as a person. They only see me as a mother. And so now we are at this really hard place in our relationship because they don't want the mother role. But we don't know how to talk to each other as humans. And that was a really powerful moment of reflection. And a reason why the self-sacrifice narrative is really dangerous. I mean, it is on all kinds of levels. But it's important for your children to see you as a human because they are not children for them. You actually spend most of your life walking with the adults that you created. I mean, I know childhood lasts beyond 18 years. However, the relationship really does change. Like, yes, they might still be in your care and they might still be living in your home and all of those things. But it's not that same kind of intense caregiver role. And so they need to see that you are a human being. So showing up in your mothering role as the full version of yourself and also expressing your own needs is key. Not only for yourself, but that kind of leadership to show young humans that actually we don't have to completely abandon ourselves because it's a gift when we show up in our fullness. Absolutely. So how do you approach facilitating change with organizations to create menopause inclusive environments? And what key strategies have you found effective? Yeah, so that is part of the newest part of my work. There was a report that came out in just October of this year from the Menopause Foundation of Canada. And it actually happened to intersect. I graduated from my menopause coaching course and this report came out at the same time. And it just was a lot as there was a lot of synchronicity that happened there. But there was some really shocking statistics. Well, shocking to see the numbers, but it was like part of me already knew. So and the biggest one was that one in 10 women are leaving the workforce at the peak of their career because of unsupported menopause and perimenopause symptoms. Wow, that's a scary number. It's a big number. And I could at this point, looking back, also see it as the role that it played in my decision. Now, I may not have made a different decision. I left education for lots of reasons. However, I certainly was experiencing a lack of energy, rage that was like I was angry at everything and everybody all the time. And I didn't realize that those were some of the symptoms of perimenopause that I was experiencing because nobody talks about those things. The mental health elements of menopause are very silenced. It's a roller coaster ride for women. And we do a lot of coaching on the mental aspect of it with with hypnosis and neurolinguistics programming because, you know, a lot of women, you know, not just women, people, when they have a feeling, for some reason, they need to attach a story to that feeling. And so we're now creating stories to justify how we feel. And the truth is, is the story sometimes can be really damaging to relationships and careers and all kinds of things. So we got to get out of the stories and the information, knowing your body, having supports. All of these things are important to getting, you know, the mental and physical aspect of it. Absolutely. Yeah. Please tell us more. Yeah. So being an educator, I know the ropes of how that works. So the first place I approached actually was Teachers Federation. Also, because teachers are predominantly women between the ages of, you know, 35 or 55. That's a big swath of the workforce. And like all caregiving professions at the moment, there's a real crisis happening in being able to keep and retain people, particularly women in that age range. Right. And we have the data to show it. Also, schools can't keep building staff. There's a big crisis that is happening. I have to admit, Lisa, that I also left the school board after working there for 10 years at a peak point in my career to get healthy and go on a health journey. So, yes, I'm following along very intensively. I get it. I'm in it. I, you know, I've done lots of work around this as far as personally and professionally. And your wisdom is really, really, truly needed and going to help us all. Well, thank you. I appreciate that deeply. And I see you. We'll have to talk about this part of our journeys later. Yeah. So approaching federations and where I start is professional development. Right. Because one of the trickiest elements of that is this work is that people don't even know what their problem actually is. So it is identifying what is happening in women's bodies and how it is showing up for them in the workplace. And one of the things that I love the most, it's the thing that keeps me going every day, is that when I start talking about all of the different symptoms of menopause and perimenopause, I can see, like, a light go on in a woman's eyes where they, for the first time, realize. Because they're sitting with this fear that they're just losing their minds. And often when they go to health care practitioners, because the knowledge around menopause and perimenopause is so minimal, that idea that they're losing their minds is kind of confirmed for them. Right. Because often the response is more often than not, well, you're too young for this. It can't be that. Let's put you on antidepressants. Or it's just anxiety. Or this is in your head. Or this is just how it is now. You're just going to have to get used to it. And none of those are