Let's Talk 4.28.24 Lima Abdullah

Let's Talk with Brian Pettaway discusses various topics including DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) and the banning of its teachings in certain states. The show also covers the recent opening of a limited channel in the Port of Baltimore, allowing cargo ships to leave after the Key Bridge collapse. The principal of a high school in Pikesville, previously accused of making racist remarks, has been cleared of all charges, and it was discovered that an AI-generated recording was used for revenge by the athletic director. The show emphasizes the need for stricter penalties for AI fraud and highlights the damage caused by rushing to judgment. The mayoral race in Baltimore is heating up, with negative ads being aired by candidates Sheila Dixon and Brandon Scott. The low standards for mayoral candidates are criticized, and Scott's emphasis on being scandal-free is seen as a given for public office. It's time for Let's Talk with Brian Pettaway. Good morning, happy Sunday, and welcome to Let's Talk. I am your host, Brian Pettaway, otherwise known now, I guess, as Brother B. Now, my brother, the petty, started that stuff on this show when we first aired, and apparently now it has stuck. A few people have referred to me this weekend as Brother B when they've seen me, and it kind of caught me off guard. But, you know, I've been called a lot worse than Brother B, so I'll take it. It's kind of cool, actually. Got a great show for you today. I'm going to talk to you about DEI. Now, I've got a guest who's what you might call an expert in the area of DEI, which stands for Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion. And I want to speak to her, and I want her to speak to us, as to why it was such a popular thing, why it was deemed at one point such a positive thing that every company and university should have within their systems, and now it's being vilified across the country, banned in two states of the Union, Texas and Florida. And it looks like 18 other states in the Union are also proposing laws to ban the teachings of DEI in their states. So, as you can imagine, I'm very excited and eager to speak to her about what's going on with DEI in this country. Also, I've got the Petty, of course. He's with me every week. Love having him here. He's going to talk sports with us. And you've got me. I'm going to give you news and commentary of that news from the past week. And also, our fun facts is coming back this week. I've got those on deck as well. So, I hope you're feeling great, because I'm feeling great. And like every week, I've got lots to talk about, so let's get right to it. All right. As you can imagine, there's a lot going on in the city of Baltimore, in particular, the huge race for mayor. That's a big thing that's going on. But before I get to that, and I don't want to leave it out because it's very important, I have to talk about something first that's pretty big and pretty important to the city and to the state. And that is almost a month to the day of the Key Bridge collapse. There has now finally been a limited channel open that is wide enough that cargo ships can finally get through and leave Baltimore Port. The channel is about 35 feet deep, and several ships, which have been stuck in the Port of Baltimore for weeks, are now scheduled to leave. Jonathan Daniels, the executive director for the Maryland Port Administration, described the first vessels through the channel as a small win. He said, we still have a long way to go before we open it up, but even at that point, there is still a lot of work to do getting cargo back. He said that they have been talking with stockholders and companies to make sure that the cargo that had to be rerouted from Baltimore can return. There's a lot of money involved in not getting cargo back to the Port of Baltimore. A lot of money. It's about $192 million of lost economic impact on a daily basis. Things like the jobs, the movement of cargo, all of those things create income. And without them, we're losing that kind of money each day. So yeah, it's very important that we get ships out, but it's just as important, maybe more important, that we're able to have ships come back in. According to Governor Wes Moore, on an update that he gave earlier this week, crews have already cleared almost 3,000 tons of wreckage and steel from the water. But even with that kind of speed, urgency, and efficiency, the governor warns that it's still going to take many months before we're back up and running. Also in the news this week, an update on a previous story that was reported on in January of a Pikesville high school principal allegedly caught on tape making disparaging remarks, even racist or anti-Semitic remarks, about students, colleagues, and even parents. Well, I said at the time that after listening to that tape multiple times, that it could very well have been an AI-generated recording. And to not rush to judgment, because these days you just don't know. At that time, the Baltimore County School Board really had no choice but to relieve Principal Eric Eastward of his duties until the investigation had been completed. Well, all of the investigations have been completed. And when I say all, I'm referring to not just the Baltimore County School Board's investigation, but also the Baltimore County Police Department and the FBI's forensic analysis team. All of them have completed their investigation, and not only has Principal Eric Eastward's name been cleared, but there has been an arrest. It appears this whole disgusting act, this whole thing, is based on revenge. In a press conference held earlier this week, this is how the Baltimore County's chief of police described the situation. It's been determined the recording was generated through the use of artificial intelligence technology. Through their investigation, detectives allege Mr. Darien, who was the athletic director at the high school, made the recording to retaliate against the principal, who had launched an investigation into the potential handling of school funds. Chief Robert McCullough also stated in a press conference that Dijon Darien, 31 years old and the athletic director at the high school, was interviewed when the tape was released. And in that interview stated that he received the recording of the principal through email. The FBI's forensic team, through the IP address, was able to trace the origins of that recording of the principal back to Darien's grandmother. The Baltimore County Police Department did issue a warrant for Darien's arrest, and when they found him, he was at the airport. Now, no one knows for sure if he was trying to flee, but it certainly looked that way. Chief McCullough, in this press conference, details how that warrant and that arrest was executed. All we know is that he was at the airport, and he was getting ready to board a flight to Houston. At that time, he had a firearm with him. There was some concern about the way the firearm was checked and packaged, and that caused the Maryland Transportation Authority police to look further into him. The 31-year-old Darien is facing four charges, including stalking, retaliation, disturbing operations, and theft. Since his arrest last week, he has posted bail, and is expected in court for his hearing on June 11. Alright, so there are really two things that I take away from this whole situation. And one is AI, as we know, is and will be a huge problem with fraud. And I think the only way to kind of prevent, or at least deter, things like this from happening in reference to AI fraud, is to make the penalties so stiff that people really think two and three times before they attempt something like this. It can't be a slap-on-the-wrist situation. Because the other thing I take away from it is how much this principal probably suffered from January until now, before his name was cleared. People dragged this man's name through the mud. I mean, it wasn't just a Baltimore or Maryland local thing. I saw this on CNN. This was a national story. And it's hard to come back from that. It's really hard to come back from that once your name is out there as a racist or an anti-Semite. It's out there, especially in the climate in which we live today with Israel and Gaza going on. This man suffered, I'm sure, a lot. In fact, he didn't even have a job from January until now. Sure, he got paid, but he wasn't doing what he loved to do. And his reputation was completely stained because people rushed to judgment. And here's the even sadder thing for me as being a part of the media, is we in the media love to sink our teeth into something juicy like this story when it first came out in January. We dragged this guy's name, Principal Eric Eiswert, through the mud. We really did. It was a national, sensational, juicy story about racism and anti-Semitism. And we just couldn't get enough of it. It's still all over the internet. You can't take it down. But we did not build this guy. It wasn't the same kind of urgency to clear his name once we realized it wasn't him. And it should have been. Actually, this story is a real-life cautionary tale that should be told all over the place