Ruwa

The individual describes facing challenges related to being falsely accused and detained, having their passport taken, and being denied an ID by the government. They discuss the impact of legal proceedings on their life and express a sense of defiance against unfair systems and the prioritization of power over people globally. The speaker emphasizes the importance of fighting for human rights despite the costs and challenges, highlighting the need to challenge systems of oppression and corruption that hinder the dignity and opportunities of individuals. and the people of the rest of it, but I also strongly sympathize with the people that went to give solidarity after they were denied bail, and there were quite a number of arrests. That happened to the people that were given? Absolutely, which is like the criminalization of solidarity, so that you know you can further isolate people that have been arrested in politically motivated cases. People are afraid to come around because they're afraid what happened to you can happen to us. So I make inferences to this in particular because we were tagged as having participated in that, and the real reason why that was the case was you abducted people, you were holding them for eight hours, they were unaccounted for, and now you need to release them. So you need something to say, you know, all that drama that you were, you know, you need to justify, so you just say to the police, say move for something to stick on those people, and the police ultimately say, you know, we're going to to say you were part of that group, because it's a large group, so you are also you were a part of that group on the 27th, and I think for me in particular it became problematic for them because in the period in question, I was in two different jurisdictions, so I'd gone to Germany, then I went to Africa, and I only came back on the 28th. Now what didn't help my cause was the people that abducted us took my passport, and they've never returned it since, so it was going to be so easy to just produce their passport and say this is where it was stamped, that was out of the country. So inasmuch as we gave them plane tickets, we gave them etc, and to the point where Airlink and Fastjet, the two airlines that were involved in this, to the point to which they wrote to the courts in this country to say that we have checked the passenger manifest, and indeed this person actually boarded those flights on the same date, so they could not have been in that jurisdiction. But that whole trial has continued until like now, it's still going on, like there's still a lot of legal proceedings. So I think just to reflect on a lot of things that have happened, a lot of stuff has happened, including at some point I was denied an ID by the government. They said that I was on a stop list, so I could not get services from the government. I was denied getting a new passport at some point, which they said I was on a stop list, and I'm fortunate with excellent lawyers from British Air that worked for me to be able to get those particular documents. And I think that the ID for me, it hit hard because that's my right as a citizen, right? I mean with the passport, it could be argued that you're flight risk, you know, you want to use the passport. But I mean with an ID, because I think the legal argument that the police, sorry, that the lawyers gave to the registrar was, even if I was a convicted person in prison and I asked for an ID, the state has an obligation to give me the ID. So you can't say that, oh because you're an activist or like you're in bad books with the state, then because of that you are not going to get an ID, you are on a stop list. And I think it cascades now to a trial in which also what we discovered was immigration, when they were asked to confirm whether or not I was in the country at the time, they were saying that they had no record of entry and exit. Conveniently they had no, I mean what kind of an immigration does not keep records of who enters and who exits the country? So I think in my case there was a soul-crushing effect of watching the state operators, you know like I look at myself and I'm like I'm a person, I'm just a girl, I'm a girl, I'm just a girl, right? And I'm like how is that like a whole immigration of a country, a whole intelligence system of a country, you know, a whole intelligence system of a country, you know, is coming down heavy, like it's piling up, you know, they even call immigration, hey can you just say that like we have no record of entry or exit into the country. So I think just watching that level of collusion, that level of those different departments working together opened me up to this realization that I think first of all sometimes we don't play the power that we have to shape a system, but I think also fundamentally it just shows the extent to which a lot of systems of injustice are willing to go to do, you know, injustice, you know, to oppress. And I think for me the thing that also is a big thing is the fact that you are lying about something that the South African jurisdiction can easily confirm, you're also lying about something that the German jurisdiction can easily confirm that I was in their territory. You know, is there not a part of the state that, you know, that has enough rationality to say when we stand in the body of nations and we treat our citizens this way and we lie about things that other jurisdictions can easily confirm, it's not a good standing for us. But I think it just then shows the level of disregardedness that, you know, the state