Kaitlin Burgess

Two friends, Brock and Andy, are hosting a podcast called "We Are The Ordinary." They have a guest named Caitlin Burgess, who is the first in her family to leave New Zealand and come to the United States to play basketball. Caitlin shares her experience of moving to the US at 17 years old and joining a high school basketball team in Utah. She talks about the culture shock she experienced and how different it was from New Zealand. Despite initial nerves and unfamiliarity, Caitlin quickly became close with her aunt, uncle, and cousins who lived in Utah. She also discusses her love for basketball and her goal of playing college basketball in the US. Yeah, introduce people. Okay. Don't blow it. Welcome to We Are The Ordinary. Is that your radio voice? Yeah, we never do introductions. I feel like you have a career. Oh, well, like I said last week, I quit my job. Who's gonna replace Will Arnett when he's done with the GMC trucks? Nobody. You can't replace a legend. How about Subaru? Subaru's gonna be looking for you. Subaru? Oh, okay. Well, yeah. Either way, you just did a great job introducing everybody and welcoming them to our third episode of the We Are The Ordinary podcast. I'm Brock. I'm Andy. And we couldn't be more excited to have you here today. And this is the best introduction we've ever done. This feels professional. This feels professional. Each week, it gets a little more professional. Yeah, and I'm a little nervous. I'm just gonna say that because we have a guest on today that I don't know at all. I met five minutes ago. Is that weird? A little bit, a little bit. I mean, I'm more nervous that it's weird for her, but she seems pretty comfortable with you, so we'll be okay. Let me tell you something that you'll learn later. Okay. She's used to being thrown out into the wild. Oh, is that a little foreshadowing? On her own tippy. Okay. She's used to just being thrown out there and trying to figure things out. So don't, she's not uncomfortable. Okay. As long as she's not uncomfortable, I'm not uncomfortable. Brock, how are you doing, man? I'm doing good. In fact, speaking of uncomfortable, I was just reminded not to get too far off topic here and to steer away from our guests, but you always make people uncomfortable, but I love it. So one time, Andy and I went to the movies with our wives and I was in line for concessions at the movie theaters. Okay, well, being the cheapskate I am, I smuggled some hot Somalis in. I'm refilling my mug, refilling my, everything's a refill, because heaven forbid I buy full-price stuff, right? And what does Andy do? Like, as I get close, hey, Brock, what's in your pocket? Brock, what's in your pocket? Did you buy those? Do you remember that? I don't remember doing that. I was trying to get you busted. You were trying to get me busted for stealing hot Somalis. Made a scene, made me uncomfortable, but that's the type of thing you do. You ran away. Now I'm remembering. You just sat in the car while the three of us finished the movie. I dropped them and ran. Even though I brought them. I was gonna say $4.75, okay? Okay. You almost got me arrested. I'm sorry. Andy, I could not be more excited to have our guest here today. Let me tell you a little bit about her before I introduce her. Yes, please do. So, turning backwards, our guest today is the one and only Caitlin Burgess. Caitlin, how are you doing? Good, how are you? Good. The reason I hesitated to bring her on early is the moment she starts talking, one of us gets fired, because people will wanna listen to her, her accent, and you and I won't have a thing. Hey, Brock, will you shut up for a minute? Caitlin was talking. She was about to say something. So, I wanna tell you, everybody, how I know Caitlin. So, I don't know, 2016, 17, somewhere in there. Several years ago, we met the Burgess family through basketball, something you're well aware of. Your kids are involved. And when we first met them, Caitlin was the last person in the family that we met, because she was off playing college basketball. And the more we got to know the family, the more we fell in love with them. And Caitlin and I were just talking before we started about the first time we met. But the beauty of the Burgess family, and you'll know this real quick, you say you don't know her, by the time you leave, you'll be best friends. They are the kindest, most loving family, and you're instant friends, and the loyalty that they show is incredible. I wanted Caitlin to be on here today, because her story is super unique. And we'll get into that in just a minute. She may not think it's that big of a deal. She might think it's ordinary. Yeah. But it's not, it's extraordinary. I love her story, I love what she's persevered through. And I wanted her to share it. And so she might not think it's that big of a deal, but I think by the time you're done, Andy, you'll think it's a pretty big deal. I think it's a big deal already. So thank you, Caitlin, for coming on here. And thank you for that introduction. That was beautiful. That was beautiful. So this family, the Burgess family. Burgesses. Burgesseses? Burgess. Burgess family, Burgesses. You don't do Burgesses. Yeah, Burgesses. Singular. Yeah, singular. With the apostrophe at the end of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Let's clear that out now. There's a lot of people writing this down. Yeah, yeah. To save your letter. That's great, that's great. Caitlin, tell us a little bit about, here's what I want to talk about first, okay? Yes. I just mentioned how I met you, but your story is so awesome, because you were the first in your family to leave New Zealand and come to the United States. Am I right? How old were you? I was 17. 