about how careful we have to be when it comes to AI. And how careful and more diligent and more vigilant we're going to have to be when we hear things that just sound a little bit off. Now, as of right now, Eric Eiswert is not sure if he's going to return to being a principal at a high school. He just doesn't know. He says that his family was an actual harm. He got death threats. He got physical threats against his family for what people thought he said. The other thing that's really crazy to me is that when Darien goes to court on June 11th, his stiffest penalty for all of this will be six months. And that is because there are no AI laws that he has broken because they don't exist. What he's being charged with is interference of daily operations of a high school and stalking. Six months will be his stiffest penalty. His punishment and the way that what he has done has affected this man and his family, I mean, it's just not severe enough. I mean, that's just my opinion. It's not severe enough. All right, at the beginning of the show, I mentioned that I was going to talk to you about the race, the mayor's race here in the city. It's gotten to the point now where the gloves are off. I've been watching the ads on TV. I know that you've seen the senior ones that I've seen in reference to Sheila Dixon and Mayor Scott. They're really kind of going at each other right now. I'm really, it's very entertaining to watch. But at the same time, it's sad to watch as well because the bar has been set so low to be mayor in this city that Brandon Scott literally is running on the theme that he is a mayor without scandal, which if you're running for public office and the public trust of a city, that should be a given, right? Well, it's not, obviously, especially when you see the ad that he runs against and about Sheila Dixon. One of the ads that he runs is all about Sheila Dixon's troubles that she had when she was mayor of the city previously, the stealing and the lying and the embezzlement. All of those things are played out for everyone to see. And I just found it sad that people are looking at the city of Baltimore and wondering, how is someone like that even a close second to the incumbent? It's a curious thing for me as well, but Sheila Dixon is. So as I mentioned last week, if Brandon Scott manages his spotlight time, of which he's getting much because of the tragedy of the Key Bridge, then he could win in a landslide because right now, not only is there national favor being shown to the city of Baltimore because of the tragedy of the Key Bridge, but there's also being local favors shown to the man who's managing the city where this tragedy happened. So as long as he manages that spotlight properly, which so far I think he's done a very good job of, he doesn't really have to campaign very hard. He's in the driver's seat and he's getting national attention. And locally, he's on TV every day. He can't buy the kind of TV presence that he's getting because of this bridge. He couldn't buy it. His campaign would not be able to afford all of the TV presence and radio coverage that he's getting right now because of the Key Bridge. And he's managing it well. So I guess what I'm saying is he doesn't really need to run the smear campaign. He doesn't need it. And I'm hoping that it doesn't backfire on him. All right, on the national front, Donald Trump, as we know, is in court with his hush money trial. And he's already violated his gag order twice and there has been no consequences for it. I don't know how that works. The jury pool has been selected. He comes out right after that and says that it is not a fair jury. And then went after the judge and said that the judge is being unfair as well. Here's the question that I have for you. How many people do you think, other than Donald Trump, could get away with violating a gag order twice, back to back, and nothing happened to them? There was a CNN poll that was conducted by SSRS. And it finds that most of the country was divided over whether he was being treated more harshly or more leniently than other defendants. Where the country is not divided is whether his behavior during the trial thus far has been inappropriate. 42% says yes, that has been inappropriate. And 25% say no, it's been appropriate. Now, we, who are not of the cult of Trump, clearly see that his behavior is absolutely inappropriate. The question is, why can't the judge see that? Why has the judge not slapped him with contempt? Why is he not sitting in jail? Where is the line drawn where he can just say and do whatever he wants before the judge steps in and puts him in handcuffs? I don't get it. I don't understand why he has so much latitude. I understand that he's a former president. But according to Lady Justice, no one is above the law. Right? I mean, we know that's kind of a joke, right? But it's weird to see it played out front and center every single day. So, listen, the man is in trouble. His former personal attorney just testified against him, Michael Cohen, who knows where all the bodies are buried. So, I mean, let's just see what happens. All right. And the very last thing I wanted to talk about today, I'm going to keep it brief because we've got a lot of show left. I want to speak about and keep in our thoughts and our prayers all of the students around the country at universities and college campuses who are just trying to exercise their constitutional right of lawful and peaceful assembly and freedom of speech. They're just trying to have sit-ins on a lot of these campuses just to demonstrate how they feel and to petition against the genocide that they feel that is occurring in Gaza and Palestine. They feel that the country in which we live is supporting this genocide. They feel that our government, including our president, is not handling the situation the way that we should. They feel that we are fueling the beast, feeding the beast, and we are not helping the Palestinians as much as we should be. Now, whether they are right or whether they are wrong, I happen to believe that they are right. But if they are right or wrong, as long as they are assembling peacefully, as long as they are not bullying, they are not destroying property, as long as they are not inflicting harm on other people, they should be allowed to assemble. But what's happening is, to appease the powers that be, which apparently are Jewish powers within this country, they are being run off of campus, they are being arrested and forced to stop their demonstrations, although they are peaceful, simply because they do not agree what Israel is doing and how the American government is still backing Israel. Listen, you don't have to agree with everything that's going on in the country. That's one of the greatest things about this country, supposedly, is that we are allowed to have a difference of opinion and not be penalized for voicing those differences of opinion, as long as we do it peacefully. That's not what's happening in this country today. You've got professors who are being fired simply for telling the truth about what's happening over in Palestine. You've got university presidents being fired or lambasted because they are not making these kids stop. These kids stop their protests. And of course you have the kids themselves being harassed, being arrested, being stifled, only because they don't agree with the powers that be. And trust me, the Jewish power is very strong in this country. Now, I am not anti-Semitic, I don't hate Jewish people, but I know a bully when I see a bully. And the bullying is heavy in this situation. Alright, it is now time for the segment called Sunday Fun Facts. I love doing these. It's been a couple of weeks, but I love doing the Sunday Fun Facts. My first Sunday Fun Fact today of three is human teeth. Our teeth is the only part of the body that cannot heal itself. One more time, human teeth is the only part of the body that cannot heal itself. And the reason why is because when compared to bones, which have plenty of blood vessels running through them, tooth enamel doesn't have any way to get fresh oxygen and nutrients. So this means that once it's damaged, your tooth can't repair itself like other parts of your body. In other words, take care of your teeth. Alright, fact number two. Alright, Sunday Fun Fact number two. And this one, listen, I just had to say it. It is illegal to own just one guinea pig in Switzerland. I'll read it one more time. It is illegal to own just one guinea pig in Switzerland. And it's because it's considered animal abuse because they're such social beings and they get lonely. Listen, I'm not making this up. Alright, if you don't believe me, go ahead and go to Switzerland and just buy one guinea pig and see what happens to you. Alright, and this last Sunday Fun Fact, I'm really afraid to read because some of y'all don't need to hear this. But I'm going to read it anyway because it's a fun fact. But nutmeg is a hallucinogen. Once again, I'll read it. Nutmeg is a hallucinogen. The spice contains the chemical myristicin, a natural compound that has a mind-altering effect if ingested in large doses. Now listen, please don't be that one that