simply does not care. It is indifferent and in any case it trivializes, you know, the life of people. It trivializes the citizens, which I think is the core of a lot of human rights abuses, you know, when it has become deeply entrenched in a system that, you know, those people, I mean, in Shona we say, you know, it doesn't matter, it's not a biggie, it's not a big deal. When it becomes entrenched at the core of a system that a citizen doesn't really matter, that you can just abduct them, you can just lie, you can just twist up a story. When it becomes deeply entrenched, anything that comes out of a system that does not honor, you know, the citizen, that does not honor the rights of the citizen, anything that comes out of that, you know, is never a good thing. So I think we have sort of touched on a lot of questions that we have, but maybe just before we wrap up, how are you feeling? How are you doing? So I think the natural instinctive response is to say I'm fine. I think that's what everybody does as a default. But I feel, you know, tired at times, but it's not, it's not an internal exhaustion, it's a physical exhaustion, and I think it's predominantly because sometimes you're stuck in a lot of proceedings. You interact, you intercede with a lot of proceedings, legal proceedings, you know, but you also have your own work, you have your own life, you have your own academics, you have your, like, there's so much happening that, you know, that's just purely stuff to do with you and your life. But I think you add that into the mix of all the legal proceedings. But I think at a deeper human level and a core, I do feel a deeper sense of defiance. I think it's a deeper sense of defiance that emanates from the knowledge that, you know, it's not a lie. It's not a lie that we are at this moment in the history of humanity living in a world where there is a movement, literally a global movement of bad leadership. It's not a lie that, you know, when I have heard stories, like, you know, I was listening to bonsai from Kenya and Hakata from Uganda, you know, I was listening to experiences and it felt so familiar, you know, it's not a lie that those things happen. It's also not a lie that the world has gradually tilted in the direction of power over people. And it does not matter where you look, be it in the West, be it in the, you know, in the global majority, there has been this gradual shift towards the prioritization of power over people. This is the, this is how the world is moving. And I think the sense of defiance is, it's something that is both insane, it's stupid. But I think something that is also very necessary, insane in the sense that for you to advocate for human rights in a world where things have swung in favor of power, and particularly power that does not honor human rights, for you to go in that direction means you're going against the current. And that's like stupid, stupid to go against the current. But I think ultimately, that feeling of defiance is fundamentally important. Because these are our lives, man, like this is this is life. This is here. You know, and we don't get a redo, we don't get a retake, we're here. And we deserve to live lives that are dignified. You know, we deserve to live lives that have opportunity and that have potential. And not to have that siphoned, you know, out of our infrastructure, by individuals who have a very feudalistic mindset that are creating social strata, you know, that means that, you know, the poor will always be poor, and you destroy a middle class and you create feudal royalty in systems of oppression, tyranny, and corruption. And no matter what you do, even if you work hard, the system does not work, the system will not reward you. And it almost seems like doing good also carries within itself a punishment. It's a system that makes it hard to be a good citizen, to be a good person. And I think that what's fundamentally important is to challenge that. So we could accept the world that is given to us. And I think in our case, especially as young people, it would be accepting a world that is given to us, but is fundamentally smeared with indignity that we have to leave with if we accept that world. Or we could fight. And if you decide to fight, I always say this, like, especially with regards to human rights, there is a cost. Right? Like, there is a cost. And I don't lie to young people. I don't glamorize human rights activism. I tell people that there is, you have to, in terms of the cost. And sometimes you get into this and you think, you know, maybe it's just all this in jail time, you know, but you don't actually realize the intricacies and the nuances and interconnectedness of a lot of the suffering, be it directly or indirectly. So I've had instances where you go to a government department and you want a service, with my family or with my peers, their things just glide through the system. But for me, they take less weight. You know, you start interfacing with banks and when it comes to your people, if they need to do additional verification. You know, you start to, I mean, basic things, because the system in itself, you know, I like how people look at like, you know, the news and they see us and, you know, they were impressed about us, but without actually the cognizance of when we depart from that place and we are introduced back into the system, there's certain hostilities where the system is still working on you. And the system works on you. I mean, just the loss of certain relationships and friendship. And sometimes not necessarily because people are malicious, but