Independence Day 2025 w/WWII Veterans Dan & Edgar Krattli

The Mid-America Veterans Museum is a nonprofit relying on community donations to share veteran stories. The Operation Insight podcast educates on various topics but doesn't endorse views expressed. Interview with WWII veterans highlights their service, motives for joining, and experiences in the Navy and Army Air Force. The Cratley brothers discuss their patriotic duty, their brother Bob's service as a chaplain's assistant in India, and their own roles in the Pacific during WWII. Their stories honor their dedication and contributions to history. The Mid-America Veterans Museum is a 501c3 nonprofit business. The museum would not exist without the donations of our generous community. Your donations ensure the museum continues to share and preserve the stories of our veterans. Would you like to be part of something special? To donate, visit mavm.org and click on Donate. The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this podcast are for general information only. The primary purpose of the Operation Insight podcast is to educate. The views, information, or opinions expressed on the Operation Insight podcast are solely the views of the individuals or guests involved and by no means represent absolute facts. Operation Insight does not accept responsibility for their views or comments. The Operation Insight podcast may at times cover sensitive topics, including but not limited to, suicide, abuse, violence, severe mental illness, sex, drugs, and alcohol addiction. You are advised to refrain from watching or listening to the Operation Insight podcast if you are likely to be offended or adversely impacted by any of these topics. Either the company, host, director, or the guest shall at any time be liable for the content covered causing offense, distress, or any other reaction. ♪♪ Welcome to the Operation Insight podcast from the Mid-America Veterans Museum with your host, Jason Galvin, and co-host, Sergeant Ethan Groves. We thank you guys for coming over to the museum to hang out with us today and tell your story. Ethan and I find it very, very important to capture these stories because once they're gone, we can't get them back. Anything you want to talk about, we want to listen to. So Ethan's going to tell us a little bit about what July 4th represents and why we're doing this today. Sure. So part of the reason we wanted the brothers here, Dan and Edgar Cratley, is to commemorate Independence Day or Fourth of July. I think there's a special relationship between our nation's birth, July 4th, 1776, and the conflict known as World War II. As you both know, the fight for the colonies and freedoms of America were part of what the Declaration of Independence sought to solidify. And part of the Declaration of Independence says for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. And in a lot of ways, the conflict of World War II and the evil forces that caused that war were in direct opposition to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness for a lot of people, especially the Jewish people. And we have what I consider heroes in front of us here, Jason. Absolutely. Two brothers, and I know you had an older brother who also served in the war, but two brothers, the Cratley brothers, who are veterans of World War II, which I think is one of the most consequential wars in our nation's history, if not in human history. You think about the United States before World War II. We weren't quite a superpower yet, and we had joined World War I late, caught the tail end of World War I. World War II, were it not for the United States and our involvement, I think that would have gone a very different way. So I want to thank you both for being here, but more importantly, I want to thank you for the life that you've lived and the service that you gave during World War II in such an important time in our human history. Thank you both for being here. Thank you. And remind us of your brother's name. Bob. Bob Cratley. And I do want to make sure to give a shout-out to a student volunteer of ours, Hannah Halterman. She actually helped prepare some of the questions for the interview today with the Cratley brothers. So, Hannah, thank you very much for your help. Now, you two have been here before for one of those student-led interviews through the Veterans History Project. I really appreciate you guys taking the time to come back. So I know that we don't have very many World War II veterans left with us here, and one of you guys is 100 years old, correct? 