makes your grandmama have to start locking up her spice cabinet. Don't do that, okay? Let the nutmeg be for the food, man. Alright, so those are my three Sunday Fun Facts for the day. I hope you enjoyed them. I always enjoy them. Next week I'll have three more. Do not break into your grandmama's spice cabinet. I'm just saying, alright? Alright. Alright, finally we get to talk about the topic of today on this show. And that is DEI, diversity, equity, and inclusion. And the reason I'm talking about it is because it's such a hot topic in the news right now. It went from being something that everyone had to have in their company or in their university. It had to be taught. There needed to be programs and curriculums created for these companies, universities, to now being something that is being vilified. Something that's being pushed out, banned even, in a couple of the states in this union, Texas and Florida. So I wanted to talk to somebody who could talk to me, could tell us what DEI is, what it represents, where it came from, and what would happen if it no longer existed in this country. So I just happened to know someone, a friend of mine, who was versed in DEI. And I asked her to come on the show. Her name is Lima Abdullah. She's a veteran national political journalist with more than 20 years of experience covering politics, government at the local level, state and federal. And she currently serves as a managing editor for PolitiFact. And that is a news organization sponsored by the Poynter Institute. And what they do is they fact check political statements. They must have had a field day with Donald Trump when he was our president. Now, when I met Lima, she was the deputy Washington editor for NPR. But, I mean, she's written for MSNBC.com, TheGrio.com, Today.com, CNN.com. I mean, she's run the gamut. I mean, her list of credentials go on and on and on. And honestly, I'm really glad she took the time to come out and talk to us today. So without taking any more time, let's meet her and get this conversation started. Alright, 1500 Family and Let's Talk. Please help me welcome to the show today, Ms. Lima Abdullah. Lima is a veteran national political journalist and my resident expert today on the subject that we're going to cover, DEI. How are you feeling today, Lima? Yeah, I'm doing well today. How are you, Brian? I'm doing great. I want to say, first of all, thank you so much for taking the time and being with me today and my listeners. We really appreciate your time. I know you're a busy woman. You've got a lot going on. So this really means a lot to us. So thank you. No, thank you for having me on today. Alright. Now, you know what we're talking about today, and it is about DEI, diversity, equity, and inclusion. Where did this come from? What is it? Give me a little bit of history in it. Can you tell me how it started? Yeah. So just to talk a little bit about how it started, really to understand DEI, which is an acronym representing diversity, equity, and inclusion, we actually are going to have to go into the Wayback Machine. So bear with me. Okay. A little bit of nerdy history. Let's talk about it. Okay. So DEI stands for diversity, and diversity is embracing people's racial, age, ethnic, religious, gender, sexual orientation, physical ability, social identity differences, and in some spaces, geographic and even ideological differences. And the reason why I say that is it's going to be an important note later in the conversation about why some of this is so controversial in some spaces. Okay. The next part is equity, and that's the idea of treating everyone fairly and offering equitable opportunities. I say equitable, as do those who actually do this for a living, which is not the same thing as equal. There's this old DEI poster that you'll see floating around, and it's the people in a line all trying to see over the same fence, right? Right. So the tall person or the woman with high heels, she can see over the fence. But if you give her a stool, give them a stool. However, the child or a shorter person or a person in the wheelchair, even if you gave them that stool, either couldn't use the stool or could not see over the fence. Got you. So they have equal tools. Okay. So equity is not about the same opportunities but equitable ones. Got you. The final part of that is inclusion, and that's about respecting and really listening to hear and understand everyone's voice about helping create a space in which people from a variety of backgrounds feel safe and encouraged to express their ideas and perspectives. So that sounds great, right? That sounds groovy. Right. Happy rainbows. Everyone's happy. Okay. So let's talk about why they're not. To understand the place that we're in with DEI and all the angst around it, you have to actually go way back almost 200 years in our history. Okay. To the point of the Civil War. Yes, it actually goes back that far. Okay. Back 1865, Congress established the Freedmen's Bureau, which was to help support formerly enslaved people with education, property, land acquisition, equitable access. Starting to sound kind of familiar, right? Right, right. Not long after that, Congress actually passed what is the very first civil rights law, which was the 14th Amendment. Right. Right, and that offers protections and establishing citizenship for emancipated people who are black, rights to own land, all those things. President Andrew Johnson vetoed it, and then Congress came back and overrode that. Right. Sound familiar? Lots of political back and forth over really what at its core are DEI practices and even some affirmative action efforts. Okay. So, with all of that political back and forth over the course of the decade, interest waned. So, over the next several decades, there were a lot of laws passed that sought to help make spaces diverse and equitable and inclusive. So, we know about the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which outlawed employment discrimination based on race, religion, sex, color, national origin, banned segregation in public places, things like that. Okay. And then there was Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, which established the EEOC, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, which really works to eliminate employment discrimination. Right. And it became codified in the 60s around the Civil Rights Movement. So, in the 60s and the 70s, employers started getting sued because employees started filing discrimination lawsuits through this new agency, the EEOC. And lots of companies went, uh-oh, we need to figure this out. We need to figure this out. We've got to put some programs in place. Tell me more about this. Tell me more about these efforts. And this is where we started to see, in the corporate space, more DEI efforts internally, right? Okay. Still not a blanket thing, but a piecemeal kind of approach. Gotcha. Around the same time, President Kennedy signed an executive order on affirmative action. In fact, that term actually became popularized when he urged defense contractors to, quote, take affirmative action. So, basically hire workers without consideration to their race or their creed or their color or their national origin, right? So, this was about people who wanted to have defense contracts. Okay. And then colleges and universities got on board, and they started working to diversify college recruitment and admissions and retention, and we saw this era in which there were a lot of efforts made in this space. But we know American politics. It's always a yo-yo kind of you lean one way, then you lean another way. Enter the 80s and President Reagan. And President Reagan really wanted to promote this idea of colorblindness, this thought that racial quotas are not good, they're inherently unfair. And so, we saw the appetite for those efforts of just 20 years previously stall. And Clarence Thomas, yes, that Clarence Thomas, who would later become a Supreme Court justice. Right. A big-time, harsh critic of affirmative action. He was actually named to head up the EEOC. So, under Thomas, discrimination, right? It's fascinating. It's been a fascinating deep dive. Thank you for giving me the nudge to do a little bit of that. I love nerding out on history. And so, under Thomas, some of those cases started to pile up, which actually kind of stymied some enforcement. Okay. Over the next two decades, there were volleys back and forth in the courts, in schools and universities, going back and forth. There'd be a win here for the side that was anti-affirmative action. Then there'd be a win on another side for huge discrimination case payouts in the corporate sector. And across the board, across the country, a very scattershot application of practices in lots of different spaces. And we had been in that space for quite a while, right? Right, right. Stagnant. Stagnant. Stagnant ping-ponging back and forth. Right. And then George Floyd was murdered. And what happened in the wake of that and the racial reckoning, there was this renewed push for focusing on DEI, right, and debate in various spaces. And they have the authenticity of that. I'm just telling you the facts of what happened. Okay, okay. This