because people are afraid of you. You're dangerous. I mean, a whole state grounded in airplane. Surely, you must be a dangerous human being. And whatever it is, it's happening to you. You don't want that energy in our lives. I think it's the love, like people just think about the cost and say, oh, they were in prison. But like, there's a lot of like, a very intimate, intricate social cost, a lot of like, you know, ties broken, bonds broken, a lot of like economic costs. You know, the fact that if you have been branded as this, now telling someone that even like, if you wanted to get a job in corporate, right? You know, there are people in those places that sympathize with you. But they like to sympathize with you, where you are, distancing where you are. But they would never even if you have this, even if you have a qualification, they're never going to give you the job. You know, other costs like, you know, the labeling, and I think it also comes in if you're like female, you know, there's like a lot of like, I remember people making a lot of inferences to my, to my physical appearance. And I remember, at some point, the president's spokesperson making inferences to my teeth, you know, because I used to have 15. I'm like, why is a grown man having an opinion about my premolars and my molars and my canines in my mouth, right? So there is a level also of scrutiny that also comes with this particular territory. And unfortunately, people look at persons like myself, because also remember, you do have your celebrity type activists, the ones that their stories are told, and they're known, and they're, you know, they become the poster kids or whatever. And I think they look at that sometimes with a lot of admiration, and I think in some spaces with a lot of envy. But I think ultimately, it's activism that came with the limelight. So there are certain things that one must be exposed to. And I think people, the human mind's tendency is to always look at the things and they think nice things about it. But there are a lot of like, you know, subtle and sometimes even overt and covert types of systemic and structural violence that will be directed at you because you have been put on that pedestal. And I think also, at some point, it becomes quite performative as well. Because there are times when, especially I think after I came out of prison, I was really exhausted. So I needed to get a sense of myself. But because you have been put on this pedestal, you have to show up, you have to be influential, you have to have the right words, you have to have the speech, you have to, you know, you have to say something to the people, people are listening, they're waiting for you. And sometimes you don't have much to say, right? And it's not to say you've abandoned the struggle, it's not to say that you've given up. But I think that there is also that additional layer of these demands that become an expectation of you, because of that. But my heart is always, I think, deeply with, you know, the activists that, you know, don't get their names mentioned, or like, because you know, the thing about it, it's not like, it's not like going, yes, that is it. And yet, for some reason, it is you who has your name. So I think, you know, we can always debate why that's the case. So I mean, I've had conversations with people about, about this, especially in my very intimate circle. But it's sort of like, let me give you an example how, in South Africa, you have a lot of brilliant artists, but China has water, right? And it's preferred. And I think there'll be certain things that you don't necessarily orchestrate, but it's just preferred. And you can never understand human psychology from that perspective. So I could never quite understand why as an activist, I would be preferred. I, my suspicion is that in the in the case of, in the case of me being the only female young amongst three older men, it could have been a thing that, that elevates your position. And then you become preferred, because I think maybe the emphasis is Oh, look, she's like, very young. She's just a girl. Why are they treating her like that? You know, but I think also just in the past, I make inferences, there has been that thing where, you know, you are sort of like preferred. And I think sometimes there is no way of being able to tell why you are, why you are preferred. But what I can say is that this whole experience has encouraged me to reimagine and rethink solidarity. Because I do feel strongly that for a lot of people that might not have that preference that might not have that visibility. I think the post prison experience, even I think while being in prison, must be a very, very remarkable one, it must be a very horrible experience. Because I think certain systems would be skewered to supporting those that are much more prominent and seen and visible, than they are skewered to supporting those that might be invisible. And I think a personal dedication for me has been, especially in the human rights space to rethink and reimagine solidarity. And particularly from the perspective of, you know, rural voices, you know, marginalized voices. And to, to really think clearly about what it means to do human rights defense work, but also human rights protection for for defenders of human rights. Because a lot of the times there are so many stories that remain untold. And I have begun to say that I don't always want the focus to be, you know, on, on, I mean, to survivorship bias, right? The focus is on people like her, right? Oh, Namatai or like that, that common person. And I think