100 years old. And, sir, how old are you? Ninety-eight. Ninety-eight. So we get the distinct pleasure of being in the presence of history and some extraordinary gentleman, 100 years old and 98. So part of the fun of this is we have both of you, the brothers, at the same time. I've heard you guys are a lot of fun to talk to. And so we'd love to see your personality shine through the interview. But let's start with something very simple. Tell us about your background and where you grew up. Well, we grew up in St. Louis County, actually, on a pine lawn that we moved into the city of St. Louis. And I think that's where we first were inducted from our home. Edgar, you have some interesting perspective on your family history. Heritage-wise, you come from Germany. Your family does. Well, our father's family came from Switzerland in 1844 and settled in Stonehill, Missouri. And our mother's father came from Germany at about that same time and also settled in Stonehill and was a blacksmith for Stonehill and the region. But also we want to make mention our dad was in World War I, and he served in the Army. Went to France, is that correct? France, yes, and served there. But he got the measles and he was sent to the hospital. And by the time he ended the measles, the war was over. So most of his time was spent in the hospital. Yes. I guess you could consider him pretty fortunate. Yes, for sure. So did your father talk to you about his service? Slightly, I think, yes, but he never really went into depth. I think I've heard, I don't remember if it was you, Dan, or if it was Edgar, but one of you had mentioned that joining the military in the 40s was just sort of the thing to do. I wanted to mention this because I think it's important, especially for someone like me, and I think Jason also. When we look back at World War II veterans, we look at them with such awe and such inspiration. But when you think about it, when you guys had joined, it was sort of something that you just felt called to do or you just felt you had to do. I'm sort of curious. Did you have a sense that World War II was going to be such a historical moment in time when you joined? I just didn't know, not really. I just felt as though I was called up to serve with the armed forces, and I just took it and went on from there. It seemed like the right thing to do at the time. I would say the same thing, that when the war was on in 1944, I graduated from high school, and all these men, the students of my generation in our high school, all were enlisted in the war one way or the other. So it just seemed nobody thought much about our generation at the time because it's what every man or student did at that time. In some ways, you didn't want to feel as though you were being left out. Everyone else seemed to be joining. And like you said, Edgar, who could have known at that time that the decision you made, both of you made and your brother Bob, to join during a war was going to lead to your generation being known as the greatest generation? The war was there. It had to be taught. And we were all just very grateful and willing to serve. Did you feel at that time—so, Edgar, you mentioned you had just graduated high school and then you enlisted. And then, Dan, what year did you join? I guess I was in 43. 43. Before each of you joined, this is just for me personally, I'm interested in this. What did you know about World War II and what was happening? Well, we knew that there was a war on and we didn't know how serious it actually was. We were just in high school and just anxious to get out into the world. What made you decide to join the Navy? Well, I went down to Jefferson Barracks for my original interview and they had a Marine, a Navy man, and an Army man. So since Bob had been in the Army Air Force, I thought, well, I'd like to follow in his footsteps. So I asked him if I could join the Army. And the guy said, always. So we've got our quota filled. So I looked over at the Navy guy and I said, well, I'll take the Navy. And the Army guy threw his finger into my face and he said, why? I said, well, I think it's a better branch of service. You've always got a bed at night. You've always got three wheels a day. And by God, it's always happened with men in the trenches and that. It's sort of hard to believe that a recruiter would tell you in 1943, our quota is filled, we're good. Right, yeah. Edgar, what made you decide? Was it your brothers that influenced you or your brother Ben? Well, basically, I chose the Navy because Ben was in the Navy and he was having a very patriotic service. And I thought the Navy would be probably more safe than the Army. And so I really, really volunteered for the Navy. What can you tell us about your brother Bob's service? I want to make sure we honor his memory as well. He's passed on since. Well, he was a great man and he wanted to do his duty for the country and he was very patriotic and he just took it and lived with it and went through the experience, came out unwounded, and just continued a good life. Which theater did he primarily serve while in the Army Air Force? I think he was a chaplain's assistant. He was a chaplain's assistant. He also worked for about three years after graduating from high school and then was inducted into the Army Air Corps. Ended up being the chaplain's assistant and spent three years in India helping the chaplain as an assistant. And served to provide services for the Army Air Corps mainly in India. India, you don't hear very often about. No, I didn't even think about that. Yeah, time spent in India during World War II. Well, so I know a little bit about both of your service. My understanding is you both served in the Pacific, but Dan, you were a little bit closer to the war front than Edgar was. I think, Edgar, you were in Hawaii primarily. Is that correct? Yes. Tell us about your time in Hawaii. Well, after boot camp for 12 weeks, it turned out