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The speaker discusses the importance of embracing one's shadow self and doing shadow work. They explain that by not acknowledging and working through our subconscious triggers and patterns, we limit our human experience and hinder personal growth. They emphasize that shadow work is necessary for authenticity, attracting positive experiences, and understanding our choices and actions. The speaker also explores the concept of shame and how denying our shadow side leads to suffering and resentment. They argue that accepting both our good and bad traits is crucial for personal development and unity among individuals. They criticize the divisive nature of politics and media, highlighting the need to acknowledge our own biases and perspectives. The speaker concludes that shadow work is essential in order to see beyond the surface and understand the deeper aspects of ourselves and others. I wonder how imperative it is to start with it. And we're back. Yes. We cut out. Yeah. What I was going to say is by not accepting your shadow self and doing that shadow work, you're really limiting your human experience, the depths that it could be, the horizons that you could experience because you're stuck in one mode. Exactly. Yeah. You're only seeing the world through a limited lens. And I feel like shadow work is a requirement, really, to not only to your authenticity but to attracting the right people into your life or attracting the right experiences. I know I kind of already touched on this, but a lot of times we look at our life like it's happening to us. Like, oh my God, this partner is not meeting my needs or this job is not fulfilling me. And it's like, okay, we chose these things. In most cases, unless you're literally being held captive, you are making choices in your life that lead to your current situation. And those choices, if they're being made by a subconscious trigger or driver that is hiding parts of itself from you, then it would only make sense that the life around you is a shit show. Like, if you're not conscious of it, you don't even know why you're not happy. Yeah. If you don't take the time to do the work, you're going to be living a life that isn't yours. And I think a lot of people, it feels daunting, like, oh my God, I have to go through my whole childhood and all of this stuff. It feels like an immeasurable task to undo 90% of your mind. But a lot of these things all boil down to central topics and patterns, like a perfectionism quality or a trait likely feeds in to your work and your relationship and your relationship with yourself. And so a lot of these shadow traits, they're not ever going to just stop coming up. Our subconscious mind is part of who we are. We are a logical human in this physical body with a brain that is connected to this experience. And we are also spirit. We are also a being that knows beyond time and space, that senses and feels the world around us and then makes decisions based on primal instincts and feelings that we could never logically understand. So we are both. So we have to bring them together. We have to bring together the things we learned subconsciously and use it for good. And then we have to make logical decisions. But not knowing why you're making a decision makes all the difference. If you can know, yeah, I'm doing this thing and I know it's because I'm judging myself harshly, but like, that's okay. I don't want to, I just, this is your choice right now and I don't want to do the work. But if you can be consciously aware that you're doing something out of a pattern or habit and you know it's not in your highest alignment, but also like, I'm just a human. I just want to have fun today. So I don't care if it's not good for me. I do that all the time because it's like, yeah, sometimes we don't have to do the right thing. Right. We just have to do the thing that feels right. And sometimes what feels right, it's going to be a little toxic or like, and like we have to be able to say, okay, when is it that big of a deal? Like what's important to me and when do I need to be hard on myself and hold myself accountable? And when do I have to just like let go? And like, but just still being aware that you're doing that I think is important because then you can be real with yourself and be honest because subconsciously we know why we're doing it. So if we do something from a shadow aspect and we're not aware of it or not even if we're, if we're aware of it and don't admit that we're aware of it, then that's when we start judging ourselves. Then that's when we start to feel guilty. Even though we don't logically feel guilty, if there's a part of us that knows we're acting out of alignment, but we're trying to pretend like we're not, then that's just the fight between us and us. Like that's just, but that's the worst kind of fight because it doesn't ever have to resolve. You have no one to please. So you just hold that resentment inside. If you're acting out of alignment and you don't want to admit that, it really creates a lot of, yeah, inner resentment that creates a lot of shame and shame is like the worst emotion that a human can really feel. I forgot where I was reading this, but it was talking about how shame is a lot different than guilt because shame is towards self. Like it's, I actually shouldn't speak on it because I don't remember enough about