Deepak Kumar Chuphal Interview

Okay, I'm going to call up DKBusiness' patron and I'll speak to Deepak Kumar with any luck. We'll see what he has to say about his team's activities. I'm sure he'll deny everything, but I'm interested to hear his point of view. And we'll record this. Hello. Hello, I wonder if I could speak to Deepak Kumar, please. Yes, you are speaking with him. Hello, Deepak. My name's Jim Browning. I'm calling you because I'm a journalist and I wanted to get your opinion on some of the business practices of DKBusiness' patron. Could I have a few minutes of your time? Of course, you can have a few minutes. Okay. I'll tell you what it is, Deepak. I have observed your call center making scam phone calls and I would like to understand why they do this. Okay. And how did you observe it and where are they doing it? Because we are not the call center. We are a digital marketing business agency. We do the e-commerce work. We do the web work. I know you do that. So, 30% of the call center work is also there. Yes. So, how did you observe and what is your observation about this scam? Because that's a big word. Right. Well, I had a phone call a few days ago claiming to be from Windows and the person told me that my computer was reporting errors. And when I researched who was making the call, it turns out it was from people in your call center in Ramesh Nagar. Awesome. All right. Now, I must tell you about that. That might have been. Yes, there might be, you know, when they call, say about Windows, which is just about the Windows support, which they are probably doing. Now, why they might have called is somebody, somewhere you might have clicked on the online advertisements or online any of sources where they might get your number. Because we would not out of the blue get your number from anywhere. So, any, because there are, you know, online sources where the data are purchased. There are lead generation companies who sell out the data, who sell out the data and do all of those stuff. So, we purchase data from them. And then this is where we call people. So, we do not call you or people might have not called you out of the blue, knowing that we should call this, you said the name is Jim. So, we should call Jim and tell him about the problem. Because that has been, you know, that if you Google, there are thousands of companies, lead generation, those who are providing lead generation. I have not a problem with lead generation companies. I have a problem when people lie and say that they are from Windows when they are not. And when they deliberately connect to people's computers, they deliberately. I understand that. Just for a second, please hear me out. When they contact me, they deliberately misdiagnose my computer. They say I've got errors and warnings when they're quite normal. And it's basically a standard tech support scam that your operation is running. No, our operation is running with the multiple things. I know that just for a second. I know you're also do legitimate work. OK, I understand that. But you have a night shift which specializes in calling people in the USA and misdiagnosing their computer in order to get money, right? No, not misdiagnosing. But yes, we have already closed that business because we had some of our issues. We were already closing that because mainly that was not our main of the business in the night shift. In the night shift, what our main business is the web marketing and digital agencies wherein we provide the digital services and web marketing and web development services. And we also provide the work with AT&T and all those things to provide those sales. Along with those, we also do this work providing them because when we do the Internet sales, when we sell somebody AT&T and all those things, so we get customers, those who are having problems with their computer. So about 25% of the work is that which you are calling tech support scam, but that's the 25% of the work which is done. But the rest of the 75% is the 50% is the web marketing and 25% is the telecom sales, wherein we sell satellite and telephone cable and satellite services. I have no doubt that you do other things as well. It is the 25% where you call people up, pretend to be Windows and misdiagnose their PC that I have a problem. That's why we were already in the plan to lower down to 10%, sorry, from 25% to 20%, then 15%, then gradually 10% and then lowering down. So it's about growing the businesses. Once you have the other businesses stand by or running, so then only you shut down the business. So that's what we were planning and that's what was going on. But there were some of the incidents happened with our company recently. Our payment gateways was hacked and somebody, I don't know who, the companies or the bank of health is already investigating that, that there was a mischarge of around $5,500 from the few people from Russia or I don't know where. But there was a lot of, so there was a lot of hacking happened. There was a lot of people, couple of people visited to our offices with their spying cameras, drone cameras and all those things. So in the last couple of days has been very much too much hectic about the businesses, I must say that. Deepak, the 25% of the business where you make phone calls pretending to be Windows. It's already getting shut down now. Well, it doesn't matter if it's being shut down or it's already shut down. It's the fact that you did that in the first place. And not only that, when you call up your, what you call customers, they're actually victims of a scam. You then call them back weeks or months later and tell them they have more problems when they don't. 