the right answers. I mean, there are instances where perhaps it really is some sort of clinical depression or anxiety. The thing that I want to stress the most is that every woman's journey is completely different. And so we focus on the woman in front of us and really listen to what's going on with that human. So I will never say absolutely not to anything or absolutely yes, everyone should be doing this, because it's not. That's not the truth. It's different for everything. There is no cookie cutter approach. Absolutely. Yeah. And it's just not like it is not possible to put a woman and her body into a cookie cutter and say that what worked for this person is 100 percent going to work for you. So and that actually can be difficult when you're when you're trying to build a narrative and say this is the best practice. Well, yes, there are general trends that are best practice. It also is so deeply specific. Absolutely. As a hypnotist and a neuro-linguistic, we offer a free screening because it's the same idea that it's an individual thing and we have to see where are you now and where do you want to be? And can we bridge that gap for you? And are you kind of going to fit into the tools and strategies that we're offering? There is sort of, you know, this element when we give that read to somebody, we call it a read because we're sort of showing them the things that are in their way that maybe they didn't see before. And you're right. It's like this look that they have, like, oh, my gosh, I feel seen or heard for the first time that, wow, how do you know this? Yes. And it can be a magical moment for some people. Absolutely. It's powerful. It is really powerful. And it also gives you hope. Like if you're sitting in a space where you are feeling like this is just how life is from now on, that can feel very, very challenging. Right. It can feel hopeless. But it's not. We have to remember that this is a transition. And with the, you know, one of the analogies I just started using was like think back to when you were a teenager and you were going through puberty. What was that like? Like that was deeply uncomfortable. And all of the changes that happened. I could remember my son when he was going through puberty looking at me going, I'm angry and I don't know why. Right. And I'm like, yeah, that's hormone study. Yeah. And so the same thing is happening again at this phase. But we don't know because nobody talks about it. Right. There's conversations that we have with kids around puberty. It's in the health curriculum. However, it is covered or not covered. But there are some conversations that happen. And yet we go through it in mystery and having the responsibility when you're a teenager. In most cases, you don't have the same kind of responsibility that you have when you're a middle aged woman. Right. You can take the time to like my youngest child. I love him. But God, he spends his life sleeping. In human growth and development, that is a centric phase, right, where the world does revolve around. Exactly. Yes. Where we are, we don't have the space to do that. Although I would argue that some of the work is actually reclaiming that actually we do need some of that space and that time. And so that is also some of the work with corporations and businesses. Right. Like what policies need to be in place to ensure the ongoing wellness of your employees? Because while that might seem like an investment that you don't want to make at this point in time, that woman who is at the peak of her career is a valuable asset. You know, like you and I leaving our reciprocal school boards, walking away with all of our own schooling, all of our experience, all of the professional development that was poured into us to make us the facilitators that we are. All of the institutional knowledge and wisdom that is irreplaceable and incredibly valuable. That is what that woman is. Right. That is the risk of what can walk at the door and then use to create a whole new identity and life, which might be the right choice. Also, if the courts are in place, that they feel seen and valued and that their health and well-being actually matters, makes it possible for them to stay and continue on their chosen career. And one of the other really important elements of that is that when you look at the leadership gaps that exist in senior leadership across both private and corporate public organizations, we lose women during childbearing years. We are losing women again during perimenopause and menopause. And we need women in those senior leadership positions. So this is really important work to start closing that gap. Absolutely. And might I just add that it's not just senior leadership positions, that there is a world around us that really wants to be inclusive. And, you know, I got hired on as a firefighter a long time ago before I left the school board and I got hired because I was a woman. And, you know, it's not that I was special. It was just simply they needed a woman on the fire department and for it to be inclusive. And so that became me. So there I ended up leaving the fire department as well as the school board to get on my own health journey and ended up creating self-employment so that I did have some control over my environment and my schedule so I can be in a nice, calm space that's supportive and inclusive. Amen to all the things that you are saying. And