Sherley 2

Shirley Joseph discusses the importance of embracing mistakes and imperfections in the creative process. She references Beyonce's journey to success and emphasizes the need for growth and learning from experience. The conversation then shifts to a new law, Bill C-21, which requires streaming and digital content companies to register with the CRTC and contribute to digital content creation in Canada. Shirley explains that the law primarily targets large companies and aims to support Canadian creators and provide grants for independent productions. However, there are concerns about potential backlash and restrictions on Canadian content if companies refuse to comply. It is hoped that agreements can be reached to ensure continued visibility for content creators. This issue is also seen in the recent disputes between social media platforms and news outlets regarding copyright fees. TikTok has successfully reached agreements to allow news outlets on its platform, while other companies like Hello, I had the pleasure of speaking to Shirley Joseph, today's guest, for over an hour. Since it went longer, I've decided to split up the interview into two parts. So this is the second part of a two-part interview. To hear part one, you can listen to episode five, and then come back to listen to the second part. Enjoy the show. Yeah, I mean, I don't know why I get scared when, maybe not scared, but a bit of a flag up when I hear people like, you know, everything has to be perfect, has to be perfect. You know, and it's like, that's wild. You know, why do you put yourself into that pressure? You know, and I can't work with people like that, because then you're not allowing the beauty of, you know, the beauty of mistakes and delays are meant sometimes to happen, because that's the greatest time and moments where you're gonna gain so much experience from it, right? And it helps establish more and more of who you are to discover how you do deal during those times, right? So it does not have to be perfect. Perfection will happen as you continue to be open to growth and mistakes, and just to keep trying that eventually you become like, you know, one day you'll have like your renaissance, right? Like, it's wild. Like, you know, just seeing people like Beyonce, if you look at where she started and it's like, you know, it takes, how many things happen in her whole history of being who she is, right? Like, look how having a public breakup in terms of the group that she was in and just everything, right? And so it's like, that doesn't come from perfection. Like, it doesn't come from like, let's be perfect right away, right, from the jump. It comes from like, just keep going, embrace these mistakes, embrace these changes, embrace, you know, all the different nuances that life will throw at you because it just makes you stronger and better that you get to that point where now you're presenting a renaissance concert that looks, that gets to be practically perfection, you know? But that took like, what, 20 some years to get there. And so that's the same thing in anything I say as a content creator, not just to myself, but anyone that I've talked to who are content creators to be like, if they're thinking of starting a blog or a YouTube or a podcast, it's like, embrace mistakes. You know, don't let trying to start to be perfect from the jump stop you to create and to do it. Like, just, again, goes back to just do it, you know? I agree. Yeah, you're not supposed to be good at something you've never done before. So it's good to prepare. You learn a little bit by doing some research and trying to have a plan, but you also have to be flexible and you'll also learn by doing it. And you can't, there's certain lessons you can't learn without doing it. So it's so true. The last thing, and unless there's something else you want to add, the last thing I kind of wanted to talk about was the new law that's kind of come out. It's hard enough to be a creator to deal with your self-doubts and your own inner work, but now it seems like the government is also against you. What do you think about the new regulations? I forget, it's Bill- Bill Z. Z? Yeah, 2019, is it 21? Something like that. Yeah, so just, if you can, explain a little bit about it for anybody who might know and then let me know what you think about it. Yeah, so I've had, I was hit up a lot by a lot of people like, oh my God, we gotta register the podcaster, which is not true. I think it's a great thing about it if you take the time to actually read what it's about. So the whole bill really is asking streaming companies or big podcast companies, and not just podcasters, digital creators overall, digital creation companies to register with the CRTC. So whether you make $10 million or more in revenue or you are a streamer for digital content. So it focuses, this bill is more focused for the Spotify, Amazon Music, any huge podcast network that makes $10 million or above. What they're asking is, by registering yourself with the CRTC, you're going to comply with certain things, right? Which is mainly like, it's mainly asking you to contribute some money into digital content creation in Canada. The good thing by doing this, and this is like, television and film are already doing that, right? Like CBC or, I don't know, Dismantle Media or any of these production companies have to register with the CRTC. That money that you pull in, either by paying your membership or I don't know, however else in terms of like, is that you need to contribute, it helps to provide not just jobs for Canadians in television and film, but also to provide grants for independent television and film houses or productions or animation houses, things like that. So that's what this can do with this bill. Now, there'll be