it, but I just know for myself, like any times where I've felt shame, it feels, it's such a constricting feeling. Like if you feel like, like so hard on yourself about something, it's like nobody else probably could ever feel that way about you. Like I don't think that shame can really come from anybody else. Like even if someone is upset at you for doing something, it's still your belief about that that creates the shame. So like if someone, if you let somebody down, then they can be upset about that, but it's really your belief that you should make everybody happy or that you need to live up to everyone's expectations and you didn't, that creates the shame. So it's like the belief about ourself that just like, I'm not worth more than this moment or whatever that creates like so much pain and suffering. And I think a lot of that comes from denying parts of ourselves, denying that we are like fallible, fallible? I don't know. That we're, yeah. Yeah. And that denying the shadow side creates all of the suffering, the shadow side is not creating the suffering, it's the denying or the resistance to the shadow side. And I think that we are almost like, it doesn't even really matter what the shadow is. In our society, we're kind of conditioned to look at life in a dualistic way of like there's good and there's evil. And even if you don't have a religious upbringing or whatever, like we're taught good and bad. And so if you don't acknowledge that really this life is on a spectrum and everything has its good and its bad side, that we are good and evil in a way. I mean, I don't really believe in evil and I, well, whatever, that's another topic. Like if we are trained to not acknowledge that we have both sides, then naturally we're not going to accept that about ourselves. We're going to say, no, I'm good, therefore I don't have bad traits. But that's not realistic. Like that's what causes us to feed into cancel culture when we look at, oh, well, that politician is only supposed to be supporting all of these good things in society. So if they do something bad, then we can't cope with that, then they got to be canceled. Because like they did something bad, so they're bad, like, well, no, we're all human and we do good things and we do bad things. So no matter who you are, you are not exempt from that. And so it's not really, to me, dangerous, like dangerous people, or people aren't necessarily dangerous because they do dangerous things. I think the most dangerous people are those who don't admit that they have that within them. Like it's people that can't acknowledge that they could do something harmful. They have bad thoughts about themselves, about other people, that they're judgmental. It's like the people that are concerning to me are the ones that can't acknowledge the shadow, acknowledge that they have this thing that they judge in other people. And we really see that in our culture, and especially in politics right now. There is such a divide of the right seeing all of the negative things about the left and vice versa, as if they don't both have those traits. Like the right will say the left is selfish because of this thing, while they are selfish because of this thing. And then the left saying that the right just wants to control this thing, while they want to control this thing. So it's like we all have the desire to control humans. It helps us stay safe, or feel safe. So we all have the need to control. That's the original form. Now how you express that need for control is going to depend. Are you on the right? Are you on the left? Do you come from this background or this background? Do you have kids? Do you not have kids? So there's so many variables, but ultimately we all want to control. And so accepting that fact means that you have to stop expecting other people to not want to control, and accept that we're all going to want these things, they're going to come from different perspectives, but it doesn't make you more right. It doesn't make someone else more right. It means that we all have a different perspective. And so it's this demonizing of the other side, as if we don't have that thing ourselves, that creates so much division. It doesn't mean you have to agree with the other person. We can both coexist in our righteousness, but to look at your opinion or your perspective as holier than thou doesn't make any sense to me. It never really has. I've always questioned, and I don't subscribe to politics at all. I literally have no affiliation whatsoever, but I think I've always asked, like if you're watching the news, Fox and CNN, how are there two sides of the truth? Like if you have subject matter experts, physicians, and professors, and theologians, or whatever, of the best of the best, the best schools that have all these statistics that back up your point, and then CNN has the same exact set of circumstances, subject matter experts, well obviously Ivy League schools, then how do you have two drastically separate points? Like it doesn't make any sense to me, so it is about perception. You can find facts to back up anything you want, so it's like what resonates with you? Stop demonizing the other person as if you don't have the same traits. I think it still all feeds into shadow work. The shadow is dangerous whenever we don't want to acknowledge that the thing we're judging in someone else is within us. That's all that we're seeing is