I know that we are not alone. Like you said, that number is staggering. So can you share a specific example of a successful initiative that you implemented to support menopausal employees in the workplace? And how did it impact organizational or the organization's culture? So the example I'm really thinking about is a workshop that I did for the Ottawa Carlton Teachers Federation. And it was in that session, you know, as we were talking earlier, women recognizing elements of what's happening in their bodies. And in the teaching world in particular, sick time is an issue on many different levels that could be a whole other show around compassionate care of employees. However, one of the one of the things that knowing what's happening in your body does and also working with someone like me, because we then get a plan together for how to actually start feeling better. Right. So when we actually have a plan and we and someone to hold you accountable, because that's part of the work that I do as well, because you can go to practitioners and they can give you a plan, but it's the implementation that often is the hurdle. So that is what I help you to do. Right. I help you implement. If you go to your naturopath and they give you a plan, I do that. Anyway, back to the organization. So if you are using a lot of your sick days, which is expensive for people who are in the caregiving realm for educators, it means creating a day plan. It means it's not just you can't just take a day. It's not easy. So when you know what's actually happening, you don't you are able to stay in your job a little bit more easily. Right. Like long term leaves are on the rise. Like you said, people walking out the door. So when those things are in place, then people are able to use less sick time. When there is policy around the supports that are necessary. So making sure that things like pelvic floor specialists are covered, making sure that, you know, people like me, menopause coaches are covered in your benefits plan. Those systemic changes. One, send a message to employees that we actually do care about you. We know that you are humans. You're not actually machines. And we need to pour some love and care into you because these are challenging times that we are moving through. So there's a message that is sent that way. There's actual support that is proven to work and be supportive of having naturopaths included. And naturopaths can also prescribe HRT if that is part of the care plan. That is what's working best for you. Making sure that those things are covered. And that starts to change the culture because we are saying we value your health and well-being. And one of the other strategies that I teach is around communication. So at the bottom of everything, really, is how we communicate to each other. And the strategy that I share comes straight out of the Ontario kindergarten curriculum, which is knowing and naming. Accepting and then asking for help. So a very specific example of it is if I wake up in the morning and I have a raging hormone headache that is going to impact the way I interact with other people during the day, then when I go into my workplace, I can say, hey, I have this really, my brain is not working the way I want it to today. This is how you might see it show up in my work today. And this is where I'm going to need a little bit of help and support. And it takes the guesswork out of everything, right? Because when you have someone show up in your space who's just a rage fest that day, whoever is around you starts wondering, right? Like, is it me? Did I do something? And then, you know, like you said earlier, all the stories we write about everything. But if we can just very clearly say this is not about you, this is me and the way my brain is functioning today, I'm going to need a little bit of help. And when something like this happens for you, I'll be here to do the same. That is how we change corporate culture. Amazing. Yeah, it goes back to the idea of leveling too, right? Being willing to say what you got to say and just level with the situation and do what you got to do too. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So amazing. What are the common misconceptions or challenges that you've encountered when advocating for menopause empowerment in the workforce? And how do you address them? Yeah, so many. So what I hear a lot is like, Lisa, this is such a small population, like, no one's going to invest in that. And it is not. It is not a small population. And the strategies that I bring. It's enormous. Yes. And the strategies that I bring, I come at it through a menopause lens, but they are good for everybody, right? Everybody needs the freedom to be able to communicate in that way. Because, yes, perimenopausal and menopausal women are going through a very specific transition. But show me somebody in an organization that is not going through something. Fair enough. Or anywhere, really. Or part of being a human being. That's right. We are all here and having this very human experience. And the more that we can be honest with each other about what is happening in this human experience, the better it is. So, yeah. And then the misconceptions also are around symptoms, because in this society and in this culture, we know about hot flushes and night sweats. Right? Those are the two things that are talked about the most often. And