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Prof. Shlomo Maital and R. Elisha Wolfin discuss Parashat Ki Tavo. Blessings and curses, birth and death, exile and return.
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Prof. Shlomo Maital and R. Elisha Wolfin discuss Parashat Ki Tavo. Blessings and curses, birth and death, exile and return.
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Prof. Shlomo Maital and R. Elisha Wolfin discuss Parashat Ki Tavo. Blessings and curses, birth and death, exile and return.
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In this conversation, Shlomo and Elisha discuss the Parashat Ki Tavo from the book of Deuteronomy. They talk about the difficult and scary parts of the Parashah, which describe the consequences of not living a life according to Torah. They discuss the importance of finding a balance between the inner and outer self, and the need for self-reflection and inner work. They also touch on the limitations of science, technology, the market economy, and liberal democracy in providing answers to life's questions. They emphasize the significance of returning to one's inner self and the challenges of doing so in the modern world. They briefly mention the role of religion and the danger of using it as an escape from oneself. They also mention the blessings and curses in life and the idea that death can be seen as a blessing. Shalom Shlomo. Shalom Elisha. And welcome back to everyone. I hope you're all doing okay. We're towards the end of August and we have an amazing, amazing Parashah. A really lovely one. And a difficult one Elisha. And a difficult one. And we're going to look at some of the really hard parts of it. Okay. Of Ki Tavo. Okay, so right. So it's Parashat Ki Tavo. Reminder we're in the book of Deuteronomy. There is a whole part of the Parashah which is also mentioned in the Haggadah. In the Passover Haggadah. So some of it may sound familiar. So Shlomo, what did you cook for us today? Well, I'd like to begin by quoting the opening of your Drosha which is especially lovely. Parashat Ki Tavo is wonderful. It is full of pearls of wisdom and tips for a life worth living. Although the messages of the Torah are encoded and require explanation. And I guess that's why we're here, all of us. That's why we study Torah. We try to decode the encoded, encrypted messages and sometimes it's easier than others. And today we have some really, really tough ones. Let me begin by the tough one Elisha. So Ki Tavo that we talked about last week had some really horrendous, scary, hair-raising arur, curses. And Ki Tavo has gone even one further. And it's a description of what will happen to us if we don't live lives of Torah. For example, we will be enslaved, exiled from our land, sent to the marketplace in Egypt and we will be so sorry looking, we will be so bedraggled that nobody will want to buy us. That's part of the description. And guess what Elisha? It did happen because our temple was destroyed and we were scattered to the winds and enslaved. What is going on Elisha? Why does the Torah find it so necessary to have these hair-raising scenarios about what are the bad things that might happen to us? Yeah, yeah. The wonderful question of why do... all kinds of things happen to people, whether they're good or they're bad. Well, first of all, the first answer as always is I don't really know. I don't really know. I'm just guessing like we're all trying to guess and trying to make sense of life and trying to decode the Torah to the best of my ability and none of us is smarter than anybody else. So what I usually take from that is it's a beautiful description, especially now in the month of Elul, which is the month of reckoning, the month of Shuvah, Cheshbon Nefesh, of returning. And there's always the question of returning to what? Returning to where? And exile, which is what you're referring to, exile slash slavery, exile is the ultimate opposite of return. Exile is the furthest away we can go from ourselves, from home, from the inner home. And the parasha I think is saying very simply, saying if you are going to spend your life obsessed with the outer, the outer life, status, money, the outer joys of the outer life, then fine, that's fine. But you're getting further and further and further away from your inner, from your inner home. We all do it. The whole story of the expulsion from the Garden of Eden, this is the story where we were curious and we ate in the tree of knowledge and the curiousness, the curiosity kind of took us away from bliss. But who wants bliss all the time? Bliss is such a boring place to be. We're curious. When someone's curious, they go out and when people go out, they get hurt. They explore things. Good things happen and also bad things happen. But there's always that tension. Yes, indeed, go out, explore, because that's how growth happens. But always be careful to keep that balance between the outer and the inner. And what you just described is when we go so far out that we just find ourselves, metaphorically speaking, in slavery. We're enslaved to the outer and we look so pathetic and horrible that at some point even the outer doesn't want us anymore. Go back home. Go back to yourself. Yes, and you have a lovely part of your Darsha, Elisha, with a heading. And the heading