renewed push of looking introspectively, both in corporate spaces and educational spaces, even in some policy and political spaces, about diversity and equity and inclusion. We started to see a lot more DEI leadership roles being created in these companies. That was where that was. Okay. And then we know about the recent Supreme Court ruling against race-based college admissions, ruling it unconstitutional. Right. When that happened, we started to see a retrenchment in some spaces from affirmative action in lots of different types of spaces and coming into attack. And similarly, in spaces both local, state, and in broader conversations, an attack both in terms of rhetoric and in terms of policies against, quote-unquote, wokeness, which has come to be connected with the concept surrounding diversity, equity, and inclusion. So that is where we are today, my friend. Okay. Let me go back real quick. I want to go back to George Floyd. Yes. You've been doing this for a long time. You've been covering things like this for a long time. My question is, did you feel at that time that this was a phase, that the country was going through a phase, and that the sentiment of Black Lives Mattering and inclusion was going to be something that was going to phase out? Or did you think it was like the turning point, the straw that broke the camel's back that was going to change the country finally? I felt, as a student of history, again, history nerd, I felt that this was a pivotal point. And I still feel that way in American history. On a personal level, I have never been more proud of this young generation and how they led a lot of those efforts. Just I get tingled when I think about what young people did in those spaces. And I think that what we saw come out of the Black Lives Matter movement, the protests, both large and small, that we've seen is part of American history. This is what we do. We've always done that. And so I wouldn't necessarily say that this is fading. I would say that was a chapter, and now the page on that part of our history is turning, which is not to say that we forget that history, right? This ties all the way back. We went back all the way to the 1860s, Brian. This is the continuum. And so now I'm very curious to see what's the next chapter. What do we do in this pivotal point where we have generations, we have young people, and they brought the rest of us along and have given many of us renewed hope in fighting for inclusion in spaces and making their voices heard. And we have other groups who have said, hey, what about this ideological diversity? We deserve to be heard, too. And all of that is good and great and part of democracy. We don't all have to see eye to eye. We just need to hear each other and figure out a path forward. So that's where I am as someone who leads coverage and helping to chronicle living history, which is what we think of when we think of journalism. What next? What happens in this next phase as we try to reconcile a more than 200-year debate or nearly 200-year debate that's really been going on in our country? It sounds like DEI, like affirmative action, was a very positive thing, a very positive step forward in this country. Why is it facing so much blowback politically at this point? I think there are a lot of reasons for that. So, I mean, some people see it as positive, right? And others don't feel that way. The folks who, going back to that 1800s example, obviously Andrew Johnson did not feel that way. Obviously, Reagan did not feel that way. And so, you know, we could have conversations about the demographic shifts in our country, of which we know what that looks like. We know that those who might be considered racial minorities have been increasing. We know that those who have been in maturity, their birth rates have not kept apace of some of these other groups. So there's that very fundamental question of what and who makes up America that I think is part of this conversation. And I think it's fueling part of the angst and the frustration and the race and the culture wars. It's really about what the discomfort that some folks feel in this shift. It's interesting because two of the states within our country, Texas and Florida, have already put laws on the books in their states to ban the teaching of DEI. And, you know, Texas has more black people in their state than any other state in the union. And I'm trying to figure out if that is a coincidence or is that by design? I mean, what is the fear? What do you think the fear is? I couldn't really speak to what the fear is. I can just talk a bit, though, about what we are seeing in terms of laws and the movement across the country. So, for example, CNN did a really great piece on this recently. So CNN is reporting since 2023, there have been 81 anti-DEI bills that target programs at colleges, and they've been introduced in 28 states. And even as we look at that, eight of them have been signed into law, including in states like Texas and Florida. So this is obviously something that is a hot-button issue in most of the states in this country, right? Like, if we're looking at that from a purely empirical stance. By the same token, the other thing that CNN found that I thought was fascinating, they took a look at a survey by the Pew Research Center. And they found that just over half of the country's workers, so 52%, say that they've had DEI trainings or meetings at work. And a third of them say that they have someone in their company who is designated to promote DEI. So how do you reconcile that, right? I wonder sometimes if we get a perception that that which is loudest and most amplified is the actual reality. And when you start to look at numbers, you know, that might not always line up. That's not to say that these things don't matter and they're not important. They are, but numbers don't lie. No, they don't. No, they don't. The blowback, I mean, it's even come up with the whole collapse of the Key Bridge and our mayor. What did you think of that situation? Yeah, I mean, that one came across the desk of the company that I am now the managing editor of, PolitiFact. And what we do is we fact-check political statements. Political statements, comments, we try to counter misinformation, disinformation in the social sphere. We've built a reputation as being the folks that something's out there and it may not be accurate. We will dig into it and try to present a very clear fact-check of the record. And we did actually fact-check what was being said about Baltimore's mayor, Brandon Scott. And I'm so glad you did. Yes. I'm so glad you did. They had my boy way out of pocket. Way out of pocket. Yeah, they did. We said it was false. We said it was false. And here's why on our patented truth-o-meter we said this particular claim was false. So the claim was that Mayor Scott threatened white people. Right. This is where this came from. Last month, March 27th, there was this interview that he did on MSNBC. And he talked about – he addressed, rather, these social media posts that were calling him the DEI mayor. I don't know if that's a thing. Do you get voted the DEI mayor? I don't know. It was so corny. But go ahead. Right. But just fine. Whatever. A day later, this account by a known conservative account on X, it lives with TikTok, posted this clip from that interview and quoted him saying, they should be afraid because that's my purpose in life. And that person said, nothing to see here, just the mayor of Baltimore threatening white people. Right. And they posted that to about their 3 million followers. Okay. But we took a look at Scott's interview. And actually, this interview happened a day after the cargo ship collision that took down the Francis Scott Key Bridge. And when we looked at it, he didn't threaten white people. That's not what happened. He actually spoke for more than a minute. And he was reacting to comments from those – from what he called those who are racist. That's really what he was talking about. And so, you know, in the conversation with Joy Reed, he basically said, listen, you know, I know, we all know, and you know very well that black men, and he has one, and young black men in particular, have been the boogeyman for those who are racist and think that only straight, wealthy white men should have a say in anything. Right. Right. I watch that. Yeah. We've been the boogeyman for them since the first day they brought us into this country. He's going back to that. He's a student of history, too. And he questioned what they mean by being racist, right? And then he talks about the fact that he's proud of his heritage and who I am, and who he is and his heritage, from his perspective, scares those types of people. Because him being in that position means it challenges their way of thinking. Right. Right. And he said, being in my position means that their way of thinking, their way of life, of being comfortable while everyone else suffers is going to be at risk. And they should be afraid because that's my purpose in life. That is what he was talking about. That particular social media post cut only that last bit of his sentence, and therefore we ruled that perspective