Q3-19890607-Larry_Rosenberg-UNK-come_what_may_seeing_come_what_may_doing-1569 Leandra Tejedor

Talk: 19890607-Larry_Rosenberg-UNK-come_what_may_seeing_come_what_may_doing-1569 Leandra Tejedor (1).json Start_time: 01:23:13 Display_question: If this is an oral tradition, what is the role of having the figure of the Buddha, in the practice? Keyword_search: spiritual tradition, statues, chanting, ceremony, Buddha, Dharma, Sangha, bowing, devotional, appreciation, gratitude, meditation, respect, Jesus, Buddha nature, vipassana, Asia, religion, imagery, sacred art, Korean, monastery, convention Question_content: Questioner: There are some different things I wanted to ask. At some point you said this is an oral tradition, and I see that you do have figures here. And what is the role of having these figures in the practice? Larry: The question I want to make sure I understand it is what's his job up there? Questioner: Yeah, his job or figures like this. Larry: Yes. Relatively speaking, as many of you know, and most spiritual traditions have many more forms. Lots of chanting, lots of more ceremony. There's a bare minimum of it here. There is chanting. Very often on retreats, it may be dropped, and what you're left with is just silence. Maybe a bit of bowing, not much, but in most monasteries, there is a Buddha, and you'll see people bowing to the Buddha. I did when I came in here. When I bowed, I bow to the Buddha, the Dharma, and the Sangha. Now, when I bow to that figure, or if any of you should like to bow, I don't think that there's a little person inside of there, like there's someone inside there hiding inside of there. I don't think that if I ask him to, he's going to give me a bicycle. I know that that has been fashioned by someone. It's made out of, whatever it's made out of. The bowing, or that devotional quality, I'm basically doing it for me. Essentially what I'm doing is, I'm exercising the quality of appreciation, and gratitude. Now, that's why if you do it, that's why we don't require it here. I have been…the first Buddhist center that I participated in, everything was required. And so, we were bowing, and doing all kinds of things, and I just felt like a trained seal, or a monkey, because I didn't know what I was bowing for, and I just did it. It was sort of paying my dues, so that I could get what I really wanted, which is meditation. Break_line: When I bow now, I love to bow. I didn't always. For years, I didn't. I sort of (grrr) that was just kind of for ignorant people, and superstitious people. It changed when gratitude for the teachings of the Buddha became not just some kind of romantic, or sentimental thing, but the practice itself yielded enough fruit for me to really be appreciative, that this training has been kept alive for so long, and that they're actually teachers who have kept it alive, and some of them have handed it on to me. And so, when I do that, in a sense, it's opening my own heart, that's all. After all, the Buddha doesn't need me to bow. He could care less. This figure or anywhere else, so much of it is to develop respect. Break_line: Also, when you see somebody bow to the Buddha, it's hard to know at what level they're bowing. If you go to Asia, many of the people who are bowing, it's on the level of superstition of popular religion, where they feel if they're bowing to the Buddha, that something good will happen to them. It's coming from outer space or someplace, the Buddha will do something of that sort. But there are also those who understand that the Buddha is still alive. But Buddha nature, that is. But it's in our own heart. So that you're really bowing to the highest potential that you have, and you're using a form, it's a conventional form to help mobilize that. If you get to the point where you don't need it, great. But for many of us, it adds a certain quality to the practice. And if a lot of people are doing it, and they all are doing it, not just as monkeys, they're doing it because they know why they're doing it. It can really add a dimension to the practice that's quite moving and beautiful. My own opinion is that it's too new in America for us to expect that. And that's why I'm just letting everyone unfold at their own pace. Is that enough or is it okay? Questioner: (inaudible) Break_line: Clearly, there was no Buddha image at the time of the Buddha. Right, there was just the Buddha. And in all religions, the imagery, sacred art, and so forth starts to happen after many years when Jesus is gone, when the Buddha is gone, something is needed to mobilize a certain kind of feeling, which is part of the practice. When I said that Vipassana is very plain, what I mean is we don't use a whole lot of that. Although even there there's some variation. In some monasteries, they'll chant twice a day. In others, not at all. Or they'll chant twice a day, except when there are retreats, and it's totally silent. Usually there will be some bowing. I went to... Break_line: Maybe we'll end with this one. You may like this. I don't know what was in back of your question, but at one point in Korea, the same mischievous teacher, who made me lead a retreat with no one there. Questioner: You were there. Larry: I was there. You're right. See, I still haven't fully learned the lesson. So, he told us that we were going to see one of the most beautiful Buddhas in all of Korea. And there were three of us, and we couldn't wait. And so, there was a long train ride, and then we came to this mountain, and it was a pouring rain, and we made our way up the mountain, and a few of us kept falling down in the mud, and we were soaked and miserable. But he kept us going by saying that this was a really beautiful Buddha. It was one of the most ancient and beautiful ones in Korea. Break_line: Finally, after about a half a day of misery, we got to the top, and there was this monastery. We walked inside and there was this very large, clean space. Many of you will like this, and there was nothing in it at all, except a sign in Korean. And then we said, well, what does that mean? And what it said was, for those of you who can't see the Buddha in this room, please go back downhill, and practice a little harder. And that's really true. But then if you get attached to that, in other words anytime there's a Buddha oh, that just superstition. Those people are dopey and stupid. I believe in the true thing. You know, it's another kind of attachment. You know, it's a convention, and the meaning is what we give to it, and for it helps me. So, I bow to the Buddha. I love the Buddha. I love to bow to him. But if you don't want to, that's okay. End_time: 01:30:31