is Avodat HaLev, the service of the heart, inner working, working on our inner self. And we're often so busy, we just don't do that. You mentioned that inner self we need to work on. Parenthetically, Elisha, I hope you would do this more often in your Darsha. Tell us about this Avodat HaLev. How do we do it? Because we really don't do it enough. And I think Rabbi Sachs hits the nail on the head, as always, in his wonderful Parshat, interpretations of the Parshat. So, he tells us that every human being at some point has to ask three questions. Who am I? Why am I here? And how then shall I live? And I think this is the role of Torah. Torah helps us find answers, but they're not that easy answers. They require Avodat HaLev really looking inside ourselves. And we're so busy, we very often don't do that. And I think he explains why this process is so difficult in the modern world, and why more and more people are returning to religion. And the reason is as follows. He says that there are four great institutions in the West. Science, technology, the market economy, and liberal democracy. Four. Okay, science tells us how. It doesn't tell us why. Technology gives us power. Artificial intelligence. It doesn't tell us how to use it ethically and wisely. The market gives us choices. Try to buy a box of cereal sometime and you have 20 meters of crunchies and super dupers and cornflakes. Doesn't tell us which choice to make. Liberal democracy. You want to live this way? Go for it. You're all entitled to live and say whatever you want in the liberal democracy. These four great institutions they all offer us a wide range of choices. Okay, so what do we choose? The Torah tells us, Well, wait a second, what does that mean? And this takes some real deep exploration and Titovo is there to help us a bit. Right, just for those whose Hebrew is not perfect yet and you should choose life so if you need to choose, choose life. But then as you're pointing out what does that mean? And I have to say that you know, religion, I'm a religious person and I advocate religion nevertheless, religion can also be another outer realm just like the marketplace. People often go to religion to escape from who they truly are they escape to someone giving them black and white answers and that's another form of exile, being exiled from yourself. So, the Torah could be in the service of God forbid, of yet another expulsion and I think when we look at some really far right wing ideologies in Israel which are religious and also outside of Israel which are religious they are so outer. They talk about they talk about hatred of the other there's so much hatred there of the other which is a total outer consciousness it's not inner. Anyone who's connected deeply, deeply to their inner world cannot possibly hate another person personally, not another person who's different from them by religion, race or gender. So, to be so hateful, you have to be very much outside of yourself i.e. in exile and destruction is around the corner. So, religion too is not necessarily the answer. So, what could be what would be the answer? I wish there was a formula but the formula is always by design something which is external which is outer. So, the Avodah Sheba Lev, the inner work I think is indeed the art of returning. How do you return? When you ask, who am I? Rabbi Sacks is asking, who am I? How do I even start to answer that question? Who am I? Well, I'm a man I'm Israeli, I'm Jewish, I'm a Rabbi I'm a husband I'm a father Are they truly who I am? Do they answer the question, who am I? Some may say, yes, you have many different identities and work from those identities and I would argue that that's not indeed the case when before we were born, before I was born I was not a man and I was not a Rabbi and I was not married and I was not a father I was a spiritual being So, what exactly is it that we're returning to? And we say come back, come back, return return to ourselves to our inner selves. What is it that we're returning to? And how do we do it? Now, every person will find their own practice, I guess but if it doesn't include something deeply reflective something meditative, something that quiets the external and brings us back closer to ourselves whether it's mindfulness or other forms of meditation I practice a certain type of meditation we really need to cultivate that, otherwise it's so easy to ask the right questions and they won't bring fruitful answers Perhaps a little later I'll raise this issue of blessings and curses and how it's hard to tell between them sometimes and COVID for example, which unfortunately millions of people died worldwide, many died in Israel and COVID for many was a blessing because it gave us an enforced opportunity to do Avodah Talev at home, rediscover our kids rediscover our wives, our families and look into ourselves and it led to the Great Resignation, at least so many people quit their jobs because they realized they were not finding meaning they wouldn't have done it otherwise if it hadn't been for this terrible plague I want to quote the opening of your wonderful Dresha and you quote a blessing and it's a beautiful one the Parsha says blessed are you in your coming Baruch Ata B'vocha and blessed are you in your leaving and it's singular it's directed to every one of us we are