not only big companies that are in the digital creation realm. So they're asking that because they've noticed, okay, I'm noticing a lot of Canadians are using, I don't know, Spotify in order to be starting their podcast or we're noticing a lot of Canadians are using, Apple podcasts in order to have their show. So they're saying, okay, wherever we're noticing a lot of Canadian creators like you and I, as a platform, you should register and contribute to the digital creation economy in Canada because then that can help to A, create grants in order for us to have access to as content creators and B, in order to, if a company like, let's say, I'm just throwing an example. I'm not saying they're doing that, but like, let's say Amazon decides to, we're gonna start Amazon Podcast Network in Canada, then CRTC will say, okay, great, sure, you can do that. But as a registered platform of digital content, you have to make sure that you hire X amount of people in Canada. So that way it gives a chance for someone like you and me to probably, to have a better chance to apply than them saying, oh, we're just gonna get a bunch of people from Amazon in the States to come to Canada and just start off the production. And it's just, you know what I mean? So that's a good thing. Now, the other thing is, is that the questionable stuff is like, it's the transparency of that. Like, well, what else is, you know, does that mean, will there be limitations for these digital content companies? What are the limitations? What are certain things that they can or cannot do? But overall to say, in terms of like, small independent content creators like ourselves, we do not have to register at all. It's more focused for, think of the platforms that you're using where you're creating content. That's who they're asking to register. I hope that makes sense. Yeah, I think it makes sense to me. That was really detailed. My question, my kind of comeback for that is, I understand what they're trying to do. There was also a bill earlier this year, or I don't know if it was a bill law, something that had to do with the news media. I think the goal of the bill was to, I haven't really looked into it, was to try to protect the copyrights of like a Toronto Star or something like that. And then the backlash from Meta, Instagram and Facebook, has been to now censor media outlets on social media. So you can't see anything on their page anymore. I don't even know if their links work anymore. So my concern with the newest, this law, I understand kind of what they're trying to do, but is there potential where there might be backlash where these companies pull out or restrict how much they show or just stop showing, promoting, streaming Canadian content? That's a concern with this new bill related to digital content, because that's what's happening. That's the reason why we can't see news outlets on Instagram or anything related to Meta and things like that. Because they're saying to Meta, to Google, yeah, you need to pay this fee. And they're like, yeah, we're not doing that. And so because of them not doing that, they're saying then we're not going to showcase anything related to news to the people in Canada, right? So it's not just like, so other like NBC, things like that, like, yeah, we're not gonna adhere to that. So I don't know what's the discussion about it, but that is the concern with Bill C-21 is that if they've pushed streaming companies like Meta to register or pay the fee, which now is creating for the inability to see news outlets on like Instagram, let's say, is that what's gonna happen with the digital content platform? And that's the concern right now. And it's valid. And it's hoping that I think as content creators to push on like, please pay or please come to an agreement with the CRTC so that way we can still be seen or heard, right? I know TikTok is right now the only social platform because that other bill that you're talking about is focuses on social platforms. So Meta said no. I think Yahoo said no. I think Google, I think, I'm not 100%, I could be wrong on that, said no, which that, you know what I mean? So, but TikTok hasn't said no. TikTok understands like, okay, we don't want you to not continue to see this and we understand, so they've come to an agreement. So if you go to TikTok, you can still see CBC and, you know, Buy Blacks or any other of these news outlet because they've made the work to understand the importance that as creators, we still want to receive the news on your platform, right? So I feel like, I don't know what it is, why Meta is not seeing what TikTok is seeing, but definitely TikTok is doing it to be ahead of its time and to be ahead of all these social platforms, right? So I hope that with this new bill that companies that are now providing content creators for us the ability to be seen and heard that they come to an agreement with CRTC so that way that's not blocked either, right? So yeah, it's like, and that's one of the concerns of transparency in that with this new bill and what's going on currently and the responsibility on these huge millions and billion dollar companies to have this understanding of having like, you know, to negotiate in a way so that way that doesn't get in the way of affecting us as content creators because I think that that's why I kind of love TikTok because I think they understand that, can we really have to work with Canada and what they're asking because without the content creators, we have nothing, right? So I think there's like some growth in that and there's some learning curves that they've understood and I hope that the learning curve that companies like Meta will see that too, right? So we'll see, we shall see. But in terms of like what you're hearing in terms of free speech, I