17 years old. Tell us a little bit about what led to that, why you did it. Why would you leave New Zealand? I want to move to New Zealand. First of all, before you start, I love New Zealand, and every New Zealander that I've met, every TV show, everything that comes out of New Zealand, I'm like, I'm instantly charmed by and just want to be a part of it. So you moved here when you were 17. Why? Just for opportunity to play basketball with family here. They live in Riverton, my dad's brother, so my uncle, and he has kids, and a couple of his kids are around my age. And so my uncle called up my dad one day and said, you know what, you should, you know, get her to come play with Jade, which is his daughter. And so he just said, you know, because basketball season is during our summertime, because your guys' winter is our summer. And so I thought, well, I'm not in school right now in New Zealand, so I might as well just come over here, go to high school for a few months, play during that season. So thinking it was just temporary. Yeah, it was initially temporary. It was from about December, end of November, through to February, end of February, when state championships and stuff is. And so that's when my school starts is February. So you don't buy into it. And you went back to school. So it's summer, and you said, I'm going to jump back into. But the thing is, I didn't do my schoolwork. Oh, here? So it came back to bite me in the butt later on. You thought you could just go away with playing basketball. Yeah, I just thought, because my dad said, just try it out. I've never left home before, so that was like quite scary for me. And then the first time I leave home is when I'm going across the world. Yeah, that's a big deal. You're not just driving four or five hours away. I mean, you're leaving the country. Yeah. And before I forget, and I'm not off topic, but I'm kind of steering us in a different direction. But before I forget, when did you start playing basketball? I started playing when I was about eight, and then I took it serious when I was 12. When you were 12, okay. Yeah. You'd played a bit. Yeah. Is the opportunity just not there in New Zealand? No. Women's basketball, or? No, it's just, everyone just plays a lot of different sports, but here people take it so serious, and they play one sport, and they stick to it. And so when I started loving basketball, I thought, okay, I want to take this a little more serious. And I saw that girls come over here, and they go play in college, and they just love it, the experience. So I thought, I want to get good enough so I can do that. So you just started putting in the work. Yeah, I just put in the work. You live with your aunt and uncle. Yeah. And do you try out on a high school team? No. So we had just finished our season, and towards the end, that's when my dad said, okay, do you want to move over there in like a month? And so we started putting a little bit of film together. He started recording some of my games. But my cousin was already on the team. She'd already played from freshman through her senior, and this was going to be her senior year, and it was going to be my junior year. And so they said, put some film together so we can show the coach, because I had missed the tryout. I wouldn't be able to make it to the tryout. And so they knew, the Burgess family, all my other older cousins, they played for the same coach at Riverton. And so he knew the family, and he knew that, you know, we take basketball serious. So he just trusted them, and we sent the film in, and he loved it. He loved it, so yeah. Tell me about the culture shock when you showed up here, like how different. Oh, it was so different. First of all, you're rolling in here in what, the fall, getting ready for winter? Yeah, so I'd never been in snow before, and so that was crazy. Was this your first time in Utah? Have you visited? No, so I'd been to Utah twice. Okay. In 2008, we did like a little family trip, and then that's when I first met those cousins, because I'd never met them before, and I was close with all my other cousins, and they lived in Australia and New Zealand. So then we did that, and then we came back in 2012, and yeah, I haven't been back since. For me, it was hard, because I didn't really know them. I knew them as my cousins in my family, but they were still kind of a little bit of a stranger to me. Yeah, they're only cousins you see at Sunday dinner. Yes, no, yeah, and you live around them, and even with our cousins in Australia, we would see them like about twice a year, and I was super close with them. So it was quite odd, like, you know, I know them, but I don't really. You gotta go live with them for. Yeah, literally living with them, and so that was quite, I was quite nervous for that, but yeah, we're super close with them. I just came from their house just now. So tell me, what did your friends think when you said, hey, I'm out of here? They thought it was so amazing. They were up there? Yeah. They thought it was cool? Yeah, well, it was just a few months, and that was their initial thought. It was just like, oh my gosh, like, that's so cool. Like, you get to experience something different, and then when I told them I was staying, they were quite sad. Oh, I bet. Yeah. Okay, I missed that part. Like, you were coming out here, just like, without thinking, and head back. Yeah. What made you decide to stay? I loved it. I absolutely loved it. What did you love about it? I loved the culture. I loved the opportunity of everything, you know? And the Utah people, they grew on me. Initially, I thought, oh, these people are a little bit weird. What did people think about Utah people? They were just so nice. I just, and New Zealand people, they're nice and very genuine, but they're not like, the approach is not like the most kindest people you would think. But when you like, you know, break through that shell, they're like the most genuine people, and they love you wholeheartedly. But here, I just thought, these people are so fake. Why are they so nice to me? Yeah. You know? No, yeah. And I just thought, oh, I don't like it. It was just different. And I'd never been around it before, but then when I, you know, was here longer, and I used to talk to my uncle about it, because they're from New Zealand. Like, they were born and raised. Right. They raised their kids here, but I just said to him, this is not, why are they so nice? Like, it's just so fake. And he said, no, they're just nice people. They're just genuine people, and they really are. I love Utah people. This is so kind. I don't know about your perception of Utah. I know. I feel like I always