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Surely, you're not greedy enough to make money out of scams as well as the ordinary business. Why did you do this? Why did we do that? To keep doing the businesses as I said, because since our customers, which we sell them a direct TV, they happen to be going outside the people, other people have been taking money from them. So, we said that the same services we can provide them and we were doing it. So, that's the whole story. There is nothing other policy statement about it or something. When we sell them even the web services, the businesses, you know that? We sell the web digital marketing services to the businesses and we tell them, hey, sir, would you mind taking the computer services from them? And they say, yes, we provide them a computer services. So, that was the only purpose and that's where we were doing this also. So, are you really saying that the only people that you recruit to your computer services are those that are existing customers from, say, your Amazon reseller or something? Are you really saying that you don't call? No, no, I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that. I said we purchase by leads from the leads generation companies. I said that already in the very starting of the call. You buy phone numbers and other details and you make cold calls, right? No, no, we do not. Those companies pretend that these leads are generated through the Facebook and all those things wherein they have clicked on the advertisement which is relevant to the computer help or antivirus or blah, blah, blah, whatever number of things they… I would nearly believe that except I've listened to some of your calls and the vast majority of people that you call don't even have computers. So, how could that be? So, that means we are getting the fake leads and this is something which is wrong leads. So, that is the entire business. If we will be getting a 100% authentic lead, that's not possible anywhere. When you are into the business of that, you're paying for the leads. If you are paying for 10 leads, I know there will be only four or three or four leads will be the genuine and the rest would not be as genuine as they should be. So, that is something which is in business that happens. Okay, let's set aside the leads bit which I don't buy but let's assume that. Why then when you start your conversations with people, do you lie to them? Why do you say that their computers are reporting errors? As I said, we do not train them. If the agents have been doing that, I will get into the past, all the conversations with the past, my team leader and associate, I will ask them and I will ask them questions why they were doing it and what I can understand why they might be doing it is because to get the case as quickly as possible to complete their targets or to complete their things. So, that probably might have been the reason that they were doing. But since we have already stopped that, you already know about that the police came out and all those things. So, since we have already closed those businesses, so it's already gone. In fact, it's a real shame because you seem like a nice enough person. This is the worst bit about it. I don't really understand why you had to branch out into scams. What do I do? Half a million pounds or half a million dollars is quite a lot of money, I suppose. But it's a pity because I'm going to give you your fair chance. When I make a video about this company, I will put in your response. That's a fair thing to do. But where would you make money? Where would you make a video about it? On YouTube. Why would you do that? There are a lot of people who would be watching. If there are people who would be watching, they would not be coming for a job for a future business. I built this brand, DK Business Patron, for working for the last 11 years. And that's the worst bit about it. That honestly is the worst bit about it. I will let people make up their own minds whether DK Business Patron is somebody they want to do business with. But honestly, if I knew that a company was, even if it's 25%, even if it's 1%, if that business was scamming people in the background at night, I would not want to do business, even if the rest of the business was completely legitimate. I would want to make that choice. But if you compare this way, you would find all the companies do the sales, up-sales, cross-sales. So that is something which is every company in the world. Two companies that I know of call people at night time and pretend that people have computer faults. I'm sorry, DK. That doesn't wash. But I would request you to do not publish. You wanted to shut down. We already did that. Do not publish on the YouTube because I've got the businesses going on. I've got build-up there. So people might think anything. This would be completely destroyed and would make no sense. I would request that you do not. We already shut down that business. And DK Business Patron is the company which I built. And I am not the wealthiest person or something. I worked myself and I worked hard to do that. I've even not graduated for that because I studied. I worked all these, all during those years and years. And then I built up this brand. And then I built up this name. And it is something which is monthly. If I'm making 20,000 rupees a month, it's 10,000 rupees that I'm putting into the business. This is how we're buying second-hand computers, using some sources, less equipment, buying refurbished equipment. That's how I've gone to this level. I did not have any funding from any funding or angel investor. Neither my father had the money. So this is the brand that I built. And I would request you to not destroy that. You wanted to close that business. We already have closed this business. I'm already suffering a lot with this gateway has been hacked. And so there are a lot of things which has been already done. Since I was talking with you, I searched about your Google channel. I think you already have got four million or something subscribers. You might have already a lot of videos and a lot of income already yourself. If you do not put one video, that would not cost you something. But if you put that, it would cost me a lot of things. And since I've already shut it down, all those things, so I would request that as a gentle human being, since you are also in that path, you must have built up your career by your own. So it takes a lot of years. And just by one mistake, if you said you've given me a fair chance. It's not just one mistake. I have no sympathy for people who have stolen half a million dollars over the last two years from people running a scam. I'm sorry, Deepak, you may have a legitimate business, but you got greedy and you decided that half a million was not enough. And if that is only 25% of your business, you say you're a poor man. I'm sorry, that money is going somewhere. Perhaps maybe there is a way that you can actually do something like this. And here's my suggestion, Deepak. Here's my suggestion. Why don't you refund the people that you stole