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Transcription
Jessica introduces herself as the Communications Director for Phillip A. Jones Consulting and the Podcast Producer for The Wall Behind and Beyond. She mentions receiving great questions from listeners. Phillip Jones, the host, talks about his background growing up in Baltimore. He describes his childhood as difficult, with neglect and lack of parental guidance. Phillip shares that he had to become the financial support for himself and his younger brothers from a young age. He engaged in various activities, legal and illegal, to provide for his family. At the age of 12 or 11, Phillip's first encounter with the justice system occurred when he threw rocks at a girl he liked, accidentally hitting her mother's car. He took responsibility, and his father paid for the damage, but he still faced charges and probation. As a teenager, Phillip got involved in selling drugs and ended up shooting someone during a confrontation. He was convicted of attempted murder and sentenced to life in prison. P Okay. Three, two, one. Good morning, listeners. My name is Jessica, and I'm the Communications Director for Phillip A. Jones Consulting, LLC, as well as the Podcast Producer for The Wall Behind and Beyond. We are really excited to have you here with us this morning. We had an overwhelming number of great questions from our listeners. Nope. Hold on. Three, two, one. Good morning, listeners. My name is Jessica, and I'm the Communications Director for Phillip A. Jones Consulting, LLC, as well as the Podcast Producer for The Wall Behind and Beyond. We had an overwhelming number of great questions from our listeners, so let's get started. Our esteemed host, Phillip Jones, is sitting on the other side of the microphone today. How are you doing today, Phillip? I'm doing good. How about yourself? I'm doing great. That's what's up. I wanted to start out with some of our basic questions for you so that our listeners can get an idea of who you are. Okay, okay. To start, tell us a little bit about yourself. Where were you born? Where did you grow up? Well, I'm the oldest of my mother's three kids. I'm born and raised in Baltimore City, Maryland. I come from a neighborhood on the southwest side of the city called Westport. It's where all of my family remains and resides to this day. And, yeah, that's where it's at. All right. And you said that you grew up on the west side of Baltimore. Where is that for our listeners who aren't familiar with Baltimore? Well, unless you've been there, you probably won't know even if I explained it. But it's part of the city that's really close to downtown. It's like basically two minutes walking distance from downtown. That's the west side. I can walk from where I live to the Ravens Stadium and probably get there in five minutes. So we were close to everything. It's very urban, you know what I mean? But it's still low-income, and it's a project housing for people of low-income status. I bet there are a lot of Ravens fans out there who are pretty excited to hear that. When you were growing up in Baltimore with your family, what was your childhood like? What were some of the difficulties and hurdles that you faced? Me and my brothers, you know what I'm saying, it was like we had to raise ourselves because our parents, they had challenges, you know, dealing with all kinds of addictions. And just coming up in an environment of poverty, you know what I mean, there's a lot of stress on families. So my parents were struggling before we was even born. But we had to pretty much learn how to survive. So me and my brothers were stuck together, and we would go out into the streets, even when our parents was nowhere to be found. And we got caught up in a lot of things. So I would say it was a childhood of neglect and basically us trying to figure it out without any parental guidance. So that's why I always say I was misdirected. But, yeah, pretty much that's how it went for us. I think there's a lot of people that that story resonates with. You had mentioned something in one of your writings that you were kind of the financial support for yourself and your younger brothers, and you were quite young. Tell us a little bit about that experience. Me being the oldest, you know, I was a hustler. You know, I had to go out there and get it any way I could so we could eat, so my brothers had clothes and shoes. So for me it started off at first going to the market at like the age of 10, helping people with their bags, getting 50 cents a bag. Back then, we're talking about the early 80s, you know, you do that a few times, you know, you got like 10 bucks and that goes a long way when you're a kid. After that I used to go to the gas station and help people pump their gas. They'd give me a dollar. I'd save it until I could go and buy something to eat. And then it just kept on. Gradually after that I just picked up more and more things to do. Some of it was illegal. I'd hit trains, you know, I'd hit the trucks that was waiting to deliver products to the stores when I'd see them, I'd check and see if they were open. You know, I'm not proud of any of this. This is just the way that I was taught to survive. I followed behind people that was older than me in my neighborhood and they was all doing it and I didn't have any parents to stop me, so I went out there and did the same thing they did. So I'd do all that so that I could make sure we had food on the table and so that my brothers wasn't hungry from starvation or crying because they couldn't, you know, they didn't have nothing to eat. So, you know, that was my past, my childhood, and it got me, it took me to where I am today. It sounds like sometimes necessity is the mother of entrepreneurship. You don't see many 