hear so many negative things about Utah. No, yeah. Oh, they're all fake. Oh, they're nice to your face. And then they go inside, and they won't let your kids play with their kids, and whatever nonsense. Well, that is refreshing to hear. Yeah. And I think the church has a huge impact on that, you know, like, because I went out of state, and the people aren't as warm. That's awesome. Yeah. You have that. That's really cool. So you come out here, you decide, well, maybe I'm going to stay here. What did mom and dad think about that? So my dad came and visited me during February. So it was around, like, Valentine's, mid-February. I'm trying to think about that. Mid-season? No, it's towards the end. Towards the end. So it was during, like, region play, I guess. So he came for a couple weeks, got to watch, like, three of my games, and he saw just how happy I was. I was just, like, in my element, you know, being able to just, the social life is so different. In New Zealand, it's very family-oriented, and you have friends in school, but you don't hang out with them necessarily outside of school as much. But here, it's like, oh, your friends are your family, and you just hang, you know, Kyle and Drew, they hang out every day. Yeah, Caitlin's brother and my oldest boy, Drew, have played basketball for as long as you guys. Yeah, literally. And they're doing everything together. So basketball, certainly, it's not just on the court, it's off the court. So you loved that. Yeah, I loved it. And yeah, he saw that and just thought, okay, well, we'll try and make the move. So backtracking, backtracking right now. My parents, they went into the green card lottery back in 2012. What's the green card lottery? So not everyone can live in America, right? So there's a lottery that they have, and it's very hard to get, that's why I call it the lottery, because it's very rare to get, and we got that, our family got that, and so it gave us an opportunity to move here. Do you have a certain timeframe where you have to do that, or? I think so, I think within the year, but correct me if I'm wrong, I don't know. No, it's okay. We will never correct you. If you made it up and you did it with confidence, we'd both be like, oh my gosh, I think we're out of it. Yeah. They have six hours to get out of the country, otherwise it goes to the next winner. The stories we would tell afterwards, people would be looking at us like, no, I don't think that's how it works. No. Okay, so your family gets this opportunity. Yes, but it was a very long process that we had to go through, and so that took a really long time, and then- Did you have to go back, I'm sorry. Did you have to go back for that to happen, or did you really want to stay here? This was like in 2012, so this was like well before we'd moved here, and because when we visited, my dad thought it would be a cool opportunity, but it's really hard, so he just thought, oh, why not? Probably not end up getting it, but we might as well just try, and so he did all the paperwork, and it took a long time, a month, maybe even a year, I think, and then we got through, and it was just like, no one gets that. Like, it's hard to get, and people just thought like, how did you get that? So I guess, you know, the blessing, huge blessing. And then my nana, which is my mom's mom, she was there by herself, and my parents were like, no, we don't really want to, you know? So we used to travel to Hawaii, because you have to be within the country every 365 days, and so we'd just go to Hawaii all the time. To keep the lottery active? Yeah, to keep the green cards active, and so we just did that every year, and in 2016, she passed, and so then my parents kind of thought, well, you know, maybe, maybe not, and you know, our life was comfortable back home. There was nothing really, you know, pulling us across here, and then that's when I came over, and my dad just thought, she loves it, why don't we just do it for one year? And so that was 2017, oh, that was the beginning of 2018, and then they said that they would come across that summer, so around June 2018, and so for a few months, they were packing up, figuring all their things out, and they said, we'll just do one year, and if we don't like it, we'll leave, and then my brothers loved it. So we've been here ever since. I think that's incredible, and I can't help but think, and I know your dad, I know your parents. Yeah. How cool. How cool that he comes out here. And they sacrificed. I'm sure he had a career. Yes, he did. What did your dad do? He was a physical therapist. A physical therapist. Obviously, that stuff doesn't, I'm not sure it really translates. Translates. Yeah, and it's a different lifestyle than what we have as well. What did dad do? She did a lot. I know. I want to make her happy, and he wouldn't do it. He'd say, no, you're coming back here. Yeah, and you're playing rugby. And you're playing rugby, all right. How cool is that? I know, I know. That's a dream of mine. I'd bring it up maybe a few times a year, but to move my family to New Zealand or Australia, those are my two, for like a year or two. Yeah, it's different, yeah. Just to have that life in their life of different cultures, different countries, like just the amount that you guys probably absorb in those first couple of years, versus just living day-to-day. It's just something I want to give my kids, and I probably never will. I don't know that my wife's ever gonna be on board. You know, I once, I don't know if you guys know this about me, but my oldest daughter, I once moved her from Riverton to South Jordan. Oh. And what I thought was going to be just a short time, was the rest of her life. We got it, we got it. Pull it together, Andy. No, I just think that's incredible. And hey, let's pause for a word from our sponsor. Great idea. I saw you. Did your phone go away too? But I have two of these. Oh, perfect. So Caitlin, you mentioned that your brothers loved it, and obviously they were younger. They're the same age. And obviously they were younger. They're a little bit younger than you. I mean, that has been pretty disruptive in their lives. Yeah. But they liked it. Yep. That's crazy. For all