just a shadow nightmare on TV, whenever we're looking at that. This person judging this person, but not willing to see, hey, stop looking at the minutia of all of the shit going on. Just at face value, they want to feel safe. You want to feel safe? Yes, you also want to feel safe. We both want to feel safe. We have different ways for going on that path. Ultimately, we want the same things. We're never going to agree on how that makes sense. I don't know the solution to that. I'm not saying I have the answer, but I think that that's why even really smart people, I think, are missing the mark because they're expecting to just be able to convince someone of their side, instead of acknowledging that we all have a struggle, we all have our tendencies. Stop denying that you just want to control the narrative. It's not someone that I don't agree with. That's my problem. The problem I have is when someone doesn't want to admit that that's what they're doing. You just want things to go your way. That's what we all want, but anyway, let's have a side tangent. The shadow is controlling everybody. The fact that they could be wrong, for some people, can be really scary because then you're questioning a lot of other things in your life, so it's better to avoid that. It's funny because me and my brother were talking about shadow work last week on the phone, and people that we know that did work on that, yeah, I could see how it's a scary thing, but the more that you repress it, the scarier that monster may seem. I think if we all did some shadow work and accepted those parts of ourselves and that we could be wrong and that there are places for us to grow, then we're going to be more forgiving of ourselves and more forgiving for our fellow human, and then we can kind of chill out a little bit. Right. Well, because I think that a lot of people want to change everybody else, and there's a place for that archetype in our society, for the person that's out there protesting and changing policies, those people are needed, but I think in general, trying to change someone's mind is a big waste of energy. I think that people ... There's a question on what is the one thing that would change the world? If you could change one thing, what would that be to make the world a more cohesive, better place? I feel like, oh, like eliminating poverty or fresh water to everybody, and sure, those things would be great, but ultimately, if there's not a shift in the consciousness of people, that would never happen anyways. If you wanted to get fresh water to everybody or food to everybody, you would have to have enough people that believe everyone deserves fresh water, everyone deserves food, our money should go towards that. You have to have enough people that can see the humanity in someone on the other side of the world that doesn't have fresh water. It requires an evolution of consciousness. It requires an understanding that we are all truly one, that we all come from the same source. I mean, that's my belief. I think that the only way you evolve your consciousness is by doing this kind of work. You don't even have to call it shadow work if you don't want to. If you're building your self-awareness and increasing your authenticity of becoming more whole, of becoming more of who you actually are, you're only going to do that through acknowledging your subconscious mind. If people don't do that, people don't change. You don't do something different unless you believe it's going to benefit you. Your beliefs are formed from the subconscious mind. Even if you want to change your beliefs, you still have to change something within you that believes it's going to be good for you. I think that evolving your consciousness individually is your greatest gift to the world. You say, I'm just one person, but the world is made up of a bunch of one person. Didn't they say, be the change you want to see in the world? Right, Gandhi. I was thinking Michael Jackson, so I'm glad it was Gandhi. You could be right. I don't know. Probably Gandhi. I'm pretty sure it's Gandhi. Anyway, yeah. Really, we only have control over ourselves, and we can't control others. We can only change ourselves for the better. I think if we all worked on that and became conscious and asked ourselves those uncomfortable questions and worked towards improvement, the world would be such a better place. For sure. I think that there's another saying, I don't know it exactly, but the point is that if you really are honest with yourself, a lot of times wanting to change someone else is just avoiding changing yourself. If you're in a relationship and you are trying to change the other person after their actions have already showed you that that's just not who they are, even if someone wants to be a certain way, but if they're not changing, this is who they are. Instead of changing yourself to say, okay, I need to stand up for myself and say, this isn't working for me, or whatever, instead of becoming a person that has clear boundaries and enforces their needs or just goes somewhere else with their needs, I'm just going to focus on the other person instead of just becoming the person I should be that respects myself. I think you don't want to accept the truth that the fantasy you have in your mind may possibly be false. Oh, sure. I think you have to accept that and then ask yourself those hard questions and then make yourself do the