that money from? How about that? I would refund it as whichever is possible and however is possible. We would do that. And one thing I tell you, if you're saying that the two years back, you know that what happened two years back, there was COVID. There was no business running. That's no excuse. That is no excuse. But I'm just telling you the real story. I'm not giving you the excuse about it. I'm just telling you the fact. I was into the all other. I was into the many other businesses. And since they were during the COVID, everything was shut down. I got this offer. I had no knowledge about this business. Never. I got the offer from the people and I heard that, OK, there could be a business which could make, you know, sustainable our survival. That's where I got into it. Otherwise, I would have never got into this business. And I would not be continuing this business. It was just that during the COVID, it was to support ourselves, to survival ourselves, because the survival was very hard at that point of time. Since you are a YouTuber, you are making money on those kind of time. But we do not have that kind of digital income. So the survival, when there is survival, you know that the biggest, you know, theory says that survival to the fittest is something which is what's possibly for the survival. I'm not giving you excuses. I'm just telling you the real fact and the story which has happened. And this is where I started. And probably this was the end. So it was the two years of this journey. And that has been the end. And since you are requesting for a refund, I would try doing it as much as possible. But you know that it won't be possible for all those customers. Those are a few more years old and something. And another thing is we would be providing them services to do whichever is possible. And all the money is invested in the businesses survival. So I will do that. But I would request you to do not publish some sort of video on that because that would destroy the entire name, branding and everything. I wouldn't be able to do anything. And so that is something which was only started this because of the survival. Other than you can see the DK Business Spectrum has been running from last year. I have no sympathy if COVID kicked this whole thing off. Well, a lot of businesses were struggling at that point. That is no excuse to go in and steal money. Honestly, and then not only do you steal the money initially, then weeks and months later, your agents go back in and run pop ups on those victims PCs to get more money from them. And I'm sorry, I lose my sympathy whenever people do that. So I absolutely am going to publish exactly what happened to me and others onto YouTube. And if you want to respond to it, fine, this is your opportunity. I've been listening to you for a while and I have zero sympathy for your plight. Zero. I will be publishing this. So what would you be gaining with that? I've already shut down the business. What I will be gaining is that people can have a look at your business and see for themselves what you get up to. You say it's not a scam. Fine. That's OK. People can make up their own minds about it. You say I'm making assumptions about your business. Fine. That's how people actually see what the evidence is. OK? OK. Mr. Browning, if you present them on the video, if you present them as a scam, people would think exactly the same what they see in the video. They would not make up their mind by their own. They would only make up their mind by what they see. That's how the entire world reality is. What they see is what they believe. And that's what it would be. So I would say you already have four million things. You already have so many other videos would be coming up for you. If you just ignore the ones for a while, for time, and you can see our operations, since you already have a lot of things in the things, you can see our operations and all those things. If you find we are doing it, you may do it in future. If you have the video, that could be with you for forever. And that's the worst bit about it, Deepak, because I know that you run a legitimate business as well. OK. I agree that I'm sure it will impact your business. But honestly, I have no sympathy when you speak to older people who have lost hundreds or thousands of dollars because your company has scammed them. Sorry. Any sympathy that I have goes out the window. And I'm sorry if that affects your real business. But honestly, you should have thought of this before you started scamming people. But what I'm saying is, what I'm saying is you can keep this video. You can publish it later on. Once you realize that this company is doing something fishy again or something like that. No, it doesn't work like that. That's my commitment. You've been doing this for two years. I'm sorry. Don't worry. You can fall back on the half a million dollars that has already been stolen. I'm sure you're going to say you're very poor, but I'm sure equally that that money hasn't just disappeared. I'm sure you can fall back on that money. No, no, that money, as you said, if we are taking that money, those all these people are, you know, paying salaries, the rent, the expenses and the lead expenses. Those are all gone. It's not something that I have. It's not something if I would be having that money, I would be... Well, I'm sure a lot of it has gone out on salaries and bonuses and everything else. I've got a good idea exactly how much you make there. But don't worry. You say that you're still not a very rich man because of all of this. Very sorry, but you should maybe just check back on just how much money High Tech 365 has made in the last while and maybe recoup some of it that way. I'm sorry. What I'm going to do is publish what I've observed your company doing. Okay. People can make up their own minds whether they want to continue doing business with you or future business. It is up to them. But all I'm going to do is publish facts. I would request you to, if you can understand one time that if you can request to avoid this. This is something which is I... How can I request that? If you can avoid this video publishing, that would destroy... It's my 10 years of hard work. I started the company. Before starting the company, I was doing the job and all those things. So it's my entire 15 years of journey would get destroyed. Pity the act that