10-year-olds offering to carry groceries. Yeah, I guess you could say that. What was your first actual experience being involved with the justice system and how old were you? I think I was 12 or 11. I was throwing rocks at a neighborhood female that I was attracted to. She was my peer. But, again, you know, it's crazy because, you know, you like somebody, but you're throwing rocks at them. I guess I didn't have any game or I didn't know how to speak, and so I just was doing whatever I could to make her know that I was interested. Unfortunately, that rock hit her mother's car window. So me being who I am, I went to her house with her and told her mom that I take responsibility for it, and I called my father. He agreed to pay for it. The police gave me a citation, and then we had to go to court. So they charged me with some malicious destruction. And then when I went to court, they made me wait in juvenile for 30 days before they gave me probation. So that was my first interaction with the system, the juvenile system. And then I ended up being on indefinite probation after that. I mean, it sounds like that situation you tried to do the right thing, and there was a lot of misunderstanding on the part of that girl's mother. I'm hoping that you got more game now. Well, I wouldn't throw no rocks, especially not in a residential with cars everywhere, you know what I mean? But, yeah, my father actually paid for that car window. We could have resolved that. And that's the thing with kids when we put them into the system. I didn't run. I went in there and told her I was doing something stupid. My dad, I guess he heard him talk on the phone. He got it resolved. I went to court. The courts got involved. And once they get involved, you know, anything can happen. So that was the start of me being on indefinite probation, which led to me getting other charges later and being wrapped up in the system. Okay, take a break for a second. We're going to go on to the when did you first go to prison question. All right. Yeah. So the answer to the hustle and the first experience, excellent, because we can put those up and people are going to have a lot to think about it. Yeah. There we go. So I understand that you were a teenager when you were first sent to prison. What happened to you to get you embroiled in that situation? Good question. You know, I was out there in the game, again, selling drugs, you know, basically trying to hustle, whether that be to take someone else's product and try to sell it and get the money for it or me having some of my own. You know, it was always up and down, you know, starting out out there, doing something illegal, first of all, doing something that was detrimental to my community. But one night things went left. I interacted with a guy. I was trying to take away his drugs because I needed them. He resisted, of course. One thing led to another. I got into a tussle. I ended up shooting the young man. Fortunately, and I'm so good, I thank God every day that he never died from it. He was injured severely, and I've been remorseful for that for years. Every time I think about it I wish I could tell him how, you know, sorry I am for what I did to him. But I was arrested for attempted murder and a handgun violation and a conspiracy. I went to trial. They offered me a deal, but it was a package deal. And if my co-defendant didn't take it, then I couldn't take it. So I wanted to take it, but he didn't want to take it. So we ended up going to trial. We had seven days, I believe. I ended up getting found guilty for all charges, and they sentenced me to life in prison. And I've been down three decades, over three decades now, for this offense. My first adult incarceration, by the way. That's pretty heavy. So our listeners who aren't Maryland residents may not understand why someone or how someone could receive a sentence that is so lengthy for a crime where everybody was eventually okay. Can you tell us a little bit about how that may have come about and what that indeterminate sentencing is all about? Well, first of all, I want to say I can't say everybody was okay. I don't know the trauma that may have been heaped upon the young man that was shot by me. He was harmed. But, again, I understand where you're coming from is that, you know, you would think that for a first-time offense where there's a non-homicide, that you would get some time, but, of course, not the rest of your life. I get that. I get that a lot of times for a lot of people. It's because of the way the sentencing laws are set up in the state of Maryland and because of, you know, the high level of violence in Baltimore City that contributes to the high sentences that they pass out for certain crimes. But, you know, it's understandable that, you know, they feel like they're representing a victim. So it's public safety. I get that. But I feel like when you're in prison and you change in ways and you become, you know, a mature adult, you start to reason better and you start to take responsibility for your behaviors and your actions and you start to program and educating yourself. I believe that second chances are in order because, otherwise, the system is not doing what it's intended to do. It's supposed to correct. Once the correction is made, then the punishment should come to an end. You know what I mean? I absolutely agree with you. I'm really glad that you put that out there. When you first went to prison, I understand you were 19 years old. Is that correct? Yeah. Yeah. Where were you initially housed in Maryland when you were sentenced? Well, first I violated probation because I had juvenile probation. So when I went to prison for this offense that I'm in for, I was already violated, and so they immediately sent me to a medium security called