so often measured, used as measurement tools. Yes. Yes. And used as the joke quite often. Right? Like, oh, she's hot. Look at her at the hot flush. She must be menopausal. Which is like the tamest of them all. And the truth about hot flushes and night sweats is that those are actually basal motor events. So what's happening in your body is your cardiovascular system, it's like the alarm system from your cardiovascular, saying there are changes happening in here that we need to pay attention to because the protective factors that we have had through estrogen and progesterone are diminishing and we need to start doing things differently. Right? It's the message, like all of the we joke and we laugh about hormones, but hormones are the great messengers of your body, knocking literally like knocking on your body from the inside, saying there's things happening in here that we need to pay attention to. So it's changing that stigma also and the shame. Right? People don't want to talk about perimenopause and menopause because it's like, well, that means I'm getting old and I don't want people to see me in that way and that they think I won't be as good as what I did before. And like all of the narratives that we have around aging also, which is a whole other episode. But those are the those are some of the most common misconceptions that it's really not like it's just these two things. It's not a big deal. It doesn't impact the way people show up on a daily basis, all of which are incorrect. Right. But one of the one of the main things that women will talk to me about is brain fog and word recall, word retrieval. And it's because the parts of the brain that operate memory and word recall have a lot of estrogen neuroreceptors. So when estrogen isn't at play in your system in the way that it was, those receptors are not getting filled. So the brain's not firing in the way that it did. And those can have really significant impacts. Like if you have a presentation on that day and you are full brain fog happening and you can't recall the words that you need. I've done it in front of a group of 200 people with a microphone in my hand. Yeah. So when people know that those are the realities and that is what it's a whole other layer that's making it that much more challenging for this person that you have invested in to show up in their workplace, it's unwinding all of that narrative and just giving space for people to show up and say, this is what's happening and this is where I need support. And that is that that's where the change really starts to happen. Yes. Have you done much training on Chinese medicine and menopause? So I haven't. I have an acupuncturist and Chinese medicine practitioner who I see. Yeah. So and I haven't done much training, just research. Right. Yeah. You know, really what you're saying is along some of the same principles of, you know, and they call it what's called second spring. And the idea is that, you know, we're supposed to be reborn and we're supposed to be reborn in a way that's taking care of us where we become the primary, you know, person in our lives. The idea that when we're young, we can put a certain amount of pressure on ourselves or sacrifice to build our family and our kids. And, you know, but then we get to this stage of life where we're supposed to, you know, be reborn from all of that and become, you know, I don't want to call it self-serving, but self-caring for sure. Mm hmm. Yeah. And yeah, I almost wonder if that like self-serving narrative needs to shift around, like, if that's not a negative thing. If I am in service to myself, that's like I need to be in service to myself first. Again, a whole other podcast of words that have a negative connotation that don't deserve it. Yeah, absolutely. But I really love that you brought this up because I think it's really important. We can get stuck in the like quagmire of the things that are hard. And this is a time of great liberation. I love that idea of the second spring. Right. Especially as we are in that right now and we feel that freshness of what it is like when all the freshest shades of green come out and they start blooming into what they are going to be, what they're always meant to be. So this, yes, there's all the hard physical things. And this is a time where you finally get to choose and show up as the person that you always knew you wanted to be. And that is where there's like great joy and excitement and vitality about what comes next. Authentically you. Yeah. Yes. Amazing. So last one, in your experience, what is the most critical elements for organizations to consider when developing policies and programs to support employees experiencing menopause? And how do you guide them through this process? Yeah. So the process is sort of three prongs. So one, I do some visioning with executive leaders so that they understand why this is important work for their businesses and the culture that it can create. And then professional development so that, you know, we've talked about this a lot. So that people actually know and understand what is happening in their bodies and what you can do about it. Right. Which is which is key. And then three is the policy element so that the policies are and there's a couple of different categories. Right. So one of them is flexible work, working environments, anything from being able to work from home, being able