blessed when we're born and we're blessed when we die and you quote Rabbi Brechia's explanation which is that when we come into life we are blessed and when we leave life we are also blessed but what does that mean when we leave life we are blessed is that really the case that our death is also a blessing by the way I looked up Rabbi Brechia he is a story teller he is a great expert of the Midrash among our sages but only once or twice appears in the Talmud because his stories I guess they weren't treated very seriously but he is very serious in this issue that it is a B'vocha when you leave this world and I agree with that as an 80 year old Elisha but so many people are fearful and won't even think about it how do you relate to this issue of and you're a spiritual counselor I think you must deal with this very often the blessing of leaving this world yeah yeah yeah death and dying is one of my I don't want to sound too gloomy but death and dying is certainly something that fascinates me I have to say this topic really does fascinate me and if we put aside the suffering involved with leaving this world so often death involves suffering which also needs to be addressed at some point death in itself as far as I'm concerned in my school of thought, in my thinking in my belief, death is it's a blessing, we're going back it's the ultimate, ultimate going back we're going back to where we came from who were we where were we and who were we before we were born now if one believes that we're just a bunch of chemical processes that's really all we are then this whole conversation is going to be irrelevant and if that's what you believe then just stop the podcast here and find something more interesting if you do believe that there is something more than just a chemical process that make up who we are and that there is a spirit that we did come from something and somewhere then basically we're simply going back and we're going back home and I can't think of anything more exciting than going back home where is it sad, and I think death is sad, I think death is sad for the people who are left behind and our loved ones who depended on us and are going to miss us and they loved us and they're not going to see us again maybe when they move on we'll reunite I personally do believe in that but putting that aside we're essentially going back to where we came from and there's a great midrash we often study here in different contexts, the midrash of the spirit that God, we studied it this year in our big midrash we learned about, this year we studied about heaven and the afterlife etc. and it's a beautiful midrash where a couple is about to conceive and God calls this particular spirit and said hey it's your time to go back again, to enter this embryo this fetus and the spirit says no, no, no, I'm so happy here where I am, please don't send me back there and God said these are all quotes from scripture, says you know you don't get to choose that you don't get to choose get in there and while in the womb there's an angel that gives a whole tour of the entire lifetime that's ahead and he knows exactly what's going to happen except for one thing, is that person going to be a good person or a bad person that's freedom of choice finally the time comes to be born and the angel says yalla, it's time to go out into the world and once again the spirit says no, no, no, it's wonderful here, I love this womb, please please don't let me please don't send me out of this cruel world and the angel on behalf of God says, remind them there are some things you don't get to choose, just go finally, 120 years later, the angel reappears and says do you remember me, do you recognize me it's time to go back home and I would expect the spirit to say finally, finally, well worry I've missed you, 120 years have passed I almost forgot what you looked like but no, the spirit says no, no, no, please I just want to stay here please don't send me back but it's, you know, and once again the angel says that you don't get to choose and we keep on resisting taking our next move, our next growth and if we're essentially going back home to the bliss where we came from if that's what you believe, and I do believe that then why fear death? I understand fearing pain and fearing illness, I understand that fearing leaving people who need us, leaving them behind I understand that but death itself what a blessing yes, absolutely so Elisha, that leads me into a little book that I found on our shelf the book is called 101 Experiments in the Philosophy of Everyday Life it's by an author named Roger Paul D.R.O.I.T and these are 101 practical experiments for avodah shel halev inner working and number 20, number 20 is imagine your imminent death it's something I think many people are terrified of doing but he suggests that we do it but I think goes off on the wrong track he says we cannot imagine ourselves dead I disagree, I certainly can't thinking about it can only ever be an activity for the living he tells us that you'll find these ideas upsetting and it's basically a negative experience that he describes, although the exercise itself is very positive what about this do we, should we can we contemplate our own death, is this morbid is it constructive yeah so first of all I guess it's very personal the fact is that