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Prof. Shlomo Maital and R. Elisha Wolfin discuss Parashat Toldot, and how the darkness is the vessel for light.
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Prof. Shlomo Maital and R. Elisha Wolfin discuss Parashat Toldot, and how the darkness is the vessel for light.
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Prof. Shlomo Maital and R. Elisha Wolfin discuss Parashat Toldot, and how the darkness is the vessel for light.
Listen to podcast #41: Parashat Toldot by Elisha Wolfin MP3 song. podcast #41: Parashat Toldot song from Elisha Wolfin is available on Audio.com. The duration of song is 33:21. This high-quality MP3 track has 2304 kbps bitrate and was uploaded on 15 Nov 2023. Stream and download podcast #41: Parashat Toldot by Elisha Wolfin for free on Audio.com – your ultimate destination for MP3 music.
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Shlomo and Elisha are celebrating Rosh Chodesh Kislev and Shlomo's birthday. They discuss the process of writing and thinking. Elisha mentions a course on focusing and accessing new information. They talk about the power of the Torah and how to live according to it. They discuss the complexity of recognizing blessings and the two-step process of validating and acting on them. They mention the recent tragedy and how to find blessings in difficult times. Shlomo's new book is mentioned. They talk about the darkness of creation and the importance of turning matter into a vessel for blessings. They discuss the recent event and the ongoing war, acknowledging the difficulty in finding blessings but expressing hope for the future. Shalom Shlomo. Shalom Elisha. It's an important day for a number of reasons. First of all it's Rosh Chodesh, Rosh Chodesh Kislev, which means the month of Cheshvan, Mar Cheshvan, the bitter Cheshvan is over and the month of the light and miracles is starting and may that be a sign for a big shift and a big change in reality. Amen. Amen, amen. And the second cause for celebration is your birthday. Your Hebrew birthday is on the first of Kislev, on Rosh Chodesh Kislev. 1942. 1942, so Shlomo is 81 years old. And it's a real blessing and as Aviva said a few minutes ago, she said, ah, so you were born Rosh Chodesh Kislev. So now we understand where all the light comes from. Well, the light comes from all the blessings that I have and this podcast is one of them, Elisha, and we've done almost 40 of them. And it leads me to a question. Sometimes I figure out what I'm thinking only when I write the words down. And I think of the words and I write them down and then I read the words and then I realize what I'm thinking. How does that work with you in your wonderful dress shirt? Do you think first and then write it down? Do you do this in the course of writing it down? Do you read what you write? What's the process? Yeah, that's a good question. It's a good question only because I'm not so sure I know the answer. Right now I'm enrolled in a special program. I'm a follower of a great Jewish thinker actually, even though he never identified as Jewish, but he is a Jew born in Austria and immigrated to America right before the war. His name is Eugene Jendlin and he developed the whole idea of focusing and what's called the felt sense, which has become very popular in psychology thanks to him. He was a philosopher but also a psychologist and he did his, while already a professor of philosophy, he did his PhD, if I'm not mistaken, in psychology in the University of Chicago. And basically the course I'm enrolled in now is all about, it's called TAE, thinking at the edge. And it's the way we access new information that's coming up in our psyche. And his psychology mentor, Carl Rogers, who was his guide in his doctoral thesis, was also deeply impacted by that. So, to try and answer your question, we're really practicing now in this course. It's a very deep, deep course. Most of it is with eyes closed actually. Trying to access wisdom. And so I've learned over time to just start writing. Start writing. Sometimes I have an idea that I start with and then just write and see what comes up. Almost always it ends up different from what I originally intended. And then reading it over and over again, I make a lot of changes and it gets the shape that it eventually gets. So, no, the answer is no. I have no idea what I'm going to write before I sit down. Well, I think I've finally come to learn the power of your dress shirt and it's related to focusing. Because you are focused on a single question in your dress shirt. And that's the key question for all of us. What does the Torah and the Parsha tell us about how we should live? That's the issue. And you find the answers even in Vayikra with all the sacrifices and so on. Somehow you found a way to tell us how we should live. And this is especially true of Toldot which is a powerful, powerful Parsha. It's about genealogy, Toldot, generations. Genealogy is a line of descent traced continuously from ancestors. And we are descended from Adam. And as you note in your wonderful dress shirt, Adam was blessed by God. And when they were created, they means men and women because that was together in Adam at the time. When they were created, God blessed them and called them Adam. So, unlike Christianity where there's a