don't think that's our thing, but who knows? Is there part of the bill that does require streaming sites to give them subscriber information? I was hearing something about that. I don't believe... Like a list of their subscribers? Not that I know of, but I mean, I think I shared in the Facebook group, there is like, if you search the bill, if you actually search the bill, truth and facts and then CRTC on Google, you could see all that information. And you know what? Because the CRTC put that information out, you can actually email the media team, media relations team or actually call the CRTC and ask these questions in terms of like subscribers. And the thing is in Canada, we're huge on privacy. So we have a huge like compared to, I'm not sure about other countries, but I know Canada is huge on. Privacy is like gold for us, right? So it would take a billions of dollars to even consider that or do that. And I think it would be highly unlawful. So if you look at the Bill of Rights in terms of Canada's privacy, and so when I hear people say like, these bills are gonna get in the way of like our, you know, freedom of speech, they can't do that because that's part of the Bill of Rights as well. And so I share all this in the Facebook group. You know, this is your Bill of Rights. This is the section that talks about that. They cannot do anything like, they can't get in the way of what you say when it comes to freedom of speech and it explains what is our freedom of speech. And so that would be another area that you would have to check your Bill of Rights in terms of privacy. And because in Canada, we're so tight sticklers on it, they cannot get the data. I lean that if they wouldn't be able to gain subscribers information. Okay, that's good to know. Do you know what Twitter slash X's policy on this? Have they reacted? I don't know. I don't know. I'd have to see what Elon Musk has said. Yeah, cause I'm not on there. Same. I don't know what they do over there. Same, it's become like Jurassic Park over there, you know? I have no idea. I don't even know like, are they able to even show like things or something? I have no idea. Honestly, I used to go to Twitter in order to kind of get like the very latest news, you know, but noticing that a lot of journalists and a lot of newspapers that's kind of like dwindle and minimize the usage of Twitter. It's not been the most reliable source lately for me. Yeah, no, same. I agree. My thing, I was just thinking about how kind of TikTok is willing to be a little bit more flexible and cooperate along with the bill versus meta. And I think part of it may be just because TikTok is new and they're already struggling not to get banned in the US. I think they are banned in India. So I think they have to be more willing to kind of compromise. Well, Instagram and Facebook slash Facebook meta has been around decades now. And so I think they may feel like they have the power. I believe they've done this in other, I didn't really look into it, but I was listening to other people talk about it and apparently it's gonna happen in Europe too, where they try to put this law into effect and then they have to come to a compromise with, I don't know what ended up kind of happening in earlier cases. So I guess we'll wait and see. I mean, it really also comes down to the consumer as well. Like I think Facebook and Instagram is betting that most Canadians are just gonna keep using our platform. So why should we compromise now? Yeah, what do you think about all that? My biggest concern, the whole copyright thing, I think it's difficult because it's easy to say you have to pay, but like there's so many people on that platform. They use AI, they don't use people and their AI messes up all the time. So I think it's like, are they willing to track it? Are they able to track it and keep on top of all the copyright issues? I understand what the government is trying to do. They're trying to support these media outlets that are a lot of them struggling, but I don't know if they can force meta to do anything at this point, because they're so big. For podcasting, I think it's great that they're trying to support Canadian, I guess the entertainment slash Canadian media industry. I understand the goal is to help, but again, I'm concerned that the creators will be the ones to suffer for it. Yeah. And people, most Canadians, like they don't really care. Most of what they listen to is from the US anyways. So if a lot of the Canadian shows were just removed or silenced, would there be any real backlash? Yeah. I don't know. This is why it's important I say, regardless of, there's sometimes like, that's one of the biggest push that, especially black creators, right? These outlets or these platforms are known to not have pushed us too much, right? And that's why it's important to have some form of ownership as a content creator. Now, I understand not everybody can afford it, but if you can, this is why it's important to, like for me, I'll use me as an example. I've seen so many new content creators out here and they don't have a website and they've put all of their, like they'll write now because Instagram is really pushing on less on hashtags and more on like keywords and things like that. So the new trend that you're seeing, it's not that new, but people write long, 2000 character, whatever is the limit on Instagram, almost like mini blogs on Instagram and it's amazing work and they get tons of engagement. And what if Instagram goes away? What do you do then, right? And that's why I always talk to, especially us, because I mean, if it wasn't for social media, the voice, we've gained so much voices. There's so many nuances of who we are that we've discovered thanks to social media. Like us even finding each other and having