three of you kids to enjoy. There's bound to be one that's like, I want to go back, I want to go back. So, I mean, tell me about their experience. They were young too. Yes, they were so young, and I think initially they thought, what are we doing, you know? Kyle was great with change. Jacob, not so much. Jacob's the youngest. Yep, the youngest. How old was he when you moved here? He was nine. That's an age to move across the, anywhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think he was eight. So he was really young. And then Kyle was, I think, 10. Which is crazy. That's crazy. Yeah, they were, they, you know, they just did whatever. And then they came over and they started making friends at church and making friends at school. And then it just kind of was the norm for them. And Kyle, especially, he loves the social so much. He just lives for it. And so that was perfect for him. And then he loves basketball, and he wasn't very good in New Zealand. And then he came here and he started getting a lot better. And there's just so many opportunities, like I said. And so he started getting better and better and playing like his AAU, and then his band team, and then our high school. So it's been really awesome, especially for sports. How does the competition compare? Like you coming here your first season, how did you do that first season? I thrived. You thrived. You killed everybody. Maybe not killed. But you did good. Yes, I did good. You did really good. Yep. The girls' competitiveness in New Zealand is a little different. There's a lot of Polynesians. They're more fierce. Yeah, they're quite fierce. Thinner, stronger, faster, what? Yeah, way more physical. The way they play. It's just really physical. You're starting to knock on people's heads. Oh, definitely not. But I think it suited my style because I'm not the most physical basketball player. And so coming here, it was like a bit better for my game. You know, they love to shoot threes. Back home, it's just bully your way into the paint. So it was super nice for me in that way. And the coach just kind of let me do whatever and kind of let me take control a little bit. So that was really awesome. And the team accepted you starting? Yeah, the team accepted me. And they were so awesome. Like I said, Utah people are so kind. And when I first met everyone, the coach organized a bowling activity to meet me. And so we went to bowling. And I met them all and they just thought that I was like the coolest person they ever met. And I thought if that was me going to New Zealand, they'll be so standoffish, like, who is this girl? Really? Even if we showed up with a cool American accent? No, yeah. The American accent isn't cool over there? No, not at all. Hi, guys. I'm gonna get my jaw broke real quick. That's awesome. So yeah, you know, it's crazy. I'm listening to all these things. I'm thinking about how disruptive it could be for you and your siblings. And it all went pretty smooth. Like, that's crazy. I've literally, I joked about moving Hallie, but we've moved a couple of times and they might change schools or things like that. And it's been pretty hard for my kids to adjust to that. It wasn't like life changing, but it took a few months to settle in and meet new neighbors and friends and change schools. You're talking all the way across the country and it's going relatively smooth. Your dad was a physical therapist. Yeah. He changes his career for you. How hard was that? That was very hard. Especially for my mom, too. So she was an event manager and she was an event planner. And so she was used to having jobs and gigs and a bunch of different things all the time. And then coming here, she couldn't really do that. And so from her to go from being a mom, but also like a very busy work woman, to not working here. To being a Uber driver. Yes, yep, it was very hard. It was really hard for her. And then also, you know, they're just trying to find their feet in everything. A whole different career for my dad and he works in general contracting with my uncle. So it's been great for him now. Yeah, so something totally different. That's amazing. And they're quite older. They're not this young couple that came across and moved with their kids. They were in their 50s doing that, late 40s. And so it's been hard, but it's been great. And now they like it. They love it a lot, actually. But initially it was very hard and so it helped them grow. What good parents. I know. Amazing, they're awesome. I love them. I know, on the surface, I know a lot of things that you've been through, but I've never heard it in depth like that. And it just makes me love your parents even more. They're awesome. They'll do anything for us. To sacrifice for their kids. Can we get them here? Do you think if you call them they'd show up and we can just get there? 100%, that would be here in like six minutes. Perfect. And later we'd probably bring Lehi's donut. Oh, that would be funny. Yeah. Why didn't you think about that earlier? I don't know, I don't know. We'll need to collaborate. Yeah, yeah. Let's talk about your basketball career because I've watched it, I've loved to see it. So you go to Riverton High School, you end your career there, then what happened? And then I got recruited to CSI, College of Southern Idaho. And I really wanted to go to SLC. I did, because it was close to home. My cousins actually played basketball there too. It was familiar, but Heavenly Father wanted me to go to CSI and it was the best years of my life. Really? I loved it, like I really loved it. Well just that, I mean, when you came here to play basketball, was the goal to get a scholarship? Was that even in the cards? Were you thinking like that? Okay. My first year I just kind of wanted to have fun and it was all the adjustment, it was really hard. But then that last year I took it a lot more serious and that was the goal. Did you know CSI was looking at you? No, not until towards the end of my senior year. It was actually quite stressful. I didn't have them initially and so my dad said, you know, you've got to really start playing better. And I didn't have like the greatest senior year ever. You know him. But yeah, it