concept of original sin, we all, according to them, bear the sin of our ancestors. We Jews are blessed with the original blessing from Adam. But it's not so simple as you point out. It's not so simple. Before you get to the complexity, that was a beautiful framing. I really like the way you framed it. Kind of this comparison between original sin versus original blessing. So, now let's go to complexity. So, the complexity has to do with what do we do with it? What do we do with it? And you make the perfect point that there is a two-step process to reaping the fruits of the blessing. By the way, we're still in very trying times after several weeks of war and it's continuing. And it's a little hard to find blessings. I'm going to ask you later about how we deal with this. But your point is crucial here. The two-step process for recognizing the blessing. Step one. And this is related to focusing as well that you mentioned. Step one, which is to validate. Validate means we look inside ourself to figure out who we really are. Who are we? What is our purpose here on earth? What are our skills, our qualities? What do we bring to the world? Step one, crucial step. And step two, actuate. We have to actuate what we see inside ourself to become a blessing to the world. Alicia, I spent 40 years teaching economics and writing economics. I am not destined to be an economist. That is not me. And I found that out after taking retirement when I was 61 years old. But it's not too late. It's never too late. Each of us needs to look deep inside ourselves, validate who we are, and then actuate. Then act on that to act and be a blessing, especially in times like now. And by actuating, by doing little things, it greatly helps us overcome the deep trauma of this terrible massacre of October 7th. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And I just want to point out that I know it's only a draft because it's written on the book. Shlomo, who has written many books, just came out with another book. It's called Ninja, Your Path to Venture Success. So written with Avner Ghal, Shlomo Ital, and Eliezer Schein. So I'm looking forward to reading this. So just so you know, if any of those listening have either retired or thinking of retiring, it's only the beginning of another wave of creativity. So I actually want to address what you said and link it to what you suggested we'll talk about later. And I want to talk about maybe now as opposed to later, connected to what's happening right now in Israel, in the world, referring to the 7th of October and its aftermath. So I've kind of evolved a little bit in my own thinking and probably forever will, hopefully that is. And I've come to the conclusion that creation, the world, as we see it, as we know it, as we experience it, is neither good nor bad, but it is darkness. And we did talk about that in an earlier episode, I think, on Bereshit, that really the world, we're always rushing to, and God said, let there be light, and there was light. But really before there was light, the creation of the world, in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. There was darkness over the abyss. And so really creation itself is the creation of darkness. Now it sounds very gloomy, but I want to suggest that it's not gloomy at all, and it's not darkness in the sense that we're thinking right now. It's darkness because it's meaningless. It's darkness because it's simply matter. Matter, let's take water. Water is a wonderful substance. Without water, there's no life. But we also know that too much water, and there's a flood, and people, just like what happened in Libya a few months ago, thousands and thousands of people were killed because of the torrential rains, which killed a lot of people. So water can be a blessing, water can be a curse. Water is simply water. So reality, as we know it, is simply matter. And matter can be good, can be bad, can be neutral. The question is, what do we do with that matter? And that's the thing where blessing comes in. That's where let there be light comes in, that it's really up to us to turn the matter, pun intended, I guess, both as the physical matter or the matter at hand, turned into a blessing or a curse or even keep it neutral. I love the fall season. I love it. Some people don't. For me, this weather outside, I know this weather is just weather. That's all it is. It's really nothing special. For me, this weather is so enlivening. It brings me so much joy. The cooler air, the clouds in the sky, a drizzle here and there. I love it. But I do know that it's just some clouds and the sun is simply in a different angle and that's basically all it is. So this whole discourse in the Torah about, and God said, let there be light, and there was light. And then there was blessing. And then we continue the blessing. Adam and Eve were blessed. Noah was blessed. Abraham was blessed. Isaac was blessed. Jacob was blessed. And we're all blessed. We bless our children, et cetera, et cetera. Blessing is basically, what it teaches us, I think, is that matter is simply a vessel. It's a vessel without which there can be no blessing. So we needed matter. We needed creation. In order to be a vessel for light and a vessel for blessing. And God, on God's part, in my theology, God said, let there be light. God is the source of all blessing. God