for him it was not such a great experience I actually do that quite a lot and I even I used to do that with people, I guide people through this process and I would I want to say two things about it, the positive and the negative the positive is that yes, we can really get a sense of this freedom and experience, the bliss that may come along with that and it may also give us some perspective on life it may help us kind of consider wait, what do I still need to do before I do leave, who do I want to talk to who do I want to apologize to who do I want to thank what unfinished business do I have I want to say that it is one blessing in having a terminal illness, which is horrible I wouldn't wish it on anybody but the one blessing that there isn't terminal illness, is that you know you're going to die and you can really say your goodbyes and really close all the things that need closure. Someone who dies blissfully in the middle of the night which is a great blessing especially if they're 120 nevertheless they have no chance of saying their last goodbyes and saying how much they loved whoever they wanted to say that to or apologize for things that they've said so in this sense, it's a great exercise, I love that exercise It is Leisha, and I mention on a very practical manner the chairperson of our Keilah is a lawyer and a very wise one and she's given us good advice. My wife and I we're healthy, but on legal advice, we have prepared something called an Enduring Power of Attorney and the Enduring Power of Attorney wraps up all the loose ends and when you die there are many loose ends wraps it all up and lifts the burden of making all of these choices from your kids and your successors and puts it down in writing very clearly and in a legal manner It's a very inspiring process to think about all these things and very very comforting so our kids, we have four kids Sharon and I and in mid-September just before Rosh Hashanah, we'll have a Zoom session to discuss all of this. We've kind of divided up different things among our daughter who's a doctor and our youngest son who's a great business person and entrepreneur divided up different responsibilities Contemplating your death in a practical manner and tying the loose ends is a very useful thing to do and very, very comforting not at all cause of apprehension or morbid Yes, yes, yes, absolutely right, and the one thing though that I did want to warn, the negative side, which I think is important to stress people sometimes use it in a manipulative way saying you know, if someone does something or thinks a certain thought going up to them and saying you know, if you were on your deathbed right now is that what you would have wanted to say? It's not a fair approach because thank God we're not on our deathbed and when we are living our life, we're making all kinds of choices and our death cannot be a perpetual litmus test for how to act. It's once in a while, it's really good practice and finally, one last thought I love to also imagine my spirit kind of like being very light and meeting all my loved ones all those who've passed and meeting people in my imagination obviously and seeing all kinds of tips they have for me and all kinds of it's a really fun, fun practice I'm not so sure you have to believe in the afterlife in order to practice this, I don't know, I happen to believe in the afterlife so it's easier so yes, so yeah dying can certainly be a blessing. I've told this before but maybe it's worth mentioning my mother passed away at the age of 105 my mother was fearful of a great many things she was fearful of her death but like many women do Alicia, women are really good at this despite their fears they do it anyway she marched herself into Benjamin Funeral Home paid for her funeral and wrote a long list of all the things that she wanted to happen on her death she put this into an envelope and left the envelope on her dresser so that when I came after she passed away and found this envelope everything was, all the loose ends were tied up and she had done this despite all of her fears being fearful the only thing I didn't arrange was a police escort for the funeral you have to be prime minister for that and she wasn't but everything else we did down to the last detail absolutely Alicia, maybe we can discuss something else in the Parsha and related to Rosh Hashanah as we move toward Rosh Hashanah we think about Tshuva as you know Rabbi Berchia interpreted Baruch Hata B'Tseidcha you are blessed when you leave this earth as related to Tshuva that we finally do Tshuva including many people literally on their death beds but we begin to think really seriously about prayer as we move into some serious serious times for prayer and there is an issue that has bothered me a lot regarding prayer first of all there is Filah B'Tseibu and we are going to engage in beautiful meaningful prayer in public we do it in the park, another blessing of COVID by the way we discovered we had to do it in the park because of the pandemic and now for Rosh Hashanah we do that as a regular practice under this beautiful ficus tree and it is the most amazing spiritual experience and of course Tfilah with all our congregation and our community it is a great experience but I am mindful of a statement by the Rabbis Tfilah Tichid Ena Tfilah if