to be Christmas. I was on me for Christmas. After New Year's, I went back to where I went to San Diego to be assigned. And for some reason, somehow, I got assigned to the—I'm sorry. Did you work with radio and radio transmission? It was the decoding and the deciphering of the Japanese messages. And so I ended up being sent to Hawaii, which was headquarters of the war effort in deciphering and decoding the Japanese messages. Now, I was just like an office monkey for a year out in Hawaii because all the decoding was done by the officers. Oh, okay. And I felt very fortunate because I was never in harm's way. And yet, as I've been told many times when I protested that I was a hero, I went and served. And I've learned that that was a very important part of the war effort. Absolutely. In a lot of ways, Edgar, you know, Hawaii, like you said, was sort of like the gateway to the Pacific Theater. The line had to stop there or else our home front was going to be at risk. But in some ways, I would think that your service in Hawaii probably benefited people like Dan and other sailors in the Pacific who were there around, I think, Marshall Islands and the Marianas. Is that correct, Dan? So tell us about the service in the Pacific. Well, I was a sonar operator, and that was they always called us ping jockeys because our equipment would send out a transmission underwater, and if it came upon a solid object, it would reflect back. You could tell distance that way if I understand correctly. You could try to triangulate where that object is coming from using the sonar. Is that correct? Yes, yes. We would have operation of the machine that would tell us how wide the object was or not how long but how wide or possibly what it turned out to be. Tell us about an experience while working on sonar that was possibly scary or maybe even life-threatening for you. Well, there was a time I think we were in the Marshall invasion in charge of fleet operation. I think our DE was the head thing, and all the other operating machinery was around. We got an echo back on our transmission, and immediately the captain called several quarters, and we determined that it was a solid object and it was a very possible submarine. So we ran, I think, one trial test on it, and then our second test, I think we threw hedgehogs at it and also depth charges. We got back and the fourth test was a very possible hit. Oh, wow. You possibly sunk a submarine in that moment. Wow. What ship were you on? It was a destroyer escort DE Tisdale. Tisdale. It says Tisdale. Okay. And, Edgar, you were on land, right? Yes. Okay. Did you ever venture around any other areas outside of Hawaii on a ship anywhere? No, I really didn't. I spent a week at Christmastime a year after a year being served. I had the chance to go with another group of servicemen in an 036 Dodge Sedan, and we drove all around the big island of Hawaii as tourists, and that was really a very enjoyable part of my service. Absolutely. That sounds amazing. Another story, tell me if I have this correct, Edgar, is about being able to read using the moonlight. Well, the moon in Honolulu, the full moon was almost as bright as daylight, and you could read a book or write letters or read anything because the moon was so bright and clear. Wow. You mentioned writing letters, and this is something I wanted to ask you, too, about. If I recall correctly from something I've heard, Edgar, you weren't much of a letter writer, but your brother was a prolific letter writer. Dan, tell us about writing letters while you were overseas. Writing letters, you couldn't say where you were, what you were doing, or any of the experiences that we were having. It was just to, I think, just let the folks back home know that you were still alive and doing your duties. Sure, yeah. Well, you would think your brother would have written more letters. He's there in Hawaii off on the beach. I think he wrote more letters than our older brother, Bob. Oh. Well, we said to him about it, that he was such a prolific letter writer that I think every moment he wasn't on duty, he was writing letters, and everybody he knew heard from Dan. And so I admired him. He had quite the address book to get through. Now, Dan, does any of your letters still exist? I have no idea. Mom has passed on some years ago. You don't have any of the ones you sent Mom? Not that I know of. Now, one of you, if I understand correctly, did training in, of all places, for a sailor. Farragut, Idaho. That was both of us. Both of you. Okay. You have to explain. What is a sailor doing in Farragut, Idaho? Well, it's a big lake they find around in Idaho. Beautiful time. And it happened Dan served in one of the camps there, Camp L. And two years later, that's where I was sent to Camp L, so we got trained in the same camp. Nice. Tell us about your experiences in basic training. What was that like for you? Well, I would say it was interesting and I think very helpful in changing us from a young kid into adulthood. I enjoyed it. Same for you, Edgar? Well, I did. I couldn't help but think my boot camp, which I never had gone as a teenager to a summer camp, but my experience provides it that far. And then some. It's very adventurous, right? Yeah, it was good