also, I look into the stories of those that are often not making it to the front page of newspapers. But I also think with the reimagining and the thinking about solidarity, that was the last question. What do you think perhaps we can do? Because part of this work is advocacy, and we're trying to get advocacy, advocacy strategies into how do you work to help human rights defenders? I know, there's some work that has been done around laws that protect human rights defenders in the region. But the fact that what do you think this reimagining and thinking of solidarity amongst East African continent looks like? What do you think we can do? Okay, so I tie this broadly into the conversation around the ongoing global restructuring, rethinking of the global fabric, etc. And also I think just funding a lot of things that I looked on upon. And I looked on upon that even though I have operated strongly in that system, as I think the donatification of solidarity systems, which I think has usurped the power of communities to show up authentically and give solidarity. You know, this thing around struggle didn't start with us. Struggle didn't start with James Williams people. You know, there have been successful struggles. And I think a lot of the struggles were happening outside the confines of donor money. They were happening outside the confines of reports and grants and grant applications. And I feel like when we donatized and there was this like professional aspect of solidarity, it took out the power of the community to organize authentically around their own. So I've always said that in the past, you know, when people were arrested, I even speak about the liberation struggle in Zimbabwe, the young people that went to war, you know, when they needed a place to stay, they went into the community of the people, and they could knock doors and say, Hey, could we have water? Could we have a place to sleep and food and the community would give them because they understood that they were fighting for their cause. But my sense is also this phenomena where you then detach the fighters from their constituents in the community. And I think the responsibility around solidarity and caring for the fighters is subsequently, you know, relented to a bunch of professionals in NGO who speak good English and write good proposals and can get the grants. It's something that is used to tell the organized party around solidarity. And I think because that's how solidarity is being organized, you then see a lot of different dynamics like patriarchy. So men get more money. And young female human rights activists have less access to the spaces where men have more money. And sometimes the spaces may ultimately be unsafe for them. So there is that intersectional dynamic. You also realize that for a lot of solidarity programming, they are hard to reach places if you're doing it the traditional conventional way. So rural areas, rural groups are definitely marginalized. You know, I've heard stories like here in Zimbabwe, if you are an activist in like, you know, if you're arrested, you could be an excellent lawyer, 10 lawyers, but if you're arrested in a rural area, it could just be you. And you can never underestimate the power of having a lawyer. Listen, it is a privilege, you know, that person that comes and I like to laugh at the lawyers and say, you know, the moment you see them, you know, with their, with the bean jackets. And I like the swag that they move. And there's a little legal flag. And you see them after the list. You don't know, you don't have a feeling of being a lawyer. So you discover that when you move out of, you know, certain places, and this is a very intersectional issue, that's how we can improve solidarity. As you move further and further away from a place of privilege and power within the context of the solidarity system itself. And I see this as one who has been flowered with privilege and also a lot of power. This is why I keep talking about these things, right? Because I am a person who has been flowered with privilege and power within solidarity systems. We now need to rethink power within the context of a solidarity system, to rethink privilege within the context of a solidarity system, and to allow for much more organic, but also community focused forms of solidarity to start. You know, when I'm arrested, I don't need an engine to bring me food. You know, the mother who I buy tomatoes from at the corner of the street on my way back from work, if she resonates with what I've experienced, there's absolutely nothing that stops her from coming to visit me and bringing me food or water, because she has a personal resonance. And I think maybe the last thing that I, and I think particularly in the Melbourne society, that I think has been an issue with regards to solidarity, and particularly from a community perspective, I think it's poverty. I think that a lot of that's been destroyed, the middle class, people don't have much to give. So people are trying to keep what they can for themselves. Another thing that's in me is fear. I think the fear of being seen to associate where you think that whatever risk is, and then could be transferred to me. But I think fundamentally, another thing that I see that stifles solidarity, definitely is like, it's like this idea of, I don't know how to paint this image. But this idea of like, the state, I think I have the word, it's the state using disinformation and misinformation to characterize, you know, people that challenge people. And I think they've done a very bad job at challenging a lot