you pray by yourself it is not really a Tfilah that can't, surely that can't be true, can you only pray in the public with other people with the minyan yeah I am sorry as someone who loves davening on my own as well as in public I do tend to disagree with that statement but I also remind us that Rabbis make statements in context, in a certain context and very often when it is taken out of context it may sound very black and white only if you have a minyan are the prayers accepted if not in the minyan then they are not and the Rabbis also say it has to be a Tfilah with a deep intention so if you are on your own but you have a deep intention then the prayer is accepted so I think you know they probably said in a certain context because it is so difficult to pray with a lot of deep meaning in a minyan because in a minyan you mumble the prayers but there are always some other things, you chat with someone, you are annoyed with the noise someone is making, the kids around are making you don't like the the canter so it is really hard to pray this way, so I think the Rabbis are coming to say don't don't exclude yourself from the congregation, from the community there is a lot of power in communal prayer, in addition if we think about it when a group of people pray together that prayer has so much more power, all those who go to demonstrations in the last 34 and a half weeks in Israel, I think are experiencing a great sense of power they come out of isolation and they join like minded people and it is almost like a prayer source, as Heshel when he was marching and Selma was saying my feet are praying so that is what praying together really does, but I don't think it excludes individual prayer perhaps we can close with a little discussion about the following topic so we have a beautiful blessing in Pashat Kitavo blessed are you when you come in blessed are you when you go out and we also have some really awful curses opposite of blessing I'm thinking that in my life it sometimes was really hard to distinguish between a blessing and a curse a small personal example 20 years ago I had prostate cancer it was operated on successfully, I'm clean, thank God it didn't seem like a blessing at the time it really didn't but it made me sit down and think about hey, I'm not going to be on this earth forever, am I wasting my time here I took early retirement, went on to do a lot of things that I would not have done had it not been for this cancer so very often in life, let's remember something terrible has happened maybe it's telling us something maybe there's a message here maybe hidden in this awful thing is some sort of blessing we just have to find it and we have a choice we have a choice and sometimes it takes really hard work to find that blessing but there are so many blessings that in my life have been hidden in what seems like the opposite yeah, yeah, yeah that's so beautiful Shlomo that's so beautiful there's a beautiful statement there's nothing I'm translating it loosely from Hebrew anything which is blessed is hidden the blessed is hidden life today life is so easy we have washing machines we have diapers we have modern medicine life only 200 years ago 150 years ago, 100 years ago was so hard life was one long painful challenge people until not too long ago lived to the age of 30, 32, 33 and those 32, 33 years were filled with fear and issues so life in itself life sucks life used to suck and yet what we're saying here is that there's a blessing a blessing in disguise what is that blessing and because we live in such a comfortable life today we think of all the hardships oh there are the curses all the lovely moments no, no, no the hardships a blessing is not dependent on hardship or on the good times it's always a blessing life is a blessing but it's always concealed, it's always hidden and what is that blessing the blessing is choose life life itself and that's something we have to remember and remind ourselves over and over again the experience of life even your very last breath life itself is a blessing a blessing of what, if we had more time we could go deeper into it, maybe another time but we're not talking about a blessing of of having a fun, fun time that's not the blessing that we're after absolutely not perhaps we can suggest you and I, let's work on this as part of the the inner working on ourselves, on our hearts on our innermost thoughts work on finding the hidden blessings sometimes they're really hidden it's amazing, Alicia how many blessings there are including this morning when I'm doing the dishes and a little bit grumpy early in the morning and finding that this is a beautiful quiet time for some thinking and contemplation let's work this week on finding the hidden concealed blessings absolutely, and I'm totally with you and I can just say that washing dishes at 12 o'clock at night which I did last night there's a blessing there as well and it doesn't mean don't have fun have fun as well, that's wonderful it's not about suffering so, I know we do have to end so we wish everyone a week of blessings and just know know that life is a blessing and go out and find those blessings life itself is the greatest blessing we must enjoy and appreciate it Shabbat Shalom Shabbat Shalom Thank you Shlomo
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