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The Domestic Abuse Breakthrough Show addresses violence against women, youth violence, and the need for early intervention. Guest Nicola Noel discusses the roots of violence, trauma from the womb, and the societal impact on mental health. They highlight the importance of teaching children emotional regulation and suggest that government actions are insufficient and reactive rather than preventative. The conversation emphasizes the need for systemic change to address the underlying issues causing violence in communities. Welcome to the Domestic Abuse Breakthrough Show, where we tackle violence against women and girls through education, empowerment, and hope. Join Kate, a survivor and advocate, as she shares insights, strategies, and stories that inspire healing and action. Together, we'll break the cycle and pave the way for a future of safety and strength. This show contains a trigger warning. And now, here's your host, Kate Beasley. So, welcome back to another episode, and today I am rejoined by the lovely Nicola Noel. Welcome back. Hi, Kate. How are you, my lovely? I'm good, darling. So, today, we are going to tackle the conversation of the horrific situation with the youth violence. And obviously, with Nic, Nic having, obviously, experience working with male offenders, and obviously, you know, having a mental health background as well, I just thought Nic was a great person to get on, to have this conversation with. So, my God, Nic, it's just a mess, isn't it? I mean, that's just, there's no way to beat about the bush here. It's a mess. Yes, so much, so, so much that has gone wrong with the systems, whether that be the schooling system, whether that be the care system, whether that be the medical system. We, as a community, as public, and that includes children and adults, are being frailed so much. However, when we talk about the situation we're talking about, with the escalation of violence and crime and the perpetrators becoming younger, and at the moment, whether that's because, I haven't looked at the figures, so I could have this totally wrong, but whether it's because of the media portrayal, it seems to be young male offenders. In a sense, it is, yes. There actually was one, there was one the other week, which was a, I want to say she was 15, and it was in South Wales, and that was a girl that stabbed two teachers and students. But obviously, as I say, in the main, it is young male offenders. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, there's obviously a broad exception here and there. And so what I found with prisons and working in prisons is, when they're in the system, it's too late. So when I did the work with the UN, and they came in, and they were saying, what do we need? What do we need to do? And I was saying, that's a problem. Here is too late. It starts earlier. And when you, there's a small percentage of people who I will say, there's no explanation. They're definitely just born bad. And I know that's not what people like to hear, or what people like to say, but that's the truth. But there's a very small percentage. The rest of people, even with the most horrendous crimes they've committed that we can think of, when you hear their history, their trauma, you have to say, I don't know what else you were going to be. So when you see their history, you have to say, you can't help but see why they ended up doing what they ended up doing. And the intervention isn't being given at grassroots. No, no. And this is what I keep saying all the time. The only way that we're going to address this problem long term is to address it from the ground up. And it starts as early as when the baby's developing in the womb. It starts then. If mum's experiencing abuse, mum's got her own past traumas, constantly in a hypervigilant state, that's going to have an impact on the baby's overall development, the brain development. They're primed for danger in the womb. When you have a child that's been born and they can't be put down and everything dysregulates them, this is why. This is why. So talking about that, when we talk about hormones, when we talk about neurotransmitters that the baby receives, they are like any other drug. So if we think of a baby that unfortunately would be what we know as a drug baby, the parent, parent and mother has been taking some sort of substances, whether that be alcohol, whether that be, you know, illicit substances, they still have the same effect. So stress, anxiety and all that still have an effect on the baby. And also we have to think about the amount of children that we're seeing at the moment that have a diagnosis of autism or being on the spectrum of constellation, however we want to call it now. But actually what we're seeing is alcohol, fetal alcohol syndrome. Well, and even trauma from the womb, just trauma per se from the womb is what that's all rooted to. That's something I've always, always maintained since I trained, is trauma from the womb. It's no coincidence that we are finding more and more people, children that are receiving these assessments and being labelled as new as ADHD, autism or whatever label they've been assigned. It's no coincidence. We are living in a society that is traumatised. Mental health issues are on an all-time high. Absolutely. It's inevitable. So, you know, is it that we have a society that is all disordered? No, we have a society that is severely traumatised and is not getting the support that they need and the intervention that they need early enough. Yeah. And I guess when we look at the pharmaceutical industry, the pharmaceutical industry is there to make money. All the other things that could be given that don't include the pharmaceutical industry to be able to help us build that resilience, help us be more preventative than cure, isn't being pushed forward. Why would it be? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It serves a purpose to keep you struggling and suffering. As I was saying, I was having a conversation a couple of days ago and I said, tell me, when was the last time that you got your recorder out and played free blind mice? We're doing all these useless things in school, but the things that will teach children some that will help that individual, they're not being taught meditation, they're not being taught breathing techniques, all the sorts of things that we know that a child's brain is malleable, has endless neuroplasticity. Imagine the sorts of brains that you would be creating, the generation, the knowledge that we would be creating if we just put those things into place. The thing is, calm and regulated is not a natural state that we're born knowing how to do. We need to be taught that. If you've got caregivers that are constantly in a hypochondriac state, well, that's what they're mirroring all the time. We need to teach those children how to be calm and regulated, how to manage their own emotions, how to use their own tools to be able to turn that dial down when they feel dysregulated. And again, awareness. A lot of these children don't even have awareness of their own emotions. And that's what they're not being taught. I mean, especially, and I'll come back to boys, it's either happy or angry. It's not even happy or sad. They're not even being taught what sadness can look like, what it can feel like. So I often say, when you see an angry man, what you actually see is a sad man for whatever reasons he's sad for. There needs to be more discussions had. But does it benefit the government in having these discussions, in putting things in place that means that we start getting a better community? Going back to what was formerly known as community. I mean, you know, I would love to give them the benefit of the doubt and hope that, you know, I would think that who would possibly want children to suffer? What sort of person would intentionally, and what sort of government would intentionally want children to suffer, knowing that actually it's actually escalating to the point where children are actually having their lives stolen from them, literally? Well, the evidence would prove that actually, you know, we put that into question. You know, as I said to you before, we came on and started recording. There was, the Home Secretary told LBC she supported knife arches in schools, but who's going to fund it? Well, you can clearly see this as a solution to, I mean, obviously, as we know, this problem runs very much deeper than this. But as a short-term measure, ultimately, you want to make sure that children are not getting through those school doors with a knife or anything they can use as a weapon to take somebody's life or injure somebody severely. Well, that's the only way that we, you can micromanage that, is by having those at the entrances and having bags checked and every student checked before they walk, they come onto the premises. I mean, obviously, it doesn't, that doesn't eliminate the abuse that will be, I mean, obviously, they sugarcoat it as bullying. It's not bullying, it's abuse. That doesn't eliminate that psychological terrorism taking place within school grounds, but it at least means that things can't escalate to the point where somebody's going to lose their life. But, you know, I would have thought that would have been an obvious thing to do. You know, as we said before, it costs them £2 million to investigate a murder. Every time the police go out, it costs them on average £1,500 every call-out. They are wasting money left, right and centre. And as a result, still lives being lost. So it's not as though they're, I mean, it's a bit like, obviously, similar with the NHS, as we know. They waste so much money on cutting corners. And actually, they're not getting anywhere for it. There's no relief that's coming from it. They're wasting so much money. And this is what's happening all round. It's a false economy that's happening wherever we're looking. Police, government, schools, NHS. It's just false economy. People are being failed and this is what's resulting in it. So, let's look at them with their acknowledging that there needs to be knife arches in schools and there needs to be more bad virtues. But they're not doing anything preventative or they're not putting the money into it. It's like, there was a big talk when we had the King's Speech and they were going to be putting money into mental health and mental health services. And I said, oh my God, what do you think? And I said, I'll believe it when I see it. Exactly what I say to all these things as well, Meg. Yeah. And then, I mean, we're some time on and the scandals keep coming, but I don't hear anything towards what's being done towards mental health, the money that's being put in, you know. How concerned are they really about children losing their lives? About how this has a ripple effect? They've removed, and not just, you know, this has been going on for quite a few years now, but they've removed key pillars of the community. So, we don't have youth clubs anymore. We don't have the leaders in the community like we used to have anymore. So, whether you find them at a youth club or any sort of youth project that's happening. They've started to remove all these individuals and have done for quite some time. So, where do kids go? Well, they go to where it's glorified. And where is it glorified? It's glorified within gangs and gang culture. Exactly. Yeah. Because where, you know, the community's not going to look after you, but where your community now we're going to look after you. Yeah. And this is it. You know, these children have self-esteem issues, abandonment issues. And this is why they end up getting involved with the wrong groups. Because they're looking for that sense of belonging. So, it means engaging in things that genuinely, ordinarily, they don't agree with. If it means sacrificing and being made to feel as though they're being rejected and being abandoned and not worthy of being part of their friend group, they're not willing to sacrifice that. That represents the greatest pain of all to them. They will do whatever it takes to avoid feeling that pain. It's a ripple effect. And the things they'll do, as we're now seeing, with the escalation in violence and violence against women and children. Yeah. Yeah. Abusive, coercive control. This is the norm. And it goes back to everything that I keep saying all the time is that abuse is so normalised in society. It's normalised amongst our children. And unless we educate them as to what is acceptable and not acceptable and what is abuse and what does constitute the crime, how on earth are they supposed to know? Yeah. They're not supposed to know that. And actually, this is something that needs to be reinforced repeatedly with them. You know, age appropriate, of