exercise. Wonderful atmosphere. So very, very, like Dan says, happy memories. Yeah. Well, Dan, let's start with you. This might be a difficult question to answer, but give us a typical day when you're on this destroyer escort. You said the D-Tisdale. Give us a typical day on the Tisdale. Well, you would have Reveille at, I forget now what the Reveille hour was. I think it was around 6 o'clock and you would get up and have your breakfast and you would go on watch. Did you have port calls while you were on the Tisdale? Did you go to any of the islands in the Pacific? We went to the islands, but we never got off the ship. I understand. Except for Pearl Harbor. Tell us about that experience. I enjoyed just going into the city and eating good food, a lot of ice cream. So at that point in time, I'm glad you mentioned that because I wasn't aware. At that point in time, you know, we look at Pearl Harbor now and the memorial there. What did it look like at that point? Was there still wreckage in the water? Did it still look like it had been attacked? I really don't recall except we did pass by the Oklahoma, which I think is still entombed in the water reserve. What kind of emotions, if you can recall, did you have once you saw the USS Oklahoma in the water? It was devastating and something that you had to live with. Sure. Not to be thrilled of it. Sure. But you also knew you had to carry on and do your job, do your duty. Right, right. Edgar, sort of the same question. What was a typical day like for you while you were stationed in Hawaii? Well, our shift, we worked in three shifts, eight hours each. And it was just like going to an office job. And in between each shift, we were on two days of leave. So it was just, as I say, like an office. But the most amazing thing that happened to us, Dan and I, and neither one of us can remember how this came about, but we got together on Oahu in Honolulu. He was off of his ship and I was off duty. So we got a chance to get together. I spent another one of the nights on Dan's ship unbeknownst. I was going to say, it's probably not allowed. You blended in well, though. Did you guys know each other were going to be at the same time by phone call or how did you know that? I think we just met on the street. Okay. So you just happened to meet each other. Neither Dan or I can remember how that happened because he couldn't transmit information about where he was. But there we were together. Dan recalls that we happened to run into each other in Honolulu. What are the chances of that? Wow. What do you remember about that night on the Tisdale? Well, we had chow and chatted with all of our shipmates, and it was really a very interesting time to have. But when it was time for the ship to leave the next day, Dan had to get me ready and prepped. I don't know whose fault it was. Mine or his, but I almost missed getting off. He wanted you to swim back. I can't even imagine coming that close to sailing off to the Pacific. How many sailors were on the escort? I think we had about 180. Okay. And we had reasonably good food and a wonderful – well, in fact, our first skipper was a regular Navy guy and sort of hard to get close to. And then after he left, our executive officer, Mr. Hatfield, was just a very cordial man and knew that we had a duty, and he knew how to get the most out of us, and just a wonderful man. I'm glad you mentioned that, Dan, because I'm curious from both of you. Tell us a little bit about – in the Army it's called the soldiering process. I'm sure it's something similar in the Navy. But tell us about becoming a sailor. Was that a difficult process for you? Did you fit in pretty well? Well, we had boot camp, and that was – what was it, 12 weeks? Twelve weeks. And it was really quite stringent. And I enjoyed it because it kept me in shape – or got me in shape. And I enjoyed it, really. What about you, Edgar? Well, as I said before, I'd never went to summer camp. So boot camp was really enjoyable. You get all that exercise, the training, the being with other men that way. I came across this wonderful experience at boot camp. What time of year were you there, Edgar? I graduated from high school in June of 1944 and went to a summer camp up in Michigan as a counselor for the summer and got back just in time. And I turned 18 in September and shortly thereafter got inducted into the Navy. The weather was pretty good up in Idaho when you were there? Yes. We had our first snowfall in Idaho, and our drill instructor got us out on the ground and had us marching and doing about-faces on snow. And, Dan, were you there at a similar time of year, or were you there a different time of year when you went? I think I went in January or February. So you saw a lot of snow. It was quite cold. Yeah. But they had us have a new grinder and drilling, and that kept us warm. So was a grinder a big parade field type of thing? Yeah. Okay. That's where they marched around and did your exercise program. So tell us, we'll start with you, Dan, since you entered prior to your brother. Tell us about the end of your service, what you remember about that. Oh, gosh. Well, we were in Pearl Harbor at the time the war ended. So you were still in up until the very end. Oh, yeah. I was able