about him threatening white people to be false. Because it is. I am so glad. Because, I mean, I heard the statement before I even saw the interview, actually, because I didn't see the interview live on Jory Reid. But I heard the statement about him being the DEI mayor and about him threatening white people. And I'm like, what are you doing, Brandon Scott? Right. And then I saw the correction. And I was like, ah, okay. So it's another hit job. Right. I'm so glad that PolitiFact is out there because, you know, a lot of people wouldn't take the time to fact check that, to be honest with you. They just run with it. They really just run with it. Now, of course, you've got your situation at NPR. Now, I don't know if you want to talk about it or not, but I know that NPR is having some issues with their approach to liberals and conservatives and making major news in the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal. I'm obviously familiar with that. Yeah, just a bit. And to be fair to NPR, this is an issue that has come up, this idea of who's at the table, whose perspective is being shared has been a perennial issue in a lot of industries. The media industry is not excluded from that. And in the wake of the introspection that came out of Black Lives Matter, the media was part of that. And there were a lot of tough internal conversations across mainstream news organizations about whose voices are in the room, who are we missing, and very heated conversations. Folks can Google for themselves things that happened across some of your favorite news organizations, both digital and television and what have you. And so NPR, my former employer, I was the deputy Washington editor for NPR, is not immune from that. And the recent back and forth that you're seeing at NPR is really an outgrowth of this broader conversation. And what happened in this situation, or what is happening in this situation, is that a senior business editor, Yoruba Leonard, had been raising internally and then in a post that he put out questions about NPR's inclusivity of ideologically diverse thoughts. That's really, when you get through his post, that is at the core and the crux of what he was talking about. Now, for conservatives who have long, some of whom have long had a problem with NPR, and some of its government, and the perspectives that they feel the network's pegged. This was catnip. Aha, one of their own is criticizing. See, we told you. The issue that staffers, former staffers, they call them nippers, don't ask why, and others took with your point was that it seemed as if he were placing some of the blame for this lack of inclusivity around ideological diversity at the feet of racial and ethnic DEI efforts in an attempt to be inclusive in that space. I cannot speak to his motives. I can't speak to whether or not that was what he intended. But the impact, intent versus impact, is that how it felt and seemed. And so another former NPR staffer who has since gone on as well had an excellent piece, one of the best I've seen, Alicia Montgomery, basically destroying his argument and making the case that, yes, NPR has a lot of issues that she wrote about in terms of diversity, equity, inclusion. They had a mass exodus of black on-air talent a few years ago. Their internal conversations that she outlined and which Yuri also talked about, about diversity and people being at the table. But it was not fair to blame DEI efforts for what he is saying was a problem in terms of ideological diversity. That that is not, that's a red herring argument. You know what's funny is NPR to me has always been one of those, you know, entities that I thought was completely unbiased. And I know that every company has its thing, but I just found it to be completely unbiased in my opinion. Does it, you having been a major player at NPR at one point, does any of this surprise you? I mean, did it take you by surprise or were you kind of like, eh, not really surprised? Not really surprised. It's just, you know, all companies have their problems. NPR just happens to be in the spotlight right now. There are others with similar and I might think worse problems. But the journalism from NPR is excellent. I have met and helped manage and worked alongside extremely talented people who did stellar work. And that has to be noted too. And both of these things can be true, right? The journalism can be exceptional and well done, even as the place where that journalism came from needs a closer look internally. And to do some soul searching in order to be the best that it aspires to be. Okay. I mean, I can agree with that. I can agree. I understand what you're saying. I can agree with that. It's interesting. If you look at what Alicia Montgomery wrote on sleep, I just thought that she did such a great job with it because that is exactly what many people think. And I think that's the soft disquietude that comes and comfort that comes when we assume that because there might be a perception of a third political leader ideology that there aren't problematic ideas at play. And what she highlights in her article is that NPR, I believe she said, is a mess. I believe that's the right quote that she put in there. And, you know, lots of places are. And that part of the messiness of NPR is that comfort in, well, we're quote unquote woke. Or, you know, we've we've done these efforts and therefore clearly, you know, and that's the critique that she was offering that any time you have a space where and let's go all the way back to our definitions of D.I. Right. Right. People don't feel comfortable challenging the status quo or there's a presumption of rightness simply because of a certain ideological bent, which was what Yuri's point was at its core. Then you run into this dangerous fallacy of especially as journalists of not asking the critical questions internally that are necessary to really do the best kind of work. It becomes almost a soft, lazy kind of approach to critical thinking. And above all, that is what we should be striving for to constantly not only be critical of others, but also be open to criticism and introspection and willing to evolve. And her criticism was that NPR is just not there and that it's not open to it. And that that is the necessary evolution for that organization to really continue to thrive and to continue to have longevity. It's really going to have to do the hard work, not the platitudes and soft voices, actual work. So what does that mean for communities of color and the coverage that we want to see? I mean, the issues that affect us especially. What does that mean for us? I'm so glad you asked this question because I know there are a lot of people both in the media, both those that support media and the communities that are served. We've all been asking these questions. We've seen the retrenchment from local news spaces. I've been very interested in seeing what's shaping up in Baltimore, actually, in this kind of news battle you got going on there with the banner and the sun. I actually think that that's good for local news and actually good for all people when you have competition in the space and people looking more closely at issues. I think what it means for communities of color and those who are underserved more broadly. Right. So we're talking about all sorts of folks, people who are unhoused, people who might speak different languages. All of the ways that we talked about at the beginning of the interview is that it is so critically important for the fourth estate to be empowered to do the kind of reporting and hold politicians, lawmakers, people in positions of power accountable. I've been very excited and heartened to see what's been happening in the nonprofit news space. There have been a lot of organizations that have cropped up all over the country in so-called news deserts, places where basically news organizations couldn't survive and they closed shop, which is not good for democracy. It's not. I've been heartened to see organizations fund nonprofit newsrooms. I have some interest in that space. I'm just going to leave it there. If you'll have me back on later and I can talk on another day. But I just think that that is really a very good chapter for us to be turning in this part of our history of how does the industry that is really charged with helping uphold the First Amendment and hold lawmakers and those in power accountable. How do we evolve and come out of this reckoning, this racial reckoning? Do we ask ourselves the hard questions or do we cower and throw up forces? Do we hire some DEI experts and not empower them or hire a bunch of black leaders and not really give them the power and the backing to do what needs to be done in terms of news? Or do we roll up our sleeves, get real, get honest, and actually do the kind of work that's necessary in order to really do the people's business and present news in the best way possible so that people can be informed? I'm optimistic that despite the hiccups and the jaggedness and the roughness going on in the industry right now, I do think that we're going to get it right eventually. And so that's where I put my hope. This is the chapter that I'm on. I'm