was meant to be, it was just amazing and the way in which it happened was great. And then I went across, but it wasn't hard for me because I'd already been across. Yeah, that's a kidding. It was so easy and yeah, I ended up there. It was so amazing. And you played up there for a couple of years. Yeah. Had some success, thought your career was over, then what? So my first year there, it was actually quite hard. I broke my ankle like twice during the season at CSI. And so I really played, you know, I struggled a lot. I gained like a lot of weight too, you know, the freshman 15. And so I came back during COVID time. Our season got canceled and then my dad said, well, if you want to go D1, you got to start taking it serious and losing some weight. So that was the hardest working year I've ever worked. I really wanted to go D1 and I was manifesting it every day. I just wanted that so bad. And COVID was like the best thing to happen to me. Probably the worst thing for everyone else, but it was the best thing ever. Why? Why was COVID the best? Because I had to really isolate myself and set my goals. And I had all the time to do it. You know, I had no distractions, nothing was going on. No excuses. No excuses at all. So I just really committed myself for like three or four months. And yeah, I lost a ton of weight. I worked really, really hard. And then... So you're not practicing, you're not holding open gyms? No, nothing. You're on your own? Just purely running outside. Where do you put your socks up? In church? In church, yeah. Just put your on your own. Yeah, at my uncle's house, he has a hoop there. So I just go in there and gym. Okay, you came back here. You were back here? Yes, yes, yes, yes. So they kind of kicked us out because of COVID. And it was during March, I think. They said, everyone, you got to go home. So we finished. Yeah, March, that was that year, I remember that. Yeah. So then they told us we needed to go home, packed up our things and we got a pilot there. And so my dad said, if this is what you want and this is where you want your future to be led, you need to, you know, start taking it serious. And that was hard for me. I'm like, you know. I'm a college basketball player. I'm doing pretty good. I have two broken ankles. What do you want from me, Dad? There's a global pandemic and you're talking to me about my weight? I know. Get out of here. Oh my God. Oh, I know. But yeah, we set a goal and it was just, it was great. It was just, it was more of a learning opportunity for me. And I just came out of that. Like if I put my mind to anything, I can do it. So that's where it started. And then it just transferred into my basketball game. I was super confident that year. I ended up getting All-American, Duke All-American. What? The team all-conference. Yeah, we won regions and we won the conference. What? So we did really awesome. It was so fun. That's amazing. So in a time and a season where a lot of athletes probably hung it up. Yeah. And no, you know, there's no shame in that. Like that's a hard time. But you doubled down. Yeah. Got to work, went back stronger, faster. Did you lose teammates in that? Yeah. Lost a couple of teammates, especially international. Not to COVID. They didn't die from COVID, right? No, no, no. Thank you for clarifying. Yeah. I mean that, okay. Just for. But some people just said, I'm done. Yeah. Heading home. Yeah. And it was also really hard to come across through the whole COVID stuff from a different country. So. Wow. Yeah. So you came back, had a successful season there. And then what happens? Because basketball's not over for you yet. Yeah. So I started getting recruited by a bunch of different schools. Because of COVID, that year before, and they weren't sure if it was going to, you know, continue on through that second year. They, NJC came out and they said that they were giving our year of eligibility back. So everyone in division one and all the college sports, they got their year of eligibility back. So I said, I love this place so much. I'm coming back. So that was my plan. And a lot of different schools were recruiting me. And I just told them, no, I'm coming back for another year. Like. To CSI. To CSI. Yep. And I don't know how it happened, but I think I just prayed about it. And I thought, no, I think I need to grow more and not be comfortable where I'm at. And I just decided to go and play division one. Hey. Yeah. Division one. So where'd you get, where'd you end up? I ended up committing to Boise State. You don't know about Idaho. You don't know about Idaho. I know. But you went to Idaho for Mrs. Erickson. You got her a lot of love. I just love it so much. You hit your goal to play D1. Yes. Oh my. Again, guys, I, this is my first time hearing this story too, for all of our listeners following along. So that's why I'm reacting this way a little bit. If I seem more casual, it's because I too am a college athlete. I played at the University of Phoenix online. You had a great year. You had a great season. I had a great year. Do you have any eligibility left? Well, it's interesting, because as she started talking about it, I thought, well, maybe I have one left. I think you might. We'll look into it. Well, if you would love to. This isn't about me and my team. It could be. You could be the next guest on this, if you want. We'll figure it out. That would be so great. Yeah. That's a great idea. So here you are. You're the most driven human. I think about the age that you're at during all these, I mean, I had. And the excuses you had in your back pocket, too. So many times, but you're so driven. That. Thank you. Most people quit. Yeah. Most Americans quit at this point. Andy, actually, his slogan at his house is when they go and get stuff, quit. Just quit it. Quit it and forget it. Quit it and forget it and, you know, just live with the guilt of quitting. Yeah, it's not bad. What was that transition from CSI, junior college, to Boise State, the Blue Turf State? Yes. What was that like? Was that overwhelming? Or, again, you moved from New Zealand to the US. It was like, eh. No, it was really hard. Probably one of the hardest years that I had. Really? Because you go