to go back or come back home for a 30-day leave and went right back again and stayed until decommissioning. Wow. I think August of 45 is when the Pacific Theater ended. When they signed the surrender. Surrender, yep. And then, Edgar, for you, what do you remember about the end of your service? Well, the end of the war was over, and I had the opportunity to volunteer. I did extend my term if I would go to Washington, D.C., and work for three months in Washington, D.C. And there again, I was just office help and had a regular office job, and I was free whenever I wasn't working. So I enjoyed being in Washington, D.C. as well. But the major thing that was taking place was the honor of getting the benefit of the G.I. Bill of Rights, and my older brother was able to get his college education. And I also. So all three of us went to the same college at the same time. Nice. And Bob, our older brother, was wanting to get married to his fiancee, so he went to summer school and finished a year earlier in his degree. I'm glad you mentioned that about the G.I. Bill. I think I've heard one of you two say this before, but, you know, Edgar, you had kind of mentioned that people call me a hero, and I've told them before, that's not me. But I've heard one of you say that in a lot of ways, when you think about military service, you're kind of grateful for the service because of the things it provided you, whether it's the G.I. Bill or the experiences you had. Give us an idea of all the types of benefits and the things you feel appreciative of because of your service. Well, again, you found, as most of the men found, lifetime friendship with some of the fellows you worked with. And that continued on all during college years and beyond, of course. So that was a wonderful experience. Now, was one of you reactivated at some point, I think, in the 50s? At what? Were you reactivated, Dan, at some point in the Navy? Yes. Tell us about how that came about. Well, we took advantage of the G.I. Bill to go to college and, let's see, that'll track you. Is this around like 1950 or so you get reactivated into the service? And then I got into college and I wrote a term paper on sonar. And in order to get the information I wanted, I went down to the Naval Reserve Armory and asked if I could go to their library. They said, yes, if you belong to the regular Army or the— That's how they get you. They were negotiating with you. Yeah. So I only had six months yet to do on my college education. And then after I graduated, they called me back in to serve over in the Atlantic. But I enjoyed both experiences. Where exactly did you serve when you were reactivated? Where in the Atlantic? Were you over in Great Britain or something? Well, the coastline of Europe. Okay. I was in the Mediterranean on the Descrier escort. And we began—we started writing letters. And he was on like a tour of the Mediterranean and had stopped at many famous places and did sightseeing. And we would write about what all he saw. It's just he said he visited Greece, Paris. Yeah, I was going to say Athens, probably. Athens, Greece, Paris. Did you go to Rome? Things like that? Yeah, Rome. I also went up to Switzerland. Wow. Education. I'm sure. Enjoyable experience. So you kind of got a taste of Edgar's experience in Hawaii there, but a little bit later. Edgar, I wanted to ask you a little bit about your—something about Washington, D.C. You were there in the 40s, correct? Yes. Okay. So my question is because I grew up with all the monuments and all the things that are in Washington, D.C. now. So when you were there, there weren't as many probably, of course. What was there in Washington, D.C. at that time? Well, actually, every important museum was there at that time. That was in the early 50s. Early 50s, okay. And so, you know, things we saw, heard about, read about, the Capitol, Lincoln Memorial, the Washington Monument, those are all mighty wonderful things. Oh, absolutely. To have seen. Have you been back several times since and seen everything else that's new there now? Yes. What is your thought about the difference between your first time being there and the subsequent times? Well, the second time or the third time, I was just a tourist and I always enjoyed seeing all those monuments over again. Yeah. Now, if I understand correctly, both of you are involved in some capacity with the Ride to the Wall. I'd love for you to tell me about your experience with the Ride to the Wall and seeing the motorcycles and vets and supporters of veterans. Well, I am fearful of flying, so I never went on the Honor Flight. The Honor Flight. I got you. Okay. Edgar, you have done the Honor Flight? Oh, yes. And it was one of my life's most memorable experiences. And that was one of those times that you were in D.C. and you saw the monuments, okay. And then my first time to Washington, D.C., so that was a wonderful tribute or gift to be given. I'm sure it was. Yeah. So, Edgar is into flying, but Dan, not so much. Oh, not so much. And by the time you left the States, you were on a boat everywhere you went, right? Right. Okay. It was a destroyer escort. Yeah. And when you took your 30-day pass back home, was that by boat? You came home by boat? Yeah. Oh, wow. Okay. So