this conversation thanks to social media, couldn't do this 20 years ago because there was so many companies or networks, whether it's television, radio, film, that wasn't really pushing us too much, especially here in Canada that look like us. Gatekeepers. Yep, gatekeepers. Huge gatekeepers, yeah. So this is why it's so important that I say, if you can buy yourself a domain, it costs on average $25 a year. Find a hosting platform. And even if it's like a simple one page website that allows you to have a couple of pages where you can have a blog and about us, contact us page, do so as long as it's not breaking your pocket in order to transfer all that stuff that you're putting on social because of these laws, because hey, if Vine disappears, it doesn't mean that other platforms won't disappear either. Because if it does, whether it disappears or whether these kind of bills affect, especially us as in our community that looks like us, it's so important to invest on getting a social, like get a domain, get a hosting service. And if you have a podcast, try to get a hosting service where you pay and not just the hosting services that gives you their platform for free. Because number one, they could do whatever with that with your work because you're not paying for it and your podcast is living on their platform. That's number one. And number two, if one day it goes away, your whole podcast is gone, right? That's why, yes, there is a cost, but at least you're protecting your trademark, your brand and all that work that you're putting on these other platforms. And yeah, so I really push on that. So that way our voices are not gonna disappear because so many of us are relying on these platforms to put our work out there. So if you can, if you can find a way to budget, I say at least $500 a year of where your podcast would live, where you have a website in order to put, like embed that podcast on your site and also you have your domain. So that way, if by chance anyone wants to copy and do exactly what you're doing, you have on record online that this is your work. Do so, I encourage you to do so. I agree, I'm working on my website now. If just for anybody who's kind of like, how do I start? Where do I start? If you're going to be selling, and even if you're not, there's a program called Digital Mainstreet that I'm working with and they help you set up your website. A lot of the, cause they have like Shopify and kind of deals with that, with Shopify and all that. So if you're not selling something, they can't really build it for you, but they can still advise you and kind of review your website and give you tips. So I think that's a great place to start. And I completely agree, build an email list, make sure you're on multiple sites as much as you can, even if you're not posting regularly, don't commit to one platform because even before this bill, platforms go down all the time. People's accounts get hacked all the time. People's accounts get shut down all the time for no reason. You could be doing everything right. And AI, the algorithm AI system, since there's no real humans can make a mistake. There goes your platform. So I agree. That's great advice. Yeah. And AI- Is there anything else you want to add? Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. That's a whole one hour episode right there. Was there anything else you want to add before? And then you can also just plug your next event as well. Sure. Well, thanks for having me. Thank you for reaching out. Keep doing what you're doing. You know, I say this in a way too, kind of like a reminder. Keep plugging away. Keep doing it. Yeah, no, definitely keep doing what you're doing. Thank you for having me. Thank you for reaching out. I know that it takes a lot of courage to do that. And like I said, it separates you from everyone else. As a content creator, it's huge to reach out. And the only thing for me is that, yeah, look out for Black Canadian Creators. We're going to have another social bite, another networking in-person event in Toronto. So feel free when you go to Black Canadian Creators on Instagram, click on the link and then join the newsletter in order to receive once we have the exact date to participate. I really would love, you know, eventually for 2024 to kind of move social bites in different parts of Canada, like whether it's Montreal, Toronto, well, if you're starting in Toronto, but like Vancouver and things like that, Winnipeg. So that is something I'm putting out there. So, you know, like we talked, you asked me the question, like asking for help. I'm asking for help. If you're thinking maybe we can work together, if you're in Winnipeg or Vancouver or Montreal and we can collaborate to help you have like your own kind of social bites that's presented by Black Canadian Creators, please don't be shy, reach out. I'm all about collaboration. You know, I've really pushed on it this year and I'm continuing to do so. That's what Black Canadian Creators is all about. It's all about connectivity, community, supporting each other. How do we, you know, as content creators, sometimes we work, we're still silo and we're still on our own. So I'm really huge on like, if you have any idea and you need an extra pair of like support, I'm really good to get the people there for you, predominantly content creators. And then, so if you have an idea, I'm open to work with you and collaborate and let's make it into reality. Yeah, so you can, again, reach me, Black Canadian Creators, or you can email me, BlackCanadianCreators at gmail.com. Thank you for your kind words and your encouragement. I'll make sure to put the links in the description for everyone so they can connect with you. And thank you for your time. Thank you, Ashton. Thank you, have a great day.