on the chapter of the fixing it chapter. I'm going to join your hope team because I've got to be honest with you. I can be easily cynical. And one of the reasons, I've got to be honest, I'm just going to put it out there, is NPR has a contract with WEAA, the radio station at my alma mater, Morgan State. So of course I was biased. I listened to them all the time. Plus my friend was a big wig there talking about you. So of course I had an affection for that news entity. Now I feel like, and maybe I should have all the time being in the media myself, but I feel like I have to keep an open eye on everyone and everything. And it's kind of sad. Not to sound like Donald Trump, but who do you trust? It's hard. It's hard. And that's why I think it's so unfair to communities, right? None of us are perfect, but what we owe communities, what we owe readers and listeners and viewers is the effort. That's what we owe you. We owe you the effort and we owe you transparency. When we don't live up to our values, when we don't do the best job possible, when we mess up in whatever space, be it with personnel, be it in news coverage, we work for you. We owe you an explanation and the effort to do much better. And so that's what I would hope comes out of what's happening with NPR. Do better. Do better. Check out Alicia's piece on Slate. She's also on Roland Martin, unfiltered by Roland. And she has a longer take there. And it's worth reading on Slate. It's worth listening to her take on Roland Martin. And also keeping in mind that if you use what she's saying there for a proxy, a metaphor for what's happening in media, not just to make one group the boogeyman. Right. But then that is a conversation that's actually worth having across media. It's the kind of conversations that the National Association of Black Journalists, of which I'm a member, has been having and has done a great job in holding organizations accountable for. And it is the kind of work that a lot of nonprofit news organizations, in particular places like The Emancipator out of Boston, Capital B, and places like that are trying to do the good work to ensure that communities are better served. Wow. Well, listen, before I let you go, first of all, I got to ask you one question. What was the draw to PolitiFact? What made you leave NPR? Not make you leave NPR, but what made you drawn to PolitiFact? What was the draw? Honestly, I'm a mother. I have school age kids, and I feel like they're pretty sharp. And I've also seen all of the misinformation and misinformation that gets thrown at them all the time. It really is very difficult, Brian, to distinguish what is true and what is not. And I worry about that so much in terms of news literacy and in terms of the ability to analyze and understand what is most important, what's true, so that people can form opinions, especially with the youngest generation, the Generation Alpha that we're in now. And so I was drawn to the idea of an organization that really works to counter that. They have a partnership with social media groups and have been asked and have been charged with, hey, we know there's a lot of crap pushed out there. And you folks are highly skilled at being able to determine what is factual and what's not. Help us out. And in the political space, and PolitiFact is one of the Pulitzer for this, in fact, being able to look in a nonpartisan way across the spectrum. And when we hear statements or we read things online that may not pass the smell test, or maybe they do, and that needs to be highlighted too, really deep diving and putting that out there, because I think that that is a very valuable commodity right now for us as Americans so that we can be the best informed citizens. How can my listeners support PolitiFact? And what is the easiest way to be connected to PolitiFact? I am so glad you asked. So we are easily found online. It's PolitiFact, P-O-L-I-T-I-F-A-C-T dot com. Check us out. Read us. We're on Instagram. We are on X. We're on TikTok. We're on all the social spaces. And check out our ratings. If you're wondering if something is or is not true and it's not there, we actually have ways that you can ask us questions. Would you consider checking out this thing? I've been reading this. We try to answer those that we can. We love those because those are ideas that really help us be more responsive to you. And if you like what you read, then support us in that way. And I'll leave it there. I leave it to you to decide how to support our good work. But we hope that our good work really does help you and your families be better informed so that you can make the decisions you need to make. That is awesome. Lima, thank you so much for being with me today. You know I'm going to have you back. You're now officially a member of the 1500 Let's Talk family. So I'm certainly going to have you back, alright? So don't be surprised if your phone rings and it's me and I'm saying, hey, come on, I want to talk about this, alright? I'm glad to do it. And thank you so much for having me. It's been my pleasure. You have a great one. Alright, you too. Bye-bye. Man, I could talk about DEI, affirmative action, things like that all day. I mean, I'm a history buff myself. And what I know about history is you've got to keep your eye on things like diversity, equity, and inclusion, right? And I'm so glad Lima was here to point out the reasons why. But I know you hear the music. That means it's time for the petty on this show. So let's give the petty a call today and see what he is up to. Good morning. Good morning, Brother B. How are you? What's going on, big guy? How you doing today, Petty? I'm doing great, man. Listen, this week, wow. There's some fantastic news going on in the sports world. But the biggest thing, and you know, the biggest thing for me was Thursday night when it was the NFL draft. That is correct. Before I talk about the draft, let's talk a little bit about baseball. Because the Orioles kind of started off slow, but right now they're right up there with the best of the best. As a matter of fact, they have the exact same record as the team that paid the most money in the majors. And I'm talking about the Los Angeles Dodgers. And the Orioles are getting it done. They're right there with the Yankees. They're fighting for first place in the American League East. Yes, they are. I expect your O's to do some things this year. Because like I said last year, that was a stepping stone to them getting to the playoffs. I can see them catching fire. And I think they're going to carry that on into this year. And I expect them to hopefully go maybe into the AFCL, the North American League Championship Games. Hey, I actually heard Stephen A. Smith say on first take that for the Orioles, it's World Series or bust. You know what? That sounds good. But for right now, let's go with the ALCS, which is American League Championship Series. Let's start with that before we talk about World Series or bust. The talent is there. I think Brandon Hyde is doing a wonderful job coaching that team right now. I still think the pitching is a little shaky. I'm not sold on Craig Kimball being there as one of their relievers. But they're out there, like I said, doing it with the best of us. I know we're still in April. We still got May, June, July, August, September to go through. And you know, we get to August, going into September, maybe we'll be talking a little bit more about those high flying O's. Well, as you know, this week was the start of the first round of the NBA and NHL playoffs. And there have been arguments over the years. Who is the GOAT when we're talking about the NBA? Michael Jordan or LeBron James? Right. Well, brother B, how many times do you recall Michael Jordan being swept in the playoffs in the first round? Never. Exactly. Well, just like LeBron and the boys out there in L.A., it doesn't look good for them. And maybe it's time at the age of 39 for all the accolades that he has, because he really has nothing else to prove as a basketball player. Maybe it's time for LeBron to hang him up. Maybe he wants to play one more year. Hopefully his son will come out and they can play together. But I've been watching that series between the Lakers and Denver, and he still has it, but not enough to carry a team. Well, he's not the clutch guy for those guys. They don't have a clutch guy. And the thing is, A.D. really played his heart out in the series. I feel bad for him because finally he's healthy and he's actually living up to what he's being paid for. And they still can't get it done. It seems like the Nuggets own them. Ten straight games at one point. Geez. And sadly enough, because of what's going on, that has put the Lakers coach on the hot seat. We will see how that plays out as things move forward. And as I mentioned, the NHL, they have started their first round of the hockey playoffs. And you know what team I'm looking for to probably make a little noise? I like them. Hopefully they can make some noise coming out of their division. But right now, I think the team everybody should be fearing might be the Florida Panthers. They are just on a tear. I mean, man, watch out for those Panthers out of