you got greedy then in that case, because I know that you do legitimate work as well. And that is honestly the worst. I've seen other scam call centers who only do scams. Your business I know is a legit business as well. But that 25% that you keep talking about, I'm sorry, that is the problem. It's already shut down. Well, that's fine. But that is not going to stop me from publishing what I've observed. But something which is not going to happen in the future, we've already been penalized. We've already been penalized. My gateway has been already hacked. I'm already refunding the money to the customers. Give me your email address. I'll send you the screenshot of the payment that I would refund back. Okay. My email address is, if you look on YouTube on the About section, you'll see my email address. Give me one second. Let me just open up that because I was not logged in to the Gmail. I know nothing about this payment gateway. That means nothing to me. All I've seen is what you're using to do. It has happened with me. I will send you the email. I can't do anything about that because I know nothing about it. This is irrelevant to me. What is relevant is the fact that when I spoke to your agents, they deliberately lied to me to get money and that's the problem. That's correct. I don't know anything about that, so I don't see how I can help with that, but you can send me all the screenshots you want. You can make a reply. You can tell me why you get into this. That's fine, but it is not going to stop me from publishing what I've observed. That is one of the main purposes. You've already been raided. We've been already behind everything. The penalties have been already done. You are already having a lot of videos, a lot of subscribers. If you do not upload one video, I don't think you would lose a lot of money or reputation, but here I would lose a lot of everything. I'd like to say you should have thought of that before you decided to run a business scamming people. People do not think about this. I'm pretty sure you knew exactly what you were getting into. I know a lot of other companies scam people in the same sort of way. I've heard all of the lines before, but you did not need to get into that just to make more money. Don't worry, you've already stolen half a million dollars, so even if some of that's gone to make payments to the people who run the scams, fine, but I have no sympathy for someone who runs a scam business alongside their real business. But that was only for the survival at that point of time. No, I'm sorry, but you are online-based, OK? I don't buy that. And even so, even if it was the case that you were struggling like so many other businesses during COVID, no one needs to get into crime, and it is crime, to fund themselves. Sorry, I do not have sympathy at all. But that was the only reason. If that would have not been, I would have never get into that. It doesn't matter, OK? You had a choice. You made the choice to steal from people, and I'm sorry, I don't care if it was to avoid COVID problems. You don't need to go into crime to supplement your income. People go into the situations, whichever is available, whatever is available for them. If I would have been available for any genuine business, any other businesses which could give me the survival, I would have got into that. People, it's about the, it says that universe or any, every book says that. It's not about what you do. It's about where you live, what the people around you, what the things around you, which parents you are, what your friends' groups are, what your people surrounding are, and that makes you the person who you are. So it's not something that I choose it. That's the only option that I have. If I would have any other options, I would have got, I would have done that. Okay. That's the reality. And that's fine. If that's your response to it, that's fine. I will, I'm happy to give you your say on this. And, you know, I can publish your reasons for getting into it. That's okay as well. But honestly, for the 3,000 plus people who have been scammed, I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy. I don't know about those 3,000 numbers. Well, I can give you a spreadsheet. Well, I would, I would be happy to have that. Do you want me to name some of the people who have been scammed? Yeah, I would be happy to. You can send me the spreadsheet. I've been going back two years. Go on. Valentin Paro, Joy McIrlane, Roger Moxham. I could go through the entire 3,000 plus names. But honestly... Sir, one thing which you need to also understand is that those all were not the same. Those all were not. A few of them also comes with the web services. A few of them also comes with the data services. All, if they, let's say, I have got, I'm working with you, and I have a three business with you. So, if I have one business with you, I will put it in the one sheet. The other business, I will put it in another sheet. I will put the other business in the one sheet. So, all of these 3,000 numbers which you are saying are not from the cold calling. They were referred from the DirecTV, Comcast, some of them from the web services. But since they were the tech support sales, they will go into the tech support sales folder. If they are a web sales, they will get into the web sales. Now, one customer is taking with me the web services, is also taking the telecom services, is also taking the tech support services. He will definitely go into the three different sheets. But you will count that as... Well, it just so happens that the spreadsheet that I'm looking at has got fresh or existing. Anybody who is fresh was recruited via a cold call. Okay. So, I can break this down. Okay. Let's say 2,000 people have been scammed and not 3,000. Okay. Because they were scammed via a cold call. Okay. Let's not beat about the bush here. No matter what way you look at this, you have scammed thousands of people. And I'm sorry, my sympathy goes out the window whenever you take that amount of money by lying to people. That just does not wash. And that's why I'm publishing this. And it was your choice, Deepak, no one else's. It was your choice to go in and run a tech scam at the same time as your other business. So, I'm sorry. I'm going to publish what I find. Okay. Yes, I'm still here. I'm still here. Again, I'm saying you are only an admin on that, that you