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Q3-20000809-Larry_Rosenberg-CIMC-discussion_on_practice-8142 Leandra Tejedor
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Talk: 20000809-Larry_Rosenberg-CIMC-discussion_on_practice-8142 Leandra Tejedor.json Start_time: 00:18:28 Display_question: I would like to share about me experience when I was mediating and how I felt like I was breathing in the whole universe. Keyword_search: meditating, universe, breathing, epiphany, body, Buddha, suffering, grasping, intimate, Zen, TM, Tibetan,Vipassana, Cambridge, mind, energy Question_content: Questioner: A few months ago… I have been meditating for a while… I was meditating and instead of folding my hands like this, I opened them like this. And I felt I was inhaling, when I was breathing in, I was breathing in, and it felt like I was breathing in the whole universe. And it was like an epiphany for me. I don't know. I don't know how to explain it. It was like I felt I was like, what was that? Larry: You know what it was? You know what it was? It was this. Questioner: It was this. Larry: No. In a few places the Buddha refers to… this can mean the experience of… throwaway names for the moment. See, what's happening is, you have to be careful not to get lost in names, to find the proper name for what your experience was. Of course, there are words for the different experiences. I'm not denying that. But most important is to learn how to be with it, because just listening to you, I don't know. My answer has to be qualified. Are you making up some term, the universe, does it feel spacious? In other words, if you could describe it, can you describe it in even more simple, even simple minded, concrete terms? Questioner: It felt like it was coming into every pore of my body. Larry: The Buddha used the term, this, for the most ordinary, let's say just experiencing in breath, but not the word in breath, not respiration, just what it was. And also, for the experience of awakening. And it's always going to be like that. We have language, and thoughts, about what's happening to us, but what's happening to us is… I'm not going to use a word for it, but certainly what you describe, I have to use words now, so we can talk. It sounded like it was a feeling. First of all, tell me what it felt like after it was over. Questioner: Like I said. Larry: Yes. Questioner: It felt like...I think epiphany, right. It’s like this is the meaning. Larry: Okay. Questioner: This kind of what I am in. I’ve been in so many other things, I knew that this was… Larry: This meaning what? This practice? Questioner: This practice. Larry: Yes, but has it come back? Questioner: No! I’m waiting for it. Larry: So, the more you wait, the more suffering. See? Okay. Do you mind if I use your question? Because it gets at a very, very important point. Questioner: Okay. Larry: If you keep doing this practice, you'll have experiences that are spacious, and silence that is beyond words, and enriches life. Of course, we do it for that reason. But the heart of the practice is, to keep a mind that doesn't grasp, or cling. It's not about any particular experience. And it's the hardest thing to learn, what I'm saying right now. And it's definitely the hardest thing to teach because, we all want good experiences. We want peaceful ones. We want you use the word epiphany, whatever that means to you. We want rapture. We want feelings of incredible kindness, and compassion, feeling for the entire universe. But then what happens when we feel bored? What happens when we feel angry? What happens when we feel frustrated? This particular practice is about the full scope, of what it means, to be a human being. From this point of view, they're all equally valuable. See what I meant by enlarging our capacity to receive our experience. You'd be happy to receive that one again, wouldn't you? Right. But it doesn't seem to come on demand, does it? Questioner: No, it doesn’t Larry: Yeah. The more you want it, the less likely. Not only that, it never will come back, in exactly that way. I don't mean that there won't be wonderful experiences, but it won't be exactly that way. Life isn't that. Life is constantly…do you see what I'm getting at? Questioner: Different all the time. Larry: Okay, so the art would be… fully be intimate with it. When it happened, it sounds like you were, and derive the full benefit. It sounds like it inspired you, right? Questioner: Yes, it did. Larry: Okay, and then you said, this is for me, this Vipassana stuff is for me. But what happens if you go for a couple of weeks, and it doesn't come back? You'd be over to Zen. Maybe they have it. Then TM. Make the rounds. In Cambridge, you can spend the next ten years… but all of the Buddha’s teaching, at any rate, I can't say for all… the word meditation, is used so broadly now. All of it, whether it's Tibetan, Zen, or here, those are the main teachings in town. The essence of it, that everyone agrees on, is that mind, that is not grasping, or pushing away. Now, that's what takes you to liberation. This is about getting free, not about having good experiences. It's not a new fix to get. Of course, some good experiences come along the way, they're invaluable because it inspires you, and gives you energy to practice. Questioner: This is it. Larry: Okay, but if you attach to any particular outcome, you will suffer. And then even that's okay. Because if you can learn from it anytime, you grasp, if you crave something, and you simply must have it, and want it, and you don't get it, which is at least sometimes… Questioner: No that’s not what I…I don’t expect and hope I get it. Larry: Okay, good. Questioner: It just settles in me that this for me is not…so that continuing Larry: That's different. Questioner: But it said, this is to me, I want to do this. Larry: Yes. Questioner: And I want to be doing this practice, and all that. I was not expecting that wonderful feeling. Larry: Okay, then you're not suffering. Questioner: No Larry: Yeah. You see, the whole art is, to fully experience what's there, and then when it's gone, to let it go. What else are you going to do? Questioner: I'm satisfied with what it did. Larry: Great. I think you should continue the talk. I'm not there yet. I'm not anyone there. End_time: 00:25:08