to choose work locations, being able to control temperature in your workplace, even things as simple as just having ice packs in the freezer. Because, you know, like you said, a hot flush is a motor event. A really effective strategy for that is an ice pack on the back of the neck. So even just really simple things that you can literally implement tomorrow is really important to have in policy. And then benefits and then things around sick leave and and credit for menopause and perimenopause days, like actually having those things written in there so that it doesn't take a female employee having to go to their employer because one of the things that people have said to me is it's really embarrassing to go and have that conversation. Right. And until until the stigma of this is alleviated, which is cycles away for now, that's going to take some generations of time to do that, then having people like me work with those organizations so that women don't have to feel that humiliation and embarrassment of saying, I'm going through this hormonal change that's impacting the way that I'm able to do my work. Can we please do something about this? Right. When a business already has that policy in place, it eliminates that element, that whole element and creates a space where women know like, oh, it's OK. It's OK that I'm going through this. It is seen, it's known, it's understood. And the UK is way down the road on this. It's actually where I look to for inspiration, where they have done this work. The majority of businesses have menopause policy in place already. They have regular in-services and training around it. So all of this is entirely possible. We've got a whole country who has already implemented a lot of it. I mean, it's not perfect. Nowhere is perfect. But there is a real case study of how effective visioning, professional development and policy can be in making real changes for people. Yes. So if you are an employer out there listening to this show, you need to reach out to Lisa so that you can create a more inclusive, supportive environment for the women that might be experiencing this. And she will definitely guide you into the supports that would be useful to implement. And if you are somebody that has been going through menopause or perimenopause or postmenopause or, you know, there's lots of different terms and ways of looking at this, then definitely reach out to Lisa. She's fairly local. She's located in Barrie. So it's not too far from where I am in Peterborough. But either way, you know, having professional advice to guide, I think, is useful whenever we're going through any challenge in our life. You know, there's this element of, you know, we can't always read the label from inside the bottle, right? You can't always see for yourself what's happening. So you and myself, we're both kind of like these people standing on the outside of the bottle, helping people read the label and giving them the instructions and they just can't see it themselves. Yeah. Yeah. That's a really great. That's a really great analogy and a good reminder that we were never meant to do this alone. Right. That's right. Oh, there's this narrative and this culture that we live in that you get this badge of honor when you do everything on your own. And that badge does not exist. And we are so much better when we do that together for precisely the reasons you just talked about. We often can't see, you know, from our own fog that we're in. Yeah. So, you know, to recap, we're encouraging you to be able to level, say what you got to say, do what you got to do, have those conversations in the right places and the right times and the right moods and, you know, create the supports for yourself and your life so that you are taking care of you and you are becoming a priority for yourself. And when that happens, it's amazing how some of the symptoms and some of those things start to decrease or become better, isn't it? Yeah. Yes, absolutely. It is. It is the key to moving forward. Right. And you we all deserve to live a life that feels good. It's time. Absolutely. Yes. So, Lisa, tell everybody where to find you. Yeah, well, you can find me pretty much everywhere. So my website is liberatedmenopause.ca. Email is lisa at liberatedmenopause.ca. You can find me on Instagram at L Boat, TikTok at L Boat. I have a Facebook group called From Loss to Liberation, Embracing Life Beyond the Nest. Yes, we do. I'll send you a link. And I have a podcast called Transforming 45, where it's a space for humans to come and share their stories of midlife transformation. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for all the support that you've been giving to your community and, you know, the community at large, like a large community being the world because Facebook and social media can reach a huge platform just like our podcast can. So it's really incredible the work that you do. Thank you so much for your support. Is there anything else that you would like to add? No, just remember that you can feel at home in a body that is in a life that are under renovation. And this is your time. So thank you for making the space today. Thank you. We are so grateful that you joined us today. Tune in again next week, where we have another amazing professional giving you tools and strategies for change. I am your host, Rebecca O'Rourke, and you can find me at cohorzahypnosis.com.