will publish it. But let's see that you have learned that you have teached the lesson. You've done anything. I was already about to shut down that. As I was, what you were seeing, you probably might have seen it. I was already about in a position to shut down. But yes, honestly speaking, I was planning to shut down by this. The festivals are coming. I was planning to shut down this festival, which was in September. But now I've already shut down it. I was already in the plan that still festival, I would be running this to continue. And on the festivals, there is a holy thing. And I was already in that plan already. Because I started in COVID due to the survival. One year was completely gone. Another one year in order to recover the losses of one year. That's where it was. And I was about to shut down in September. And just three months before, which has been already done. So, it was not something which you say that dailiness or something habit that wasn't right. It was just the survival. And that's the only option that I got in because I did not have the contact. I did not have the friend circle, who could have suggested me, who could have given me a different thought or different. As I said, the philosophy says, the person makes is not by what he is. It's by the friend that he grew up, what the school that he studied, what the colleague that he has. And that's where I had. And that's where I found, okay, that could be survival. For the one year, it was to survive. Next year, it was to recover. This is where I was going to just, okay, finish it up. I already have my legit businesses. I am already satisfied with that. But there was people who were saying to me, okay, sir, we have an existing customer. We need to provide them services. We need to run that for that time. So, that's what it is. I would request you to not publish anything like that. That would destroy my complete everything. Please do not do that. You already are very much mature enough to understand. You already have got, I think, about 109 videos. So, you're already into this business. You've already met with so many people. You already know that how the other people are. Yes, I mess with people who steal money from innocent people. No, I'm saying you might have met with many people. You know that how the other people are. That's not something which I am. So, I'm just trying to tell you that please do not release. When you train your agents to pretend to be Windows or whatever they want to call themselves each day, and they threaten that if the person doesn't listen to them, that their computer will be made inactive or whatever. When you threaten people, and I've recorded it, sorry, but I have recorded them saying that, I lose all my sympathy. I will publish the video and people can make up their own minds whether they want to. I think the people will only make up their minds because the first word you are using is a scam exposure or whatever it is. That's what it is. And this is the reason why I'm annoyed with this because you will not be honest. You're not honest with me. You know that's under tech. I am 100% honest now. I am 100% honest with you now. No, but you keep saying it's a scam. It's a scam. It's not a scam. Of course, it's a scam. We know it's a scam. I've recorded the scams. Please stop saying, oh, but I don't like that term. Rubbish. Would you just admit what it is? I admit it and I'm already saying that I was about to close it, why I started it, why I'm closing it, when I'm closing it, what I am. I've already told you each and everything. Yeah, okay. You're saying it's because I was intending to close it anyway. Okay, that's fine. Maybe it's because there were people who did get into your office and started filming in your office. Maybe that was the reason why you thought I'd better close it down. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. It was already decided in the last December. Last December I got married and I decided already that this business is done and I would not be getting into this business anymore. I started this business on this, the last December I got married. You can check my online history and you will see everything. And I decided, I already had decided. But you know one thing, Mr. Jim, once you get into the situation, it becomes a little easy, a little harder to get out of those things, time. So I was already planning to do that. I already had planned that, but it was not the people who were filming and all that. That was something which got us suspicious why they were filming. It's not something that it was related with that. It was already planned to shut down in this coming festival. You know that India has the upcoming festival, the biggest festival of the year in coming months, in two months, in September, this year I guess, or October 1st, I don't know. But that was already planned. So I request you to do not do, please do not put into publishing something and you already have the video. You can be in touch with me. You be in touch with me. You realize that I haven't done anything or I'm doing or anything bad. I would send you the refund of the customer, whichever, whoever is, whichever possible. You also know that that 100% won't be possible for me and I will do it. So please do not publish the video. If I don't follow that, you can publish the video. It's something which you can keep it for as long as you want. So that is what I would request you to do. Well, I'm sorry. On behalf of the thousands of people who have had money stolen by your company, I am going to publish this no matter what. And people can make up their own minds whether I'm telling the truth or whether this is something that you get into and then just decided to get out of. You've had your fair say on that and I will properly represent you. And if people want to listen to the whole call, they can listen to it too. But you've had your say, but no matter what, I'm going to publish what I found and people can make up their own minds. Deepak, I'm sorry if this is an impact on your business, but honestly you should have thought of this before you started stealing from people. I told you that. What could have I thought at that point of time in the COVID situation? What could have I thought? Well, I'm sure whatever I thought of and it was rough for me as well and a lot of thousands of other people, millions of other