hard choices of setting the boundaries or whatever, but you want to keep pushing that idea because you don't want to accept that you could be wrong about that. Right. Yeah. I think accepting that we're wrong, accepting that we were living an illusion, I think that creates a level of shame, too, which shouldn't because that's who we are as humans. I think a lot of times we don't want to know the truth because then that means we either have to act on that, new knowing, or now we have to knowingly live in a lie, and that's why we don't really want to face the truth because we don't want to be faced with our awareness of, you know you're not doing the right thing, or, yeah, the fantasy is just easier. Fantasy is way easier. So I think, yeah, I think focusing on ourselves first is not selfish, it's necessary. Absolutely. Yeah, and I think that a lot of people have received the message that when you focus on yourself it's selfish or you're self-serving or whatever, but really if I don't know myself, I can't even ask for what I really need or want. If I don't know myself from all corners of my psyche, I'm not offering the world an authentic version of myself, therefore I can't get what I want and I can't even be real with you, so then I'm going to be projecting expectations onto you or holding resentment in because my boundaries are being crossed that I never even stated. So, I mean, I just think if someone's trying to change the world, and a lot of people are, and everyone I think wants to make a positive difference, and whatever that difference is can be in addition to you knowing yourself. The more that you know yourself, the more you can show up for the world, and if you don't know yourself, then you're going to ultimately end up miserable, I think, in some way, or end up just repressing that misery. I think that some people are meant to come to this life and not meant to work on themselves. I don't think everyone, if it was supposed to be everyone's healed and happy, then it wouldn't be earth. You know, I don't think so, but I think that if you're on the self-healing growth journey, which most likely if anyone's interested in this podcast, they are, then if your gift to the world is to discover these parts of yourself, your gift is to be more of yourself, you cannot do that without the shadow art. And what a beautiful gift that is, though, you know, to bring the best of you to the world and what an impact that can make, because you know, they say there's only one you, and only you can do it your way. That's beautiful. It's true. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. So don't, you know, spare the world from your uniqueness. I know. We need it. We do. So you can fully be present and authentic with who you are and what you're giving to others. Yeah. Yeah. That's really nice. Shadow work. Woo! So I brought my alchemy oracle cards. Okay. I think we should look at that. Yeah. And so what Julie and I talked about was incorporating different tools. We're both really into spirituality and different practices. And a big goal of ours is to demystify some of these things and bring them into our just everyday awareness and other people's awareness. I think that sometimes it feels like you either have to be like spiritual and meditating all the time, or you have like a regular life and do regular things. But I think the best way to use spirituality or to co-create with spirituality is to integrate it into our lives, just like we integrate the shadow. And so for anyone who's not aware of what oracle cards are, tarot cards are, again, I would assume most of you have at least a little bit of understanding, but they're just divination tools. And the cards aren't magic. You're the magic. It's your intuition. And just like our actions are driven by subconscious factors, the subconscious is a part of us that is a lot deeper than what we're consciously aware of with our human senses. And so whenever you work with any divination tool, whether it's cards or runes or pendulums, it's a way for your intuition to communicate through you. And so I think I even, in my spiritual journey, cards were kind of one of the last things I ventured into because I had subconscious programming around, oh, that's witchcraft or whatever. But now it's a tool I use all the time, like for me and people that I'm close to. And it just, it never stops blowing my mind because I even out of hundreds, about hundreds of readings and pull hundreds of cards. So I know already that it's a tried and true practice, but still I'll get the card that makes perfect sense. And it's just like, every time it's exciting. But I've come to know that, yeah, the cards are paper and they're illustrated and authored by brilliant people that deliver a great message. But ultimately I'm the one selecting the cards or not really. I shuffle them and then when one flies out, that's the card that I take. And I don't believe that there's a spirit in the room that's extracting the card. I believe it's on a deeper level. I know what cards are in here. I know where to shuffle and how to move them in a way that if I'm removing my ego from the equation and I'm not overthinking it, I just allow myself to be with the energy, I will pull out the right card when it's necessary. There's lots of studies on this too about people that work with pendulums, how there is a sudden shift in the mind and in the body that