is the source of all light. But it's up to us. The freedom of choice is to turn matter from neutral to be a source, to be a vessel for God's light, for God's blessing. And that's what the Torah is educating us here to do. So this event that took place on the 7th of October, which was horrible, absolutely horrible. If I'm able to detach myself a little bit, I recognize horrors like this were rampant in human history, in Jewish history. Neither good nor bad. We think of it as bad. But that's what humans have always, always done. They were cruel. And we now have the freedom of choice to turn this event, this matter, into a blessing. And right now we're in the middle of a war. It's hard to think of the blessing. But we will see the blessing. And it will yield blessing. So to follow up on that, Elisha, I kind of looked into this, about how do we see the blessing in the darkness. And there's so much darkness, Elisha. I guess you've noticed. Attendance in our tefillah, in our prayers, has increased. People find great comfort. The shul is crowded on Friday night. And we get great comfort in singing. But at the same time, Elisha, we hear people saying, many people, how hard it is to say the words of the prayer because they praise God. It's pretty hard to praise God right now after such a traumatic event. But on the other side, Elisha, I've done some research on trauma and growth and work by a psychologist named Tedeschi. And Tedeschi has discovered that most people, 70% of those who suffer trauma, I mean real trauma, 70% recover without any post-trauma or side effects. How come? Because they use trauma for growth. We use it. We see the light in the darkness. And just very quickly to tell you how that happens, people who suffer trauma and recover strongly learn that they can count on other people in times of trouble, have a sense of closeness with others, willingness to express their emotions, develop new interests, a feeling of self-reliance, knowing they can handle difficulties. Elisha, these are all things that are happening as we speak to the people of Israel and Jews all over. As we encounter anti-Semitism and hatred and great tragedy, there is growth in the darkness and in the trauma. Yeah, yes. And I would also add to this that what we can offer here is to deepen the list, not just broaden it, but deepen the list, is adding God into the picture. And what's the problem here? The problem here is that people feel like God has betrayed them. Where was God in the Holocaust? Where was God on the 7th of October? Where is God? How could God create such horrible things? And I think that's quite a mistaken theology. I don't usually use these terms, mistaken and correct, but I think there's a real human error in the theology of how God's responsible for the Holocaust or for the 7th of October. And I'll try and explain it. It's related to what I said earlier, but it's deeply related to what you just read now. We talked about this past Shabbat in our Torah study. We talked about how matter is simply, as I said earlier, simply matter. God created it, but God created a vessel. God didn't create the Holocaust. God didn't create the 7th of October. God created human beings. God created everything. But in this creation, it's basically a vessel for light. And all the things, it'll be interesting to see, if we switched all the words that the psychologist said, what you just quoted, if we switch it to a relationship with God, then we suddenly realize that all these calamities, all these very difficult things are... Now, it's hard to say. I'm going to say it quietly, because not everyone will be willing to accept such a theology. But they are really a blessing in disguise. Now, how? I'm sorry. How can I possibly talk about the victims who were so brutally, brutally murdered, and those who were kidnapped? This is so brutal and awful. It's impossible to say here, blessing in disguise. So, I'm saying here, this is a theological statement. It's not a psychological statement, because psychologically speaking, I'm devastated. I'm appalled. I'm sick to the stomach with the evidence that I read. Yet, there's a part of me that realizes there's a difference between our psychology, which is so much about pain, and a difference between that and theology, where we can see that, just as Viktor Frankl, who we both have a lot of respect for, Viktor Frankl, a non-religious Jew in Auschwitz, who discovered the meaning of life, and he could only discover it in Auschwitz, in the darkest place at the time. Auschwitz becomes a vessel for him to bring in so much light, and so many people, both at the camp, and then those who benefited from his psychology years later, were nurtured by the light that this vessel, i.e. Auschwitz, was able to bring to the world. When things are so wonderful and good, and we want them to be wonderful and good, don't get me wrong, but when things are all wonderful and good, then the vessel, life, matter, cannot draw in light. So, praying, I have to admit that, for me, praying is such a joy, and coming to synagogue and praying, or not at synagogue, it doesn't really matter, praising God is the way that we draw more and more of light, goodness, into the vessel, the vessel being the darkness, the matter, which, as we know, can be pretty cruel. And let me add to that, Elisha, from my own