people. But what they don't do is decide to open scam operations to make up for lost revenue. Sorry, that doesn't wash. That's something which is at the situation what we got. Somebody got that. Somebody did not got it. Whoever, whatever got it, they did whatever. And I tell you one thing that when I started this, it was something which was already that I would run it for only the survival. So that wasn't something and I did not steal all those money. Those money all are gone to the expenses. Business has the expenses. So it's not something that I have kept something, money if you say that. And those thousands of people, those you say that we have, we've got the license, this McAfee Antivirus. If I'm taking, let's say, if I'm taking from somebody $100, you know $30 we spend on the McAfee Antivirus. $30 we spend on the McAfee Antivirus or somebody has the McAfee, then we would spend it on the malware. We would purchase a legit one. I've got the all license key of that. So it's not something we were doing it wrong. I understand that business was wrong. There was bad things. But I would request you to please do not compare with me all the people that you probably meet or that probably you get. Do not compare with me those. I'm not like that and we were never like that and we will never be. We are doing completely as legit as possible. You keep telling yourself that and you look at some of my other videos about tech scams and you will see exactly the same lines that your people use on their victims. OK. I cannot distinguish between your tech scam and some other scam which is pure scam and doesn't run a side business of legit work. I'm sorry. Your people are not distinguishable. It's the same script. It's the same lines. And in fact, yours are worse because you re-scam people who have been scammed before on your computers. I have seen the scripts that you run on your victims computers to say there are pop-ups that you run and you know this. There are pop-ups that you run on their computers because you've got remote access to all your victims and you get more money out of them in the future. And I'm sorry my sympathy goes out the window when I see that happening. No, no, no. We don't run the pop-ups like that. We don't do that. No, no, no. That is absolutely wrong. We don't do any pop-ups. Oh, no. OK. So I have seen your agents do this. The scripts that they run are already on some of your computers. I've downloaded them. I've had a look at them. I've had independent people have a look at them. And they run visual basic pop-ups on victim computers to get more money from them. We do not charge them again and again. What you are saying is run the pop-ups. We do not do that. Your spreadsheet includes both fresh and existing customers. Existing customers come for the support. They come for the support. They come for the services. Let's say if I've given you the services, they will come back to me a month later, OK, I've got some X problem, some X problem. They come back to us. Every day they come back to us. I'm sure they do. When they think they're paying for support, I'm certain that that happens. I've seen that as well. But the difficulty is for you that not only do people contact you about real problems, and I agree you do support them whenever they do have real problems, but you decide or your agents decide that when they want to get more money out of people, they remotely log into their PCs and they run VBS pop-ups. More money is what we want when the customer calls and if he's asking for something which is not possible for us. Let's say if he's asking for any software, he's asking for Windows to be installed on another computer. He's asking for the work which is not possible. We do that. We install Windows. We provide them a software that they want. We have already provided many customers this software called QuickBooks, the family tree. We purchase the license. We give them. So we only upsell them only when there is something that is additionally required. If some customer is asking me to connect his computer to three screens, many, many things come up, but there is a sticky property here that we would not be charging the customer again until their services are finished. Or if we are charging before their services are finished, that means they have required something which is not there, which is not added. Let's say if I have taken somebody from $200, now how long would I work for him? If he wanted me to install a printer, which is a Wi-Fi printer, that would require about two hours of call. Now the technician who is doing that, he would go into the printer, try to configure the printer, match the Wi-Fi, match the router. Error comes up in between those all things. So that technician is already a technician. Then I would say to myself, your printer installation was not in my technical scope, and the printer installation would cost you a digital $100 or $80 or $90, whatever would be the case. So that's the entire how we do it. I have agreed that. Okay, I will call him back just to give him that my money ran out on my phone there. So I will call him back one more time. Hello, Deepak. Yeah, I'm sorry. I don't know. We got disconnected. It was my end. I accidentally disconnected. That's fine. I've heard – I would request you to please do not publish the video. That would hamper a lot. It's been already done now, shut down the business, refunding the money, providing the legit support. Everything is done. You already know all those things. So let's not publish the video. You cannot refund the people who have had money stolen more than three months ago. That's impossible. You may be able to refund or do refunds for some of your recent victims, but it's impossible to refund the – let's call it $300,000 that was stolen prior to a few months ago. That's impossible. I know that because I tried it. That $300,000, if you are saying, 80% of it, it's gone to the expense. Yeah, okay. Let's say it has, okay. I don't care. It was stolen from those people. It was taken under fraudulent circumstances. And I'm very sorry, but that's what I'm going to publish the video about. You may have legit business as well, but I'm sorry. You did not need to get into scams no matter what you say. And I'm going to publish what I found. So I don't think our conversation needs to go any further. I will be publishing this weekend. And you've