from, you know, being one of the best to everyone's the best. Because even in junior college, everyone is like. They're really good. Yeah, they're really good. But they've never been, like, the best in their state. Otherwise, they would have been D1 from freshman year. You know what I mean? It just levels up. It just, yeah. So, you know, I went on to a team with a lot of different types of people. And so that was really hard for me to, like, connect with them in a way. And, you know, it was still a little bit of COVID times and we had to wear masks in practice and everything was just so strict. We got COVID tested, like, almost every day. So that was, like, really hard for me, like, because CSI was just very chillaxed with the whole COVID thing. Yeah, just happy you were there. Yeah, but because it was a big school, they had to be really serious about it. And the conference made them do specifics for all that COVID stuff. So that was really hard. And I ended up catching COVID. So they sent me home and I had to quarantine for two weeks. So that was also kind of quite hard on my mental health. Yeah. If you're keeping track, that's 22 times she could have quit and no one would have. I have 23 on mine, but, okay. That's pretty good that you persevere. Like, you just keep... Yep. So, you know, tried to fight through it. And, you know, it was just very hard in the sense of trying to connect with different types of people and ego. That was really hard for me. Yeah, everyone's just used to being the best of the best. And even coaching-wise, it's a business, you know? So you don't really share that deep connection that I did personally at CSI. And so it was just all around a struggle, but amazing opportunity. Like, I did love it at the same time. So you start, and Andy doesn't know this, and I hope you know what I'm alluding to. So you get started in your first year at Boise State. And I remember vividly watching your mom or dad show us footage of you in the gym when this happened. So here's reason 24 she could have quit. What happened? I tore my ACL. Oh. During the season. So it was around December. Was it in-game or? Practice. Okay, practice. I was, I played a lot that year, which I'm so grateful for. And I was just kind of starting to like, really get my feet wet and getting comfortable. And I started playing a lot better. And then December comes, and this was like right before Christmas break. That next day we were leaving to go back home. So I was so excited. And then I tore my ACL in practice. What did you do? I was throwing a post-entry pass, non-contact at all. There was no contact. Have you had previous knee issues? No, never. And bad knees run in the family that I moved across to live with. They have really bad knees. And so I heard all the stories of the ACLs and the sounds that you hear, like the pop and all the different things. Are you blaming that family? Do you inherit it somehow? Like you caught COVID from them and you caught bad knees from them too? Serious. Sabotage, sure. Yeah. Me too. Okay, keep going. But so I tore it and I just knew I tore it right away. I just heard the pop and I just freaked out. And it wasn't painful at all, but it was scary. And so then it was funny because my dad always does the, because he was a physical therapist. So he always did the ACL tests on me to see how my knees felt. And he said I had like the strongest knees that he'd felt like my strongest ACLs, you know? And so I was like, oh, that's never like, that's never gonna be me, you know? And he did it to my cousins and theirs were loose. And so he thought, you know, that all of that's bound to happen. So for me, I was never a thought. And then it happened. And then I just, I was so shocked. I didn't even, I didn't even know what to do. And so then I ended up getting surgery. I had to sit that year out. I played too many games, so I couldn't red shirt. And so I was like, oh my goodness, I'm like, you know, I only got two years left, whatever. Dan, my, that's a, it's like a 12 month process. So like super long. And there's a lot of it, the first, the first five years, there's nothing you can do about it. Yeah, you literally can't. You just sit there and. Have you had any knee problems? I don't know, I've only, I have. I know, I don't want to bring up the ankles again from last week. But have you ever torn your ACL? The problem, the thing is, I'm just too coordinated for any serious injury is what I've told myself. I've always kind of wanted to tear an ACL or something, just a habit, you know, be like, oh yeah, I had to stop playing ball after, you know, I tore both ACLs. You know, they stopped church ball, right? There's nothing you would do. No, okay, well. You never heard the pop. I've never heard a pop, and I've always wanted to, and I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful that maybe this summer, this summer, it's gonna happen. Maybe, maybe, yeah, when my kids get good enough to beat me, and that's when I'll tear an ACL. You hear that, Hank? You hear that? Lose some weight and get to work. All right, network. You just want an excuse. Once they get as good as you or better, you want an excuse. Ah, you got good at the money. Exactly. Taylor, did you want to give up at that point? Yep, I did. Finally, finally. Yep, there we go. She's human. Finally, she wants to quit. Like, that had to have been a lonely time. You talk about the mask, the test, the distance. It was weird for you. Yeah, it was. Yeah, everyone, it wasn't. You just must, you continue to leave your comfort zone. That's crazy. So, you want to give up at this point. Yep, I just thought it wasn't easy. The end, the end. Yeah, no, it just was kind of a hard adjustment initially, and it just kind of carried on through, and when I tore it, I was like, ah, okay, I'm done. I don't want to do this anymore, you know? But, you know, my parents, they're awesome, but at the time, I just said, you know, is this worth it? Like, I don't want to do this anymore, and they said, no, suck it up. Yeah, yeah, suck it up. So, I had to suck it up, which I'm so grateful for now that I'm, you know, past that stage, and I came out with a degree, but at the time, I was