Eastern Correctional Institution out in the Eastern Shore. But once I was done with my trial and I was found guilty and sentenced, they transferred me to a prison called, at the time, the Maryland State Penitentiary, which is an old school prison in the center of East Baltimore. And it was all the guys that had all the time, the world's heinous crimes. They were all packed in there, and I was just a kid coming in. It was unbelievable. I couldn't believe the setup. It's the same prison, actually, that they filmed XXX with Ice Cube when he was on the roof. I think it was the same prison. No, no, no, no. That was just a cut, but it was still another prison in Maryland where I was at that was designed the same way. A lot of bricks, five stories high. It looks like a castle grayscale of some sort. But, yeah, that's where I started off, and then I eventually ended up in the Maryland House of Corrections Annex, which was called back then now the JCI, Justice Correctional Institution. And then I went to the Maryland Supermax, which was NCAC. That has been since shut down. So I've been all over Maryland except for Hagerstown and Cumberland. That wasn't built when I was there. Okay. And I know that now you are housed in Washington State, but you mentioned the Maryland House of Corrections Annex, which has a reputation for being one of the toughest prisons in the country. What was your experience like there, particularly as quite a young man? My experience there was that was when I was losing myself the most because I started off and I got my GED when I came in. I was taking college classes when I was in the Maryland State Penitentiary. But then they abruptly transferred us because there was a new prison and they were trying to shut down the Maryland State Penitentiary. They were trying to shut that down, so they were transferring us out. And when we got there, there was no programs. There was no jobs. It was nothing. It was a bunch of young kids in these housing units with nothing to do. But, you know, they say the idle mind is the workshop of the devil. So when I got down there, me and my peers, we had some bright idea. We were going to start some organization, some gang. And we came together for some devious practices and ended up coming up with an organization that we founded. And so once that happened, prison changed, you know, the whole atmosphere. There was a lot of, you know, weapons and, you know, people was walking around, you know, with this mindset, this mentality that they was going to run everything and it was going to take over. We was kids. I was 24, I believe. But that was a prison where, you know, you could see a dead body and people getting stabbed on a daily basis and there was no cops around. It was just like no COs around. It was just like, you know, we were in there running the place. It was a dangerous prison, hands down. Like you'd be lucky to get out of there with your life. It was just that bad. That was when it first opened. Now I heard it's more calm. There's a lot less of that kind of thing going on, and that's good. I'm glad to hear that. I am as well. I mean, it definitely sounds like in the beginning when you were there, it was basically just a human warehouse. I know you have been in the state of Washington now for many years. What are the differences between the facility that you're housed at now and the annex where you were initially housed? Oh, it's a big difference. You know, this is Washington State. It's nothing like Maryland. You know, it's just a whole different culture, a whole different situation. Out here in Washington, the system is designed so that they are always under surveillance. So, you know, there's constant interaction. They're always around, seeing everything that's going on. So they are on top of things building and testering. It's a lot more peaceful here. I was able to come out here, and really this is where I started doing all my programming and education, because putting together my shows and doing the work that I do, because you had the mind, you had the mental space to do it. You weren't stressed. You weren't always on ready for some violence to pop off you. You know, you had a chance to really focus in on improvement, self-improvement. And so that's the difference between being in the state of Washington versus Maryland, where I'm from. Okay. We've got two minutes left on the call. Let's take a two-minute break, and then we can record some more. That is actually going amazingly well. Yeah, I don't know. It seems like I'm not getting all the points I want. Yeah, I mean, that's the good part about being short, is I'm literally going to be clipping, you know, 30-second to a minute-and-a-half videos, and we'll share the stuff that sounds the best. Those little vignettes, those little anecdotes about your history, people will love those, because that's what they want to hear. I mean, they're also going to want to hear, like, and I think we should at some point talk about not what you're doing now, but what dating was like for you in there, what relationships are like, how you shape people. I think we should talk about in one of the questions, like, what it's like to try to have a relationship in prison, what it's like to maintain communication with your family. People will want to hear that. I wouldn't, say, talk about your current, but you can say, like, I have had long-term relationships, this is how it was, that kind of thing. All right. So, but I said that at the end. Yeah. Sounds really good. I sent Alpaca a couple messages just reminding her that you love her and things are hard right now. Yeah. I know. Yeah, well, she's going through it, too. Everybody's going through it, so hopefully, you know, when she gets all this shit off of her, she'll feel better.