Florida. And maybe even the Carolina Hurricanes. Two teams that really haven't talked about or no one has talked about too much. Well, maybe not so much Florida. They've talked about the Panthers in the past. But not the Carolina Hurricanes. Watch out for them, too. You know who my favorite hockey team is? Actually, no, I don't. The Baltimore Clippers. The old Baltimore Clippers from the AHL from back in the day. Back in the day. That's my only hockey team, bruh. They were the good old days of hockey. Going down to the old Baltimore Civic Center, sitting up there in the press box and watching the Baltimore Clippers play one of my favorite teams from the old AHL, that they still exist to this day, the Hershey Bears. I remember them. They still exist? They still exist up in Hershey, Pennsylvania. The Hershey Bears still exist in the AHL. Wow. Yes. Crazy. Crazy. Now, I want to talk about something. I'm going to get to this draft. I don't think there were too many surprises in the NFL draft in the first round. I have to say the first couple of picks, especially the number one pick. We heard about this young man, Taylor Williams from USC. He was going to be the number one pick. And the week building up to it, there was so much stuff being said about him and what things he was saying, what his father was saying. That he didn't want to go to the Bears. He did want to go to the Bears. There was the stipulation that if he was selected, he would have to play for the Bears. It was all said and done. He wanted to play for the Bears. Well, I mean, you said that. You said that last week. A week before last, when I said that I thought he was going to go to the Commanders. You said, well, he's talking to the Bears and you don't talk to an organization unless you're planning to go there. That's what you said. So, that's where he is. And it's no big surprise to me that he did go to the Bears. And, you know, I hope this young man doesn't turn out to be what Bryce Young was last year for the Carolina Panthers. Because, just because you are selected number one, does not mean that you're going to come out the box blazing. Now, the number two pick last year, C.J. Stroud, he just really lit it up for the Texans. Yeah, I think I was unsuspected, too. I think people knew he was good, but I didn't think they thought he was going to be that good at the pro level. Well, now it goes right back to this year's number two pick, who went to the Commanders, Jalen Daniels. Now, what they're saying about this young man is that he's like Lamar Jackson 2.0. What? Yeah, that's what the word is. Wow. The only problem is that he's not built like Lamar. He's a little thinner. And if you would have watched the draft, we were watching the draft, a couple of my partners and I, and we noticed how thin he looked. And can he take a hit? This isn't in the college ranks. This is the NFL. You're up there with the big boys. And I think the Commanders, if they couldn't get Caleb Williams, they definitely had their guy at quarterback. That was an excellent pick by the Commanders. If he is a Lamar Jackson 2.0, if he can stay healthy, look for the Commanders to battle in the NFC East along with the Eagles, the Cowboys, and the Giants. Because those are the three teams he will see twice a year, every year, as long as he's a Commander. Well, it's not like he doesn't have the guys to throw to. They've got a great receiving core, tight ends, and receivers. They just didn't have anybody to give them the ball consistently. And I agree with you 100%. I think him throwing to Terry McLean would be fantastic. I'm looking forward to it. I think the DMV has something to look forward to with the Ravens and the Commanders. The problem with the Commanders, they've always been a team with the exception of Sizeman. After him, they destroyed everybody. Like, that's where quarterbacks went to die. Hopefully, this young man will thrive. They have a new coach there, and I think they will thrive. I just really think he will do some good things out there in D.C. And I'm looking forward to watching him play. And because they do play the Eagles and I'm in the Philadelphia area, I will get a chance to see him twice a year, every year. So, I'm looking forward to that. So am I. Here's a pick. Now, I want you to think about this, Brother B. It surprised everyone. It surprised me Thursday night, but as I started thinking about it over the last several days, it makes a lot of sense. The Atlanta Falcons, at number eight, that had a whole lot of other needs, picked a quarterback. Yeah, and they're not happy about it either. The town's not happy about it. No, but they're not looking at the big picture. And I didn't need that first. Yes, you gave Kirk Cousins $180 million. Yes, $100 million is guaranteed. But he's 35 coming off an Achilles tear. Yeah, so then it makes even less sense why they would pay him $180 million. Like, none of that makes sense to me. He was the one that was unhappy. He felt like they squandered a number eight. That's who it was that was unhappy, was Kirk Cousins. Well, if you look at it, and this is what I've heard through the grapevine and other sources that I checked out, that at that age, when you tear an Achilles, there's a strong possibility that if you tear your left one, that you're going to tear your right one. So, Teddy, why pay this man $180 million to be a, I don't know, a stat padder? I mean, he pads the stats, but he doesn't win the games. So, why pay him that money? And I agree with you 100%, but Atlanta needed a quarterback. And at that time, you know, when the free agent frenzy was going on, they were like, oh, we can go get Kirk Cousins. And that's what they did. Did they overpay him? Yes, they did. Did they make a mistake choosing a quarterback at number eight? Eh, some will say yes, some will say no. They need someone that can jump in there and be ready to back up if he tears the other Achilles, if he's not, you know, if he gets injured. Because who do they have if he gets injured? No one. Should they pick somebody for defense, an edge runner, an edge rusher, or a tackle, or a corner? Yes, they should have. Yes, they picked another receiver. Of course, they should have. But looking at the big picture, they need a quarterback for the future and a quarterback that may be ready to step in if he gets injured. They needed to strengthen the left side of their offensive line because that way Kirk doesn't have to run for his life and stress the other Achilles. And I think that was his issue. That's where they needed help. I agree with you. And there have been videos leaked all over social media that seem like the GM is explaining to the owner, yeah, we took a quarterback at number eight. And the owner is looking off the blank, looking like, look, I just gave a guy $100 million, $100 million plus, and you dropped a quarterback? What the hell? Exactly. I don't know if you've seen that clip on social media, but it's so hilarious. And so we're going to see how this pans out over the next year or two. It's kind of a good thing that they do have their quarterback for the future, but at number eight, you probably could have gotten him a little later on in the draft. Maybe not him, but a serviceable quarterback later on in the draft. And speaking of the draft, man, they are talking about your Baltimore Ravers hitting a home run by picking Nate Wiggins from Clemson at number 30. They're saying this guy has been compared to Deion as far as being a lockdown quarterback. Whoa. Not a great tackler, but they're saying he plays like he's a Raven. Wow. So yeah, that's huge for the Ravens because they have their man. And it seems like every year, and I'm not going to say every year, but it seems like right now for the second consecutive year, the Ravens have gotten their man in the draft. Last year was Zay Flowers. This year, Nate Wiggins. Wow. And historically, if you look at the Ravens and how they've picked their players, especially in defense, it has been the right person to fit right, you know, just plug right into their defense being able to play. And I think Nate Wiggins is an excellent pick for the Ravens. That Ozzie knew some effect, bro. He laid the blueprint for how to draft. I mean, he really did. Exactly. He really did. And I think they've just done something that, you know, they've been doing it for years and they've done it again. Congratulations to the Baltimore Ravens on an excellent pick at number 30, Nate Wiggins. So I'm saying possibly the best or second best. He's definitely a top five corner in the draft. Wow. Awesome. And that's huge. That's huge to say something like that. And I'm going to wrap this thing up with two things, three things. First, let's congratulate, you remember this player, brother B. He was a great cornerback. He played for the Washington Redskins who are now the commanders. And I'm talking about Joe Green. And the reason why I say congratulations to him, because number 28, that jersey will be retired. It needs to be. Awesome. That is awesome. That man played for 20 seasons in Washington and never lost a beat. He was one of the best corners out there. He wasn't a big guy, but, boy, was he fast. I