happens before you make a conscious choice that proves there is something operating within us that is calling the shots without our awareness. So it's not that something magical is necessarily happening out there, it's that I somehow inside know when to stop shuffling and then ask the right card. So anyways, I have a deck that is specifically about alchemy, which is about the transformation of the psyche if we look at it psychologically. We wanted to incorporate cards into the podcast by sometimes maybe we'll choose cards at the beginning and they'll set the scene for the conversation because there's hundreds and hundreds of decks, hundreds of cards, and whenever you interpret them together, they can have a certain meaning. And so then we can maybe just improv conversations off the cards or like today, just felt more aligned to pull a card at the end and just kind of see what message comes out, either does it have a clothing message or it might spark something new, we're just kind of open to seeing how it goes. It's not always going to be this deck, but the alchemy deck felt fitting today by Kim Cram is one of my favorites, she's an incredible artist and author of the guidebook that goes with the cards. But anyways, so we're just going to do a little shuffle and they're hexagonal cards, so they're a little tricky to shuffle, but the artwork and the book that comes with the cards is amazing. She puts so much work into her deck, she has another deck, her alchemy, I mean not alchemy, her archetype deck is one of my all-time favorites. And Oracle decks are different than tarot cards because Oracle decks can be created by anybody. Like Julie and I could create an Oracle deck where we say, we want to have 50 cards, it's going to be about the planet, the nature, and we're going to create a story with these cards and then we'll create a book that's like, okay, the first card is a snake card and the snake represents this for us. So if you pull this card, this is your message from spirit that you're going through a period of transformation or whatever. And so then we'll write the guidebook to explain the cards and then whoever buys those cards can play with them in whatever way they want and then they can read the guidebook when they select the right card. Okay, but we could totally do that. Oh, yeah. That's a good idea. For sure, I would love to. Well, I have, you can, like even anybody can just order blank cards on Amazon. I've done this. Oh, cool. They're super cheap. I ordered like 78 cards. It's used blank tarot cards or whatever. So they're just kind of like the right size and texture and you just write random stuff on them. So I bought two of them. So it was like almost like a, you know, 160 or something cards and I would write random stuff on them and then you just use them like you would Oracle cards. So then they're my own Oracle cards. Cool. And so I use them to like clarify other cards. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it really is like, why not? Yeah. It doesn't have to be fancy, but it would be cool to come up with like a fancy deck. Oh, yeah. But like, so you can buy an Oracle deck for anything. It could be an astrology Oracle deck, a nature Oracle deck, or it could be, Julie got me a sacred cycle. It's all about the feminine cycles of life, Oracle deck, an angel Oracle deck, so all about the different angels. So anything. Yeah. It's just a way for you to learn to work with your intuition and don't have to, you don't have to believe that you're a psychic to work with cards. I had that belief for sure that like, oh, only mediums are mediums, only psychics are psychics. But yeah. No. There's actually been- We all have that magic. Right. There's actually been studies done. Maybe we can go into another time. They took a course about it with the Institute of Noetic Sciences. There's been studies done about psychic abilities or any kinds of mediumship, and the study found that it wasn't a specific gene that like designated whether you were a psychic or not. It was actually the absence of the gene that meant you didn't have the ability, meaning like let's say there was 100 people, 10 people said they didn't believe they had any non-psychic abilities. They were expecting for the 90 people that all said they had psychic abilities to have a similar gene. But what they found was the 10 people who said they didn't have psychic abilities had the same mutated gene. Interesting. So that means the exception to the rule is to not have psychic abilities. We all are born with an innate intuitive ability. That means you can ... It's like a muscle. You work with it. You can make it better, make it bigger. So yeah. You're all ... Everyone is capable. Everyone can do it. Everything comes with practice, obviously. But we're just going to pull an alchemy card and just see what message wants to come through from ... Ooh. That was too many. Actually, that one. I like that. Yeah. Yeah. So ... Oh, shit. Okay. Well, we're going to take these two. It was this one. I know. But he pulled out two and he felt very persistent. Okay. I can read whatever you pull if you'd like. Okay. So we have coagulation and Neptune. Coagulation. Oh, so coagulation is ... I had to learn how to read Roman numerals to use this deck. So L is 50. So this should be 50, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 60, 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