point of view, and I'm trying to work my way through this dark thicket of bad thoughts. Our relationship with God, in my theology, I think the right theology, if there is such a thing, is definitely, definitely not transactional. I do something for you, God, and you do something for me, and we have a deal. And I'm afraid that an awful lot of religious practice is related to that, linking our actions and our mitzvot with good things that we expect to get from God, and that is not the way it works. Our relationship with God is not transactional, it's unconditional, and you know what? It's very much like the relationship of our little dog, Pixie, who gives you unconditional love, no matter what happens. Unconditional. And I believe we have unconditional love from our God, and in return we are expected to give unconditional love, and bad things happen. Elisha, on TV, I just saw a few hours ago, a religious young woman who lost her husband in the fighting in Gaza as a soldier, and they were married for a very short time. And she gave thanks for their beautiful life that they had together. And I'm looking at this and I'm amazed. This woman of faith giving thanks for the worst possible thing that could happen to a young woman losing her husband. This is unconditional love, and unconditional faith, and it's the hardest thing to cultivate, but it's a powerful anchor, Elisha. Yeah, yeah. It's really, that's a beautiful example, and very, very moving. And I have to say, you know, because of the times right now, we're reading and hearing so many such stories. And it's so important now at this point to see how this woman is an example. She doesn't ask God, like, why did you do this to me? But rather, life is life, and things happen. Bad things happen. Good things happen. In the grand scheme of things, these are all neutral things. We're all, you know, I don't think I'm saying anything new here. We are all going to die one day. And the question is, in the 80 years that we lived, in the 120 years that we lived, in the 90 years that we lived, or in the 30 years that we lived, how much light, how much blessing, how much light are we able to draw in and share? It was very beautiful what you just said. It's this unconditional love of God towards us, towards creation. And it's our responsibility. We will get to experience God when we can imitate God. You know, we're in God's image. So if we can imitate God by loving, by spreading love, and being of service, being of service to other human beings. And then we'll see that the conditions in which we live, the circumstances of life, the lovely and the cruel and the horrible, are all, they're nothing but vessels for drawing in more and more blessings and passing them on. Absolutely. I want to explain about what I said in making a mistake in becoming an economist. And I think it's relevant. Economists believe in the power of competition and free competition and capitalism and accumulating wealth and income and power. And that's the secret of happiness. And we find it in shopping centers. And that's totally, absolutely false and wrong. And it's misleading. And I think it caused a great deal of damage. And in our comparison with other people, I think we do ourselves great damage. A small story about that. So there's research by psychologists on Olympic athletes who win medals in the Olympics. There are three medals, gold, silver, and bronze. The athletes who won gold, they're delighted, they're happy, they're ecstatic. The athletes who win silver, they're less happy than the ones who came third and got bronze. Wow. How? How in the world is that the case? The ones who got silver compare themselves to the gold medal winner. And they say, if I'd just run two seconds faster and jumped 10 centimeters higher, I could have won gold. And they're unhappy. The ones who got bronze say, well, if I had run two seconds slower, I wouldn't have a medal. Nobody would remember me ever at all. It's all about comparison. Theodore Roosevelt, who was a Republican president of the US, once said that comparisons are the enemy of happiness. And that's absolutely true. And we must stop comparing our fate and ourselves and our nation with others and accept unconditionally the darkness and the light in the world because it's part of life. Yeah, yeah. Yes, I agree 100%. Comparison is toxic. It's really toxic. One of the reasons I think so many people... I hate Facebook. I hope Mark Zuckerberg is not listening to this podcast. Maybe, maybe. Maybe he should. But it's been proven already that people who consume Facebook tend to get... I don't know if depressed or not. I don't have the research. I'm sorry, the research in front of me. But we keep on seeing these happy faces and people who did this and people who did that. And by comparison, our life sucks in comparison with those that we read about in our Facebook feeds. So, comparison is really problematic. And in this parasha, it's all about comparison. There's Esav and there's Yaakov, Esav and Jacob. And Yaakov is constantly living in comparison mode. So is Esav. They're both. And it brings so much misery to the story. And then later, Rachel and Leah, the two sisters, the two wives of Yaakov, they're also comparing themselves all the time. And that brings so much misery to the world. And it's really difficult to avoid it because