just really ready to be done. So, you graduated. You got a degree. Yes. Congratulations. Thank you. That's amazing. What did you get your degree in? Business Administration. Oh, perfect, perfect. I have a lot of follow-up questions on degrees, and I'm glad I asked that. I'm a real... That's what I call it. Oh my gosh, you're like... No, that's incredible. Like, you just, your example of perseverance is just out of this world, and you're too young to have all of this wealth of knowledge. Like, it's so cool, and I keep, I admire your parents for pushing you through it, because I know that, I'm certain it was hard for them not to say, come home. Yes. Come home. You gave it your best. Yes. Right? Yeah, no, all the glory goes to them, honestly. Like, I'm not who I am without them at all. They push you, too. They do. They push me to my absolute limit. Yeah, they're tough. They're tough, but it's definitely made me, you know, I would not have gone this far without them, so. So, you recover, you get back on the court, you finish up at Boise State. You just graduated, which is awesome. Congratulations. Thank you. But, you're not done. I'm not done. Now what? Can we even talk about it? Yeah, no, we can. Oh, is this an announcement? Yeah, this is the official announcement. Yeah, this is the official announcement. I'll be Sam. Or Sean. Sean. So, now what? I just committed, verbally committed to Weaver State. What? Yes. Yeah. So, you're gonna be playing this year for Weaver State. Take that, Idaho. Yeah, suck it, Idaho. We'll take your finished products and claim them as our own. So, what made you decide, I mean, you just graduated. You went through, I mean, that was a tough run at Boise State. Yes, it was. A lot of hard lessons learned. Yes. You could have just hung it up. I know you like to coach, and you probably wanna get on with the career, but you're like, no, I'm gonna just play, and what convinced you to do that? So, initially, I was done. I said, no, I'm done, you know. I already did my five years, which you're only really usually doing four, post-COVID. I did my fifth, and I told myself I redshirted another year, so now I can do my sixth. But I thought, I'm gonna be 24, almost 25, playing with like 18-year-olds. You know, it's just time to move on. No. You know? No, I know, I know. And so, you know, my parents were like, do it, they were down for whatever I wanted to do, and the way I ended up with my three-year-old. Finally, finally, they let you make a decision. Okay. But the way I finished my career off at Boise, I just thought, I want it to be a great last year. Yeah. I don't want to look back and say, dang it, I should have done it. Because I've talked to lots of different types of people that hung them up early, had one more year left, and they look back now, and they're like, oh, I should have just did it. Yeah. You know? So I didn't want to regret that, because you can't get it back. So, I went in the portal. My goal was to just stay close to home. I didn't want to go anywhere far, so I shut down all the schools that were out of state. So you get, when you enter the transfer portal, as a college athlete, you can kind of pick the regions, or teams, or what do you, how does that work? No, so they contact you. So your name's in the portal, it has all your stats, all the things about you, and the schools that are looking for your position, or whatever. Gotcha, okay. So they contact you. And so those schools that contacted me, I just shut it down, I just wanted to stay close to home, anywhere in Utah. Which is a big risk, because you might not get the chance. Exactly, that was a fear of mine. And Weber State reached out, and I went on the visit, I loved it, it was great. That's amazing. You're gonna live out there, or are you gonna commute? I'll live out there. Okay, I mean, it's not an easy commute, so I figured, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you excited? Yeah, I am. She's got Damien Lillard's old dorm, right? Yeah. Yeah. Let's move beyond him, and let's start talking about that being Caitlin Burgess's school. Okay, we'll get after this year. So, but wait, this year is kind of the dream, too, because it's just basketball. You don't even have to worry about school, right? This is like, when you transferred. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. You have to take up to 12th grade. Oh. To be eligible to play. But, can you take it easy? Like, I always hear, it's not like these non-graduate students that are playing football, and they're taking, yeah, whatever. Ceramics or something, yeah. Yeah, so. You have to take 12 credits. Yeah, I have to take 12 credits. But, when I talked to my academic advisors, you just said, you know, you can kind of take whatever classes you feel like. There's like a hiking class, yoga. So. I might go back to college. Yeah, you should, literally. Yeah, maybe a transfer's scary. I'm gonna put my name in the transfer portal, put my height, put my stats. I got great ACLs that have never been torn. Unlike Caitlin over there, damaged goods. I'm fresh heat, all right? Just listen up. Yeah, he is. Yeah, I got six years. I got six years ahead of me. So, you can't, like, the pressure won't be on your classes. I mean. No, yeah, no. But, again, you can go get your master's. I know. Which is, I thought that, I've had so many different thoughts. I'm like, I could do a whole different undergrad, or I could do my master's, or I could just have a year of fun. Have a year of fun. And do yoga. Yeah, and try and get really flexible and just focus on basketball. Yeah. Yeah. And that was my initial plan, you know. A lot of people say, you should just do it and do your master's, but I don't know exactly what I wanna do after college. And so, for those that do, that's great. But for me, I just wanna play basketball. Well, and now there's money in it, too, in college sports. You know, it doesn't have to be dirty anymore. Yeah, I know. Um, you know. I mean, there was always a lot of money in college sports, but now it's legal, I guess? Yeah. Um, so, and I know you mentioned something about Gatorade and NH, or NIL deal. Sorry, no, Powerade? Yes. Powerade. Yes, Powerade, yeah. Well, we're drinking some right here. So, wait, you have a deal with Powerade? What's the deal with that? Can we talk about these things? Yeah, yeah, we can. I don't know what's legal and what's not, and he obviously doesn't care. I don't care. He's using a copyrighted song for the intro. He's the edgy one. Remember, he's the one trying to sell me out to Mega Plus Steel. Oh, right. Yeah. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's got a record. Yeah, tell us about it. That's pretty cool. Yeah, so, I'm doing March Madness. Powerade is the March Madness sponsor. And so, they reached out to a bunch of different athletes throughout the country. And, yeah, they hit me up, which I was really surprised about. Because all of, like, the big names were the ones getting the deal. And I thought, this is so cool. The other Caitlin's out there. Basically, Caitlin Clarke on this one. Yeah, she really cleaned up this last March. Yeah, so it was so awesome. You know, I got to promote them and post on my social media and get paid for it, which was, you know, the greatest part. That's really cool. Yeah. That's amazing. There's no one more deserving. I hope that they know your story. Because that's crazy. Yeah. Caitlin, you could have quit a million times. I have two questions that I want to end with. And one of them is not serious, but it is serious to me. When you're out there shooting around pre-game, what is your playlist? Who are you listening to? So, we weren't allowed to have headphones during the pre-game. What? So, on the way to the game. It's COVID. It is. I know. It's COVID time. You couldn't use your headphones. I know. You couldn't hear. But on the way to the game. Okay, so you're on the team, Bob. Yes. I am kind of, like, weird a little bit. No, no. I like to listen to slow music. Okay. So, like, really slow, like, R&B type music. Where a lot of people love, like, rap. There's no judgment here. I love, like, Usher. Oh, I cannot believe she's not listening to that. She just dropped. Okay. I apologize. Lil' Usher? Yeah. Usher. I love, like, Luther Vandross. I love Stevie Wonder. Okay. This is, yes. This is a little weird. But I like it. It's odd. You know, it is a little odd. But for me, when I get too, like, anxious, and my head starts pounding a little bit, I start playing terrible. So I like to, like, slow my thoughts down, slow my heart rate down. And it helps me, personally. No, I'm a super anxious person, so that's what I would probably be listening to, the slower, calmer stuff, you know? Yeah. But what you would think, like, oh, rap. Like, all athletes listen to rap. Which is the normal thing. I love the phrase, like, Luther Vandross. I know. I know. I know. I know my teammates are, like, head-bumping. She's calm. Well, I can hear Luther, guys! Keep it down! And my feelings, of course. I love it. I love it. Yeah. There's no judgment here. Andy's a big Luther Vandross fan. Oh, is that so? No, really. Well, my apology. He's a big Luther Vandross fan. Both. I celebrate both of their work. Okay. You have taught Andy and I so much. I mean, like I said, I knew a lot about you, but what do you say to that college kid or that high school kid that has every reason to give up? What do you have to say to them to move forward? I just think, you know, pushing yourself to the limit in your sport, but also mentally, is really hard. But if you stick to something and you come out the other end, you're just so happy that you did it. There's no regret. And I think, you know, I'm at the other end now where those last couple of years of my college career, I wanted to quit so bad and it was really hard and I shed a lot of tears and, you know, called my parents crying so many times, but now I'm just so glad that I stuck with it. And I think it's just gonna help me, not just with my basketball, but with my future, my future life. I learned how to work hard, I learned how to do hard things and I learned how to stick with something and stay committed the whole time. That's amazing. Which I'm so grateful for. And like, your parents, if they listen to this, that's all you want to hear your kids say. As a parent? Yeah, like you taught them how to do hard things, that they can get through it, that they can push through, and then they're happy that they even did it. Like that's the goal of a parent, right? You have to teach your kids how to survive, how to thrive, how to push, and not quit on yourself. So my hat's off to you. What were your parents' names again? Pat and Mary? Yeah. Stuart and Linda. Stuart and Linda, oh my gosh. Way to go, Stuart and Linda. Thank you. No, they're awesome, they're awesome. Yeah, they're not gonna let you quit. Yeah, no, they won't. But you learned a valuable lesson in that. Yes. When you are wise beyond your years, Oh, thank you. it's great what you've experienced and how many times you could have said, to heck with this. Yeah. No one would have blamed you, no one would have thought any different of you, but you are just an example for good. A true testament of hard work truly does pay off, and I hope you have the funnest year of your basketball career this year. I really do. I hope it's a riot. I can't wait to, next time you see Andy and I, we'll be wearing Caleb Burgess jerseys. Yeah, a little purple and white. Is that we were space colors? Yeah. Yeah, it is, right? We'll go to a game. We'll go to a game. I wonder if we can broadcast. Do a live pod from the game? No, we'll be sideline, we'll go ask her questions, you know, during time out. Caitlin, set that up. Set that up for us. We need to get her kicked off of the team. Yeah, yeah. She had an amazing career until she invited Andy and Brock up there, and then it all went to heck. Oh, no. Caitlin, thanks so much. Thank you so much for having me. But for you to come hang out with a couple old guys is really, really cool. Oh, no. This is so fun. We'll be rooting for you forever. When basketball's over, we'll still be, and there's so many good things for you to come, because of the lessons that you've taught all of us. So, best of luck. Thank you. And we're so happy for you. Thanks so much for spending time with us. Thank you so much. Thanks, Caitlin.