watched him run down Tony Dorsett, which should have been a clear touchdown from the other side of the field. No, he's an awesome human being. I've met him several times, and he's an awesome human being as well. So, once again, congratulations. No one will ever wear number 28 in D.C. as far as the commanders, Redskins, football team, whatever you want to call them, that number is now officially retired. Now I'm going to get on my soapbox and talk about something that I do not like. And it's come to light, and I've done a little bit more research on it. And since 2021, and you know me, brother B, I always felt like college athletes should not be paid. Okay. Because of the NIL deals, which stands for the use of your name, your image, or your likeness, college athletes are being paid millions of dollars. And I'm going to give you a good example. Should I say Caitlyn Clark? I'm going to talk about Caitlyn Clark. She is making more money, or she has made more money off of her NIL contract deal than she has the contract she signed with the WNBA being the first round pick for the WNBA. She even has a $28 million shoe deal with Nike. Right. And this is what disturbs me. The NIL deals that college athletes are getting millions of dollars. Your tuition is already being paid for. Your room and board is being paid for. You're traveling with the school to go play these games, and then you're getting millions of dollars, and you're not even a professional athlete yet. And this has been going on since 2021. And I think it's a travesty because not every college athlete is getting that type of money that a Caitlyn Clark is getting or an Angel Reese or a Caleb Williams when he was playing at USC, and even Arch Manning, who's a third-string quarterback. A $3.2 million deal that's a NIL deal. I think this is ridiculous. He's a freaking freshman that's a third-string quarterback getting a deal worth $3.2 million. So then here's the million-dollar question, no pun intended. Are athletes not supposed to be paid for companies to make money off of their name, their image, or their likeness? Or should companies be banned from using their name, image, and likeness until they become professionals? Which one is it? That part right there. The companies should not be able to use their name, their image, or their likeness until they become professional athletes. Okay, all right, I'll go with that. Because the rule used to be in the NCAA was you can't have an agent, you can't profit off of your ability playing for the school. But now it's happening. Yeah, well, you know, Ed O'Bannon has been fighting for this for almost two decades from UCLA. He's the one that started this whole thing. He didn't profit from it, but it being brought to court and brought to light certainly has gotten us to where we are now. And here we are. And that is one of the reasons why you see so many college athletes going through this transfer portal. Because once I saw that certain states and certain schools allow or do not allow NIL deals, you got student athletes saying, well, I can go play at Florida State or Texas or Florida or UCLA or USC or any other plethora of colleges that I could name where they can get an NIL deal as opposed to playing at the school that they're at right now and not being able to get a deal. And the average deal is somewhere between $1,000 and $10,000. But I have seen some names and I've seen some numbers that are in the millions. And this is before they become professional athletes. Oh, definitely. Without a doubt. Angel Reese was making $3 million. She made $3 million in NIL deals her last year of college. Caitlin Clark was worth $5 million. I'm sorry, $4.7 million her last year of college. And then she gets drafted number one and her salary is $76,000 a year from the WNBA. She's not playing for the money. She's not playing for the money. No, she's not. And speaking of Caitlin Clark, she gets a $28 million shoe deal from NIL. Right. And has not played one game in the WNBA. So did Jordan. He got his shoe before he ever played one game in the NBA. We're not talking about Jordan. We're talking about Caitlin Clark and her $28 million. Because we're going to talk about a young lady who doesn't have a shoe deal, who's a two-time WNBA champ, back-to-back champ, a two-time MVP in the WNBA, an NCAA title winner, an Olympic gold medal, and she even has a book. We've got to be talking about SS. We've got to be talking about Sheryl. No, we're not talking about Sheryl. Who are we talking about? We're talking about Asia Wilson, who plays for the Vegas Aces. Oh, okay. She plays for them right now. But this young lady, man, today where shoe deals and NIL deals are prevalent, she doesn't have any of that. And so how is that possible when you have a two-time MVP award winner, a two-time WNBA champion, a gold medalist, and someone who's wrote a best-selling book on the New York Times best-sellers list not have a shoe deal? You know why. Come on. Listen. You know why. You know exactly why. I know why. You know why. Your listeners know why. And I think it's a travesty. So on that note, Brother B, I'm going to get off my soapbox. I'm going to say, I love your show. Keep on doing what you're doing. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I've got to say one thing before you go, bro. This week, well, weekend, I had three people come up to me and call me Brother B. They weren't together, but they approached me. And I wanted to punch you square in your face, bro. Because you started this crap, man. Oh, here we go. Peace, brother. All right. All right, well, there you have it. That was the petty. And, yeah, I'm going to embrace it, like I said, like he said I should. I'm going to embrace it, so the Brother B, I guess, will stick. But listen, the hour has come to an end. Actually, once again, we've run over, but it's okay. It's okay. I've got everything I needed to get done, and the information that was given was very important. So I hope you ran with it. I hope you listened to it. I hope you stored it in, and I hope that you use it. Listen, people, we have to read. We have to read, and we have to get involved. But it has to start with the reading and the research. TV is fine, but there are more news personalities than there are journalists on TV right now. So please, do your reading. Read what the journalists write, because they're the ones that have to be accurate. They're the ones who have to uphold the integrity of journalistic laws. And it's very important that we read. So read the news. Not necessarily always watch the news, because that's agendized. Read the news. It's very important. Wall Street Journal, New York Times, Washington Post, Baltimore Sun. Read them. I promise you, it won't fail you. And the reason that I know this to be true is because my grandfather, Edward Petaway, had a high school education, but he read three newspapers every single day. The Baltimore Sun, the Baltimore News American, and the Afro-American News World Report, better known as the Afro. He read them every single day. And there wasn't a topic that you could talk to him about that he wasn't versed in. He was such a wise and smart man, but it's because he read. And he told me something then that I didn't really start to understand until much later in life. And it's so true. Reading is what separates the classes of people in this country more than race. So read everything. Soak it up. Soak it up. Alright, enough of that. You've heard enough of my reading speech. I'm sorry about that, but I'm very passionate about it, obviously. Listen, if you've missed any portion of this show, and I say this every week, if you've missed any portion of this show, or you want to show somebody else, or you want someone else to hear the show, please go to my website, VoicesWired.com. Click on the Let's Talk tab. Scroll down. All of my shows are there, listed from newest to oldest. I hope that you do, and I hope that you enjoy them. Also, I would love to get your feedback. Hit me up on Instagram. Add on with Brian Petaway. Please give me your feedback about these shows. Tell me how you feel about my guest, our topic today. And if you have any topics you want me to cover, or you have a guest that you want on the show, please let me know. And I'm going to try and get it for you. I'm going to try and talk about it for you. Get some information about it. This is not just my show. Yeah, I mean, it bears my name, but it's our show. The reason I'm on the air is because of you. So, let me know what you want. I'll try to provide it. Otherwise, like I say every week, kick back today. Relax. Chill. Do nothing. Because every week I say the same thing. The best thing about doing nothing is you can quit whenever you want to wake up tomorrow morning enthused, re-energized, refueled. Get out there. Kill them. Have the best week of your life. Be productive and intentional and inspire someone. And keep your eyes open because you just may run into someone that inspires you. All right, I've got to run. Have a great week, people. I'll talk to you next week right here on Let's Talk on 1500 Radio, Baltimore's authentic multimedia experience. Have a wonderful week. Peace!