course. But it needs to start from very, very young ages with an age appropriate delivery and reinforce every single academic year so that it isn't forgotten. It isn't ignored. It needs to be a repeated thing that they're teaching these children. And again, you know, it needs to be a regular... I mean, it would serve them so... I mean, one thing the schools care about is their academic achievements, their academic reputation. Well, if you care so much about your academic performance, you would get a better result if you made the children's mental health a priority because they will attain information better and they will recall information better. A child that is dysregulated, operating from the emotional part of the brain, as we know, thinking brains offline is not going to... It's not there. You can be teaching away and they're not going to be taking anything in. Well, you know, when emotions are high, intelligence is low. Exactly. Yeah, and then the more they drift further and further behind academically, the more those internal wounds and those internal self-dialogue and negative self-talk is highlighted more and more. And the more they feel inadequate, the worse this problem is going to get. Yeah. It's a circle. It just compounds and compounds and compounds. Yeah. Yeah. As they just intervene, if they would just... But we have, say, one to two generations of parents who don't know how to parent properly. No, no. Who have never been taught. But at the moment, they're afraid to discipline their children. I mean, there's so many parents that are afraid of their own children. Yes. Yes. Yeah, because they trigger their wounds. So it's easier just to give in. It's easier to let them get away with that behaviour. Yeah. And I understand it. Don't get me wrong, I totally get it. You know, and us having the background that we've had with children, we've experienced that. So we understand it. But also, they're not being given the support there are they? Because when you look at what happens in schools, when something's maybe not going right within the child's journey in school, the first thing is punctured parenting course. It can't possibly be because, actually, the child's not thriving in that environment, whether because there's additional needs or there's an additional diagnosis that needs to be met. But parents are often met with, it's your fault, rather than, how can we help you? How can we support you to change that environment to help the child, the father, grow accordingly? Yeah. Yeah. Not trying to change the child, but changing the environment. And there seems to be so little places that are willing to do that now, that are willing to help people create the change that's needed. Yeah. Yeah. So we're just going to break for a short interval, and we shall continue this conversation when we get back. Hello. TK Health Radio. The station that makes you feel good. 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As long as that maladaptive behaviour gets them whatever result they want in mind, you know, they'll continue to do it. And, you know, I suppose to a certain degree, like I disagree with you, because I do think to have, right, so I think the problem at the moment is that children don't have any fear. So I think it's good to have, when I say a healthy amount of fear, you should be careful of what your parents might, when I say might think. As in, if you do something that's blatantly wrong, you shouldn't be like, oh, well, it's, no, no, no, you should be, and that's... No respect. Yeah, there's lack of respect. And what I'm not saying, for all the listeners, is that fear equals respect. That's not what I'm saying. No, it does not. Perpetrators, that's what perpetrators, in their minds, if somebody fears them, in their minds, they translate that as, well, I'm affected. And the two are very different. Yeah, very, very. Yeah, that's not respect. Very different. But they, they, they're not being taught to have respect. Equally, through, over the, over the years, more and more parents' rights have been taken away. Yeah. To the point where they're no longer allowed to chastise their child. I'm going to say chastise, I don't mean get about out and start beating your child. You know exactly what I mean. But, you know, discipline their child. Yeah. Parents get dragged on eggshells because they're fearful of the local authorities and getting them on end of the stick and being accused of abusing their children. Yeah. You literally walk on eggshells, yeah. Yeah. And what we're doing is, I say we, I certainly didn't, but what I'm seeing is we're raising weak generations, weak generations because, and Carol Dweck speaks about this in her book Mindset, weak generation as in they have to be, have employee of the month. They have to have, you know, employee of the week. They have to have a pat on the back for turning up to work. You are doing your job. They are not building. They are not creating any sort of resilience. So when something goes wrong, so let's take it back to our original topic of conversation about the rise in violence against women and children. So essentially when a boy or a man is told no, their ego is so wounded because they haven't had the resilience, they haven't had to face adversity, what happens? Oh, you told me no. Yeah. How dare you? Me? I'm going to show you because I've had positive parenting where we say don't do that. There's no actual consequences like smacking a puppy on the nose or spraying a cat with a water bottle. None of that. It's just, we don't do that. Yeah. And so therefore they feel that they're entitled to and they, and you see more and more with the lack of respect in the young adult, and I won't, let's go past the young adult. I'm talking about children who are being feral. However, when we go to the schools or whatnot, they're not being given the help and support that they need to actually be able to learn those parenting skills because if they weren't parenting correctly, they have no idea. But rather than people stepping in to break the cycle and help them, they're being punished. So they're not going to come forward. And then that tells them to continue with that behavior. And then we end up with risky males and females. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, they're seeking that dopamine hit, aren't they? through risky behavior all the time, and that goes for both sides. Yeah. I mean, I know we, I mean, if you've got, I mean, it's not uncommon. I was only speaking to somebody the other day about this. It's not uncommon for young girls to be drawn to older men because boys their own age aren't, they're too mature for them. I mean, that's been like that since we were kids. You know, I mean, we were always attracted to older boys. It's just the way it is. But, you know, those girls will be attracted to the risky behavior, the dopamine hit. Because they're conditioned for that. That's what they're conditioned to. Their whole childhood has been conditioned for disrespect. That's normal to their nervous system. So then they get involved with the bad boy. They're getting that dopamine hit. Intelligently, they may think, oh, well, I actually don't like the behavior, but I can fix them. Yeah. So the body's still getting that dopamine hit, that dopamine high. And it's like any drug. It is a drug. Dopamine is a drug in itself. Yeah. Yeah. And the more they get it, the more they want it. Exactly. Exactly. And it's replacing what people always forget is, it's like with any addiction. We've got to replace that dopamine hit, that dopamine force, with something healthy. And that's where the mindfulness and the mental health exercises and the regulation exercises, that's where they come in. That is your healthy source of dopamine. Yeah. I mean, even putting your headphones on and listening to positive, uplifting music, that can be your positive source of dopamine. And if you dance around the room with your headphones on, you know, that can be your source of dopamine. And switching off from the world and zoning out that in a chapter that's going on. But we need to replace it. Yeah. And even getting them out doing exercise, doing sports, doing something, you know, together with their peers. Like, they spend so much time with screens, which is more than half the problem, because that's where they're getting access to information as well. So they spend so much time in an alternate universe, so to speak, that a lot of them are not in touch with reality. Yeah. Well, some schools, and I know there's some private schools, they insist upon in secondary school, they have to have a laptop in school. They have to have a phone in school. I'm sorry, but why do they need a phone in school? They're within your care. Why do they need a phone in school? They don't need a phone in school. And it's just encouraging that behaviour, encouraging them to Google, play time, break time, all sorts. And this is where they're being exposed to, you know, whether it be, I mean, you can guarantee it'll be taking place. The boys will be going on the phones, and they'll be bringing up porn, and they'll be sitting there together, watching porn movies, even though it'll be happening. And that's the scary thing, because it's not, you can put all the security, you know, restrictions on there, but there's still ways of, and they're smart enough to know how to bypass it. Well, this is it. This is it. It is, you know, the knife arch is managing the escalation on school grounds. Yes. It doesn't deal with the overall problem as to why this is happening in the first place. You know, and these kids leave school. They don't just, you know, once they leave school, you can't micromanage that. I mean, Christ, there was a 12-year-old that was stabbed by a 14-year-old the other week on walking home from school, wasn't there? You know, the knife arch isn't going to resolve that problem. I mean, they could quite easily hide knives in places outside school grounds, and go through the knife arch and not be detected, get off school grounds, and then do whatever they intend to do. All it's doing is micromanaging some of the escalation, and reducing the opportunities for escalation to take place. But ultimately, we need to deal with the root cause of this, and it starts with education, and nurturing, and taking care of their mental health, and making it a priority. And that's the thing, they don't want to acknowledge. So actually, since COVID, kids' children's mental health has absolutely, I mean, along with adults, but children more so, we are looking at generations of children who do not know how to interact, who do not know how to behave, who no longer know social norms. It's quite scary, and it's scary, the amount of resources. And we know this, we know we have a problem because of the lack of socialisation during COVID. And to a certain extent, that hasn't returned to a lot of things that shut down during COVID hasn't returned. Whether it's high street shops, whether it's, you know, community groups, or so forth, they haven't returned. That lack of socialisation really did a lot of damage. I mean, it did a lot of damage for everybody. But more so, the children need that social interaction. And I know we heard a lot of where kids were, you know, I mean, obviously, we know it takes place anyway, but there was a rise in kids abusing their parents during lockdown because of that sheer frustration of, well, I want to go and see my friends. And I want to, or I want to be going to football club, I want to be going to dance class, or whatever club they were doing. Everything stopped, their routines, kids thrive on routines. Every professional talks about this, that children and care, and safeguarding, children thrive on routines. Well, they were deprived of that. And that's come at a price. And let's be honest, I think it's definitely, since then, we've seen a rise in these violent acts. I mean, it would still been there, but I think we've seen a rise in it since lockdown. During lockdown, the rates of homicide escalated and the rates of violence against women and children, especially in the home, because that's where they were, skyrocketed to the point where it wasn't unmanageable. It was very manageable before, but it's definitely unmanageable. And what lockdown also brought to the forefront is the amount of people in positions of power. So whether they be in police service, armed forces, fire service, prison service, that were actually perpetrators of crime. We're just going to break for another short interval and we'll see you after the break. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. 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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. 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