had a fair say on this. I would say one thing last that you please rethink about it. I would say one thing last that you please rethink about it. Rethink the entire history of my business. Rethink the entire everything. Please do not publish the video. You can keep the video. Did the police uncover anything about a scam? I don't know what the police had. They already have filed the case, and they are also behind me. Probably you sent them, the police, to me. I don't know. I did. Right, so they are already in the position to They have already my 10, 15, 20 computers they already have. They are investigating all that. So I'm already going to jail. You are also publishing the video. It's completely destroyed. So I would request one thing, and then please do not publish the video. So that at least the online, I don't know, 4 million people and how many people would it reach to, what it would have. At least the other businesses, I would go to already. It's final that I probably would end up going to the jail. So I'm already in so many trouble. That's why you sent me another one. I've already shut down everything. Everything is there. Everything is gone. I don't know what the police is going to plan to do. So I would request you to please shut down this. Do not publish the video. I hear what you say, Deepak. Honestly, I understand. And in some ways, because you have got legitimate business, I'm almost sympathetic for that business. But I was not the one who decided to go into a scam operation. You were. So that is the consequence of all of this. But the situation made me. You cannot blind-foldedly ignore that. I understand that was my decision. That was my decision. But it was a situational decision. It was not a choiceable decision. It was a situational decision. That is also the fact you need to agree. A lot of people had hard decisions to make at the time of COVID. But one of the decisions that most people did not make is, I will supplement my income by getting into scams. I lose my sympathy when I hear that, especially when I can see just how much money you've made from the scam. And even if some of that money has been paid back to agents through incentives or whatever else, fine. At the end of the day, you made the decision to do all of this. You made the decision to keep that scam going. And I'm sorry if that has an impact on your business. I think that's a good thing because people need to know who they're dealing with. And even if you've built up a business over a period of 10 plus years, I'm sorry, you're the one who jeopardized it by getting into scams. India has a bad enough reputation without you adding to it. And that's exactly what you've done. See, one thing that is there, why I got into this situation is because the people who are working in the legit business, I had no money to pay them. They could have lost their job. They could have left the job. But I did not ask them to leave the job. To survive that, I got the money to pay the genuine things. I did the ungenuine things. So that's something which is just a survival. If I would not be doing those, those other people, those who are working my other projects, they would not be continuing working. They would be losing the job, and they would not be getting anything. So I supported them, given them from one side to other side, and I was already about to shut down. I was already going to the jail. I don't know what the police is about to do. I have no idea. They have an investigation going on. Do you know that one of your victims paid out over $5,000? This is where I said. This is exactly what I said. My gateway has been hacked. There has been only from one transaction, which is $5,000 of eight transactions. There was a total pride of about 25 transactions. I know nothing about this. What I'm talking about is the spreadsheet of the victims that I've seen. In that spreadsheet, it details just how much money was stolen from those people, whether it's existing or fresh. Some of them, yes, may have come from your other businesses, for all I know. But what I do know for certain is that when you contact people, you pretend to be windows. You do lie to people in order to get money out of them. For me, that's the bit that is not forgivable. You have stolen hundreds of thousands of dollars over the last few years. I don't care where it's gone. I am going to publish what has happened and people can make up their own minds whether they want to continue doing business with DK Business Patron. That's it. I don't see this going any further. That's what I will do. Honestly, it's your own mess, Deepak. Goodbye. I would understand. At least give us a fair chance. I've given you a fair chance to explain it on this call. Okay? But that wasn't the chance. The chance is to at least remove the video and at least be the humanity ground. Why did you start it? You've got my email address. Why don't you start by refunding some of the people that you've stolen from? How about that? Yeah, I will do that. You know my email address. I got it. Just give me evidence that you're refunding people. That's fine. I'll have a look at that. But honestly, I'm still going to publish. Please do not publish. I would still email you, but do not publish it. Keep some humanity ground. My intention from the beginning was not wrong. The person is not wrong. No, I'm sorry. When you talk about humanity grounds, if you've listened to what your agents say to people, and I'm sure you listen to the odd call as well. Deepak, do you? Have you ever listened to them? No, sir. Not because I don't hardly get time to listen. Okay. Well, that's fine. When you see my video, you can listen to your agents there. Okay? You can see your agents there as well, what they say to people, how they get money out of people, how they steal that money. You can watch the video, and then you can make your comments after that. But honestly, when you see it face-to-face, and people will see it face-to-face, then I lose all the sympathy. So, absolutely, I'm going to, regardless, I'm going to publish this, and probably a couple of other people are as well. And, sorry, when you listen to it, any normal person would not have sympathy. I'm sorry. It was your own decision. That's where it ends. Deepak. But any normal person would not know all the other stories. That's fine. You can make a response. Okay? You've got your own