of the, it's like the weaponization of narratives. It's like narrative tempting, oh, they're greedy. Oh, they like to get money from donors, they are doing money laundering, they're thieves, they will commit fraud, they will commit forgery, they are not accountable. So you have a lot of these labels that are ultimately being placed on people of a negative human rights state. So that in the public eye, they are depicted as criminals, they are depicted as untrustworthy, being depicted as not resonating with people. Henceforth, a person thinks like that, but if I'm arrested, I'm not going to get the same treatment that you know, a person like Namathai has, then I shouldn't give her solidarity, I shouldn't do the same things, because I don't have the same amount of protection. So it creates an alienation between those that are still doing the work and those that are not doing the work. And I think ultimately, for me, where I say we must take accountability as human rights states is our lack of investment in being able to tell our own story, our gradual detachment and disconnection with the communities and with the grassroots. I think there's a lot of elitism within the context of activism, NGO work, but I also think within the context of solidarity itself. So the fact that we have become more and more detached, it allows for these narratives to really sift into our constituents and communities and actually be sprouts, because we are not there to demystify a lot of these toxic narratives. So yeah, I think for me, these are some of the deeper, intrinsic reflections I've had, and yeah, we can always go on and on. Yeah, so I think also, that's a very important insight, I think the conversation is very important and actually opening for further conversation, because of how we call it to go further. But I do think that maybe with what you are going through right now, is that at some point, maybe Zimbabwe needs a voice into it, because you're fighting, you did not fight the state. There was nothing you did that is against the state. But now you are the target. Maybe this is where you come in, where you need to be able to voice out these issues, because the way that you are telling the story, you are telling it in a very intersectional way, that you would never think that someone from human rights back can just give you a legal background, but you come with social context of it, and humanity context of it. That is also a sort of a telepathy. And I guess maybe one day you'll be fine. And thank you very much. Yeah, and so just to say one more thing, I think it's just to say also that I like the place from which you are coming from, where you are saying that, so please come again, the point that you were saying the last time. So saying, because of how you are narrating the story, you are sort of having intersectionality into it, rather than coming as someone who has a legal background, and people will just listen to legality, instead of trying to know that this is rooted in sort of different dynamics, socially, humanity, and politics. Yeah, so I want to come back to a point you say to the start, which is the fact that, you know, for me, I think this particular arrest in 2024, this abduction and abatement arrest in 2024, was difficult for me to reconcile with, because I've done absolutely nothing. I mean, the toughest arrests you will ever have to go through are the ones where you're just like, you're just walking, you know, you're just as good as a tree. You know, you're just like going about your business, you're just like they, they're existing, you know, not bothering anyone. And I think this happens. So my last comment to that was, that's exactly how systems of tyranny and injustice work. You don't have to damn anything. So I'm always intrigued when I see people that, because even after like this was filmed, I want us to re-edit things. And I keep telling people, what people ask me, like, so what did you do? What did you do, young lady? People ground the plane to extract you from that. What did you do? And I say nothing. So I think for a lot of people asking those questions, the imposition is to say, tell us what you did so that we don't do what you did. Because for them to mentally fuck them and process the idea that you could have done absolutely nothing, and this can happen to you, is basically saying no on his face. You could just be in your house. But that's how tyranny and oppression work. It doesn't matter that you're just there. You're just living your life. That's how oppression works. That's how tyranny works. So in an oppressive system, you can live as that. Those people are suffering because they must have. But I reassure people all the time, the thing about oppression is, you will also get your turn. It will happen to you, but it's coming for you too at some point. So this is why people have to have this deep centering around justice. And they have to be unapologetic. They have to be very clear that even if it's injustice that's happening to the lady across the street, the fact that they suffer on an empty stomach makes me hungry, even if I have food in my refrigerator. The fact that the system is skewed such that the whole community of Mabuku, Tefara, and Harare, there's no water. Even if I have a bowl, a well at my house, makes me thirsty, even if I have that at my house. So if you look at it, it's a damn problem. The oppression is a damn problem. The thing about it is, you also have your turn. And that's how oppression works. So I will stop here for now. Thank you very much, Namrata. I think I really enjoyed this.