then tell us, since the Honor Flight's not quite dealt with, your thing, yeah. So tell us about Ride to the Wall and why that's important to you, Edgar. Well, I don't know. I never went on any Ride to the Wall or anything else. I don't think I ever had that experience. Now, you guys will stand, if I understand correctly, you'll stand over the highway as they're riding by. They do a stop somewhere here. Tell us about the experience of seeing, whether it's veterans on motorcycles or supporters of veterans. It's just a cause of rising of gratitude for having served in the armed service and so many of the guys still keeping the tradition alive. So when you, both of you, when you look back at your service and when you recognize the fact that you were part of an enormously significant moment in human history and you played a part in the Allies winning the war, you played a part in the Axis powers being destroyed and sort of a new world order coming about, how did that make you feel when you think about your part in history? I feel very grateful for having had the opportunity to serve in the armed services, especially the Navy. I just feel grateful I was able to do that. And you, Edgar? I feel the same way. It was an honor and I wouldn't have missed it for the world. And I feel like it would be a disservice if I didn't ask, and this, maybe some people think this is a hackneyed question, but what message would both of you give to generations now and future generations about service to the country, patriotism, that sort of thing? Well, I would think that everybody should have sense enough to be grateful to live in a country like the United States. For that privilege, there are some circumstances that have to be fought for and I just feel very grateful for having gone through that experience. And you, Edgar? Well, the experience of being in the service really strengthened our commitment and involvement in democracy and to be a part of that and have the continuation of the government that we have and the wonderful country that we live in, that's been a real privilege. And earlier, Edgar, you had mentioned the benefit of being able to access the GI Bill. I want to be sure to ask this question. Tell us a little bit about your lives post-service. What types of things did you accomplish? What types of things did you experience once you were out of the service? Well, as you said, we went to four years of college and that was a wonderful experience that we were grateful for. We've had several ship reunions and guys would gather together and have fun and just watch stories and all that. It gave me a real sense of joy to be part of it. Sure. What was your career, Dan, after the service? A salesman. And what kind of industry were you in? Well, I sold margarine for a black company in St. Louis. Okay. Excellent. And what about you, Edgar? Well, I always had dreamed of becoming an officer, but in college I met calculus. Not so forgiving. I was not so forgiving, so I got a degree in human relations. It was a form of social work. And so after I graduated from college, I became a boy's worker in a settlement house in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Okay. Two years of that, and I had the opportunity to get a graduate degree in social work. And after that, I went to Detroit, spent over 30 years there. Dan was also in Detroit working in this field, so we lived together for a number of years. Wow. And Dan and I had a whole life career in social work. I can tell the two of you have a strong bond. Yeah. You know, I get it, brothers, but I think there's something more there. I'm really grateful for both of you being here and agreeing to be interviewed together. Yes. I appreciate it. Something that you had said, Dan, that reminded me is that sometimes you need to essentially pay the price. Pay the price, and there are sacrifices to be made for living in a nation such as ours where there's freedom and independence. You know, we just recently celebrated the Army's 250th birthday. Here's a word for you. The word for that is semi-quincentennial for 250. I say that three times fast. And then next year will be the semi-quincentennial of our nation's birth, 2026 all the way back to 1776. So personally, as someone who has grown up in a free nation and a place where I'm able to decide the things that I want to do and make the decisions that I feel are best for me and my family, I want to thank Dan and Edgar for being here. I want to thank, in honor of your brother Bob, I want to thank him. Thank you for your service to the nation. Thank you for your dedication to the values that we aspire to here in the United States. Thank you. Yeah, thank you, sirs. I appreciate you, Dan and Edgar, for taking your time and your being able to share with the world what you did. And it's very consequential in my book, and we're very grateful for you. And we hope that this story reaches a lot of people. We're going to go ahead and sign off on the Operation Insight podcast at the Mid-America Veterans Museum. [♪ music playing ♪ Operation Insight is brought to you by the Mid-America Veterans Museum. The museum is a 501c3 nonprofit business. Do you like our podcast? 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