website. You can explain it there as well. You've got lots of ways. You've got a Facebook page. You've got a Twitter account. You can make a response to everything I've said. And if I've got anything wrong, okay, please tell me about it, because I would be very interested in that. I'm only going to publish facts. Okay? I'm going to publish exactly what happened, and you can make a response, and you will find that I have got zero things wrong. You said I'm making assumptions. That was your starting stance on all of this. I was making assumptions. Fine. You tell me where the assumptions aren't right. I would write you an email. Please take care of the email. Okay. Do not publish the video. I will try. If there is a compensation, which is on the video, you will make money. I will try my hard if I can meet that, and because of COVID, I don't think I will be able to pay that. You've got a website. You've got a whole business, which runs websites. You've got an online presence. You're very free to make a response, and like I say, especially to the half a million plus dollars and the 3,000 plus people that have been scammed, I'm sure they would like to know what your response is to. No, but I would request you that I would compensate if you do not publish the video. No, no, no. I'm not interested in... No, that makes me worse than you, and I'm not going to do that. No, no. Because you would make money from the YouTube. That's right. That's my living, okay? This is my job, okay? We've got to make sure on this one. You think that I publish this to make money. Yes, it is my job. That is true. Very true. But equally, what I want to do is expose scams to people. That's what my business is about, and when I can, if I can find out who makes the calls and who runs the thing, I will expose those people. That's what I do. That is my job. I don't make any... You can say that I make money out of YouTube. That's absolutely correct, but that is not why I'm publishing it. I am publishing it because people need to be aware who makes those calls because people hide behind those scam calls. They make up fake businesses like Hitech 365 when the real business name is DK. Okay? It is your business which ran the scam, and I'm sorry, you're still the only person to blame. Mr. Brownlee, since you are saying that you are not putting this video for the purpose of money and for the people to know that I have already shut it down, going to do all those penalties, police is already behind that, so if the people even do not know about it, I already got penalized. You know that. So that is something which you are assuming that people would know, the 1,000 or 2,000 people. I don't think they will know. Other than that, more than 4 million, or I don't know, the millions of subscribers and the viewers you have, and they have probably nothing to do, and since I have already shut down the business, and you know that the image of call centers in the industry, in the market, is not very good. We get very hard to hire the people. People do not, parents do not want to send their kids to the call center because they assume that all call centers are bad, and if they would put my name on that, it would relate there. So that's something I think it's not going to be fair for giving me a penalty. I've been already penalized about it. All things have been already done. If those people would not know, but they do know that, that I have already penalized that business background, let's not destroy the entire business. They've already shut down that, not going to do that. I'm committing you to have a regular communication with you on the email. I'll be in contact with you over the email. Let you know which I am refunding, what I am doing. I'll let you know. You don't satisfy, you have the video. You publish it after one month, publish it after two months, publish it anytime that you want. Give me a time, let me send you an email, let's detail on that email, and publish it anytime you have the video, right? So let's at least give it as a fair conversation, a chance about it, right? Are you there? I'm here, I'm listening. So I would, let's deal on it. If you find that I have not, that the person, what I'm saying, is not believable, let's give it a chance for some time, and then you say, okay Deepak, I'm not satisfied, I still found you, then I will publish it. Just on the one call, you're trying my fair, you know, this explanation, give me a little time, we talk on the email, you give me a call again after some day, we talk on the Google meet also, anywhere, I would be ready to do that, and I would follow the steps to finalize, and probably, if you put the video, before you put the video, five days later, I don't know, when the police is about to come, they are already, already the lawyer is there, I don't know what, I already have to go to the courts and lawyers, and all those things are already happening. So I'm already not a multi-billionaire or something where I got the money, I don't have, I'm already putting all this money into the case, police advocates are already doing that, advocate is already taking the money, of course the advocate would charge his fees, the court, I would go around to the court, the court would take the money, already there, already business shut down, I'm already in the other businesses, it was only the 25% of my businesses, and that I was also, I was planning to shut it down, because those people who was working, I need to also settle them into the other things, and they would say that, we were working with you for last 6 months, 7 months, 8 months, and you just, one day you will just say no, if there is no situation, so I was just planning to shut it down, already till this festival is coming, so it was, all things was already there, I would request you to, please do not do it, I'll send you the email tonight, that number of people that I want you to refer, and then you, you continue with that, but let's not decide to publish the video right now, give us a fair chance, and this, I'm committing to nothing, Deepak, so, anyway, I will leave it at this, otherwise we'll keep going right in circles, and yeah, you can let me know what you're going to do, but, I'm not promising one, I'm not promising anything at all, okay? I'll email you, okay? I'll email you tonight. Okay. Okay? All right, we'll leave it here, goodbye, bye. Thank you.