when we ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, our eyes were opened. Once our eyes were opened, we started comparing. And the first feeling that came to human beings after their eyes were opened, and I think that's true, it's not just a mythological truth, it's a psychological truth for everyone and one of us when our eyes are opened in the sense that we recognize who we are in the world and we can start comparing ourselves, that's when shame is brought into the world. The first feeling is the feeling of shame. Adam and Eve feel shame and they cover themselves. And since then, we've been covering ourselves because we are so ashamed of who we truly are and it's all stemming from comparison. Absolutely. Getting back to this issue of the trauma that we've all suffered, and how is it that so many people emerge from trauma without post-trauma and instead experience growth? And we go back to the wonderful Rabbi Sachs and looked up his droshot, we studied his droshah in our study class in Hafta and he writes something very wise which happens to be accurate psychologically. In order to move forward after trauma and tragedy, we first have to build a future and only then can we access the memories of the past. Trauma is dwelling on memories of the past. I wonder, Alicia, even though I've done army service and my army service was not as a commando, it was in artillery, but I had some close calls and I have flashbacks and I still remember some of them. And that happened 50 years ago. I don't know if you've had this, but we all have these memories and trauma is when they recur and recur and recur and we can't control them. But if you have a future, if you have hope for the future, this is crucial for people to overcome trauma of any kind, having hope for the future. And right now, this is definitely what we need here in Israel. I'm part of a team, a very small part, and we're working with Minhelet Kuma, the Reconstruction Administration, to rebuild the settlements in the Western Negev and to build them back better. So we're talking about the area of, just for the listeners, the area surrounding Gaza. They're in the Western part of Israel on the border of Gaza, the ones that were hit on October 7th. Yes, and words matter because we used to call them bordering Gaza, those settlements. We don't say that anymore. We say they're Western Negev, which is an important consideration. But the whole idea is to restore hope among the people from that area, but concrete hope based on actuation. Validation and actuation. This will help us overcome the trauma. Yes, and it's quite amazing that a community like Be'eri, for example, who's lost 100 people, and now I'm a kibbutznik originally, so to lose 100 people from your community, it's just unbelievable. Not to mention that your kibbutz was burned down and destroyed and that there are people who were taken hostage and were not accounted for yet. And there are people who were not taken hostage but are not accounted for because they were literally, physically annihilated by the terrorists. And for them to sit in, they're in exile, they're in a hotel somewhere, and they're sitting there and planning their future. And they're organized, Alicia. The kibbutznikim are organized. They have a desk and they organize because that's what they're used to doing. And because it's a community. Yes. And that's another huge value of a community. And they have all the reasons to be in total despair. And no one would judge them for being in despair. But they are sitting there and planning their future. And we do have to recognize that they will at some point, as they're planning their future, and when they eventually do get back, they're going to rebuild the kibbutz and go back, there's going to be a lot of pain to deal with, a lot of pain. But when you realize that your life circumstances are a vessel for a blessing, then you can deal with any trauma. Absolutely. And we discussed continuity last week, and we return to that again this week in the genealogy. Genealogy looks back to our line of descent from Adam, but we also look forward. And there will be future generations, and we will rebuild a future for them and give them hope. This is about our children. This is about giving hope and a future for our children. And maintaining the continuity. Yes, yes, yes. So, how are we with time? We basically have to end. Okay, okay. So, time flies when you're having fun. Time flies when you're talking about blessings. And time flies when you're discussing light. So, in these really dark times, I want to wish us all, first of all, Chodesh Tov, and a happy birthday to you, Shlomo. And also, this is my parasha, my own parasha that I was born on. So, I want to wish us all to be able to really recognize that our life circumstances and all the traumas we've experienced were what they really were. They were vessels in order to bring more light and blessing into the world and share it. And may this bring comfort and strength to all those who need it. And we have the choice, Alisha. We have the choice to activate and act on the trauma we've experienced. And it can be despair, hopefully not, or it can be action and hope and a blessing. Choose the blessing. Amen, amen. Thank you all for listening. Thank you. Leitolat.
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