Athletes

Three students at Penn discuss the intersection of religion and sports in their lives. Davis talks about his experience as a Southern Baptist and how being at Penn has allowed him more freedom in his faith. Sohaila discusses being Muslim and the challenges of practicing her religion in the US. Both Davis and Sohaila have found supportive religious communities at Penn. They also talk about how their religious beliefs have influenced their athletic journeys and provided them with perspective and peace during challenging moments. They address the conflicts and time management challenges that can arise when balancing athletic commitments and religious practices. Overall, their experiences highlight the importance of faith in their lives and how it has shaped their identities as student-athletes. All right, hi, my name is Elon Ross, I'm a senior here at Penn, and today we're joined by Davis Green and Sohaila Ismail, and we're going to start with some introductions. So, Davis, you're going to start us off, where are you from, who are you, what are you going to do? Yeah, for sure. Obviously, I'm Davis Green, I'm from Nashville, Tennessee, and I'm a sophomore, but I'll actually graduate a year early, so I'm kind of like a junior in a way. I played football last year. What position did you play? Defense and tackle. Defense and tackle? Yeah. Totally. Sohaila? Hi, I'm Sohaila Ismail, I'm from Egypt. I'm also a student-athlete, and I play squash. I'm a sophomore. Love to hear it. All right, so I guess the main core of what we're trying to get into is kind of talking about how religion and sports and being a student-athlete at Penn kind of all tie in together. So, again, here, we'll start with Davis. Yeah, I grew up Southern Baptist, which is Christian, and I'm from Nashville, and so the Southern Baptist is super popular there, but I'd say up here it's more non-denominational, and so my church now is non-denominational, which is kind of similar. I couldn't really name a difference, to be honest, in practice, but that's how it's changed, I guess, a little bit. It's been a little bit more free, and, you know, being here, I can make my own decisions back home. I was kind of, like, forced to go to church sometimes and go through certain programs and processes, and so being here, I can choose where I want to go, when I want to go to church, you know, what kind of church I want to go to. I could back home, too, but I guess I feel more, less disrespectful, you know, being free. I do want to make my own decisions. So, yeah. Have you found a nice community here? Yeah. When I was a freshman last year, I tried a few churches. I think on my second one, I was looking with a group of freshmen as well for churches, and I found a church, actually, with a lot of people from the South, a pastor from North Carolina, which was kind of cool, because it was, like, a pretty immediate family, and, you know, they all had their Southern accents, which is kind of a cool thing to connect on, yeah. That's fun. So, yeah. I am a Muslim. I grew up Muslim my entire life, and then when I came here, I had known how to manage my religious life in the U.S., since I also went to high school here in the U.S., so, yeah, I've been here for a long time now, but I'd say, at first, managing that wasn't hard. It was just very different. There were no, like, cultural reminders of, like, you wouldn't walk around and see a mosque, or you wouldn't walk around and see, like, most people dressing up the same way you do, or going to pray at the same time you do, or doing something similar to yours, so I think the main difference was that you had to be very proactive in the things you do, and if you wanted to, I guess, connect with your faith or your religion, you had to be, like, very proactive in the decisions you make. You mentioned you went to high school in the States as well. Were you able to find a nice religious community there? I'd say it's actually a lot nicer here, just because maybe it's a bigger school. There's a lot of Egyptian squash players that I've known from back home, so it's actually easier at Penn than it was at my high school. That's so nice to hear. Is squash a big thing in Egypt? It is, yeah, or, well, it is a niche sport, so, like, not everyone plays it, but, like, the people that play it somehow become very, very good, so it seems like everyone plays it, but that's not really true. It's just that they're just very good at it. And they all want to come to Philly to play, I guess. Exactly. Okay, so now that we're at Penn, let's take a step back to kind of growing up. What was God's role in your athletic journey to start with? Well, I believe in, like, destiny, and, like, you're destined to certain things in life that, like, they're going to happen kind of regardless of what you do, but at the same time, that doesn't mean that you're just going to, like, sit around in your bed all day and expect things to happen. It's, like, you put in the work, right, but, like, if you're meant to lose this match, you're going to lose. If you're meant to win and you're not 100% prepared, you're meant to win kind of thing. So this has always been part of my athletic journey because it's very tough, but athletes sometimes define themselves, most times define themselves by basically if they win or lose, which is very, very tough, like, mentally, and it's very draining. So when you have that religious perspective and you have that idea of it wasn't meant to be today, like, if you've actually done everything, you've left it out on court or on the field, and it's just not meant to be, then, like, this is it. So, yeah. Wow. And so squash is a very individual sport, if I'm not mistaken. Do you play a lot of doubles or is it mostly singles? No, it's mostly singles. Mostly singles. Yeah. So on the flip side, Danis, as a team sport, how has that kind of played into your life? Yeah. I went to a private Christian high school, and so most dudes were at least, you know, called themselves Christians but weren't always, you know, living exactly by that or truly valued it too much, but it was a thing that we kind of bonded over. You know, we'd all pray before games and after games and hold each other accountable. And so I think it for sure united us, you know, on and off the field and probably did play into our performance on the field as well, you know, because we were more a team in a way, you know, trusting each other. Would God and Christianity come into play during the game at all? Yeah. I mean, some guys get a little more animated and, you know, talk a lot of smack and get pretty fired up, which is, you know, probably not a great look for a private Christian school, but some guys kind of took it upon themselves to be, you know, loving and kind and, you know, not have crazy amounts on the field, which I think was kind of a defining thing for us being, you know, Christians and followers of Christ. And I think that, you know, represented Christ well in a way. That's beautiful. Now, was there any specific moment in your athletic journey that religion really helped you with, that helped you manage some situation along those lines, David? Yeah. My senior year, I've been playing with some of the guys I was playing with for elementary school as well. So eight, nine, 10 years, so a long time. And we had a great season senior year. And on the final, semi-final game, we were down by like five points and had a chance to score. And our dude, like, ran. And we all thought he hit the pylon. All the parents thought he hit the pylon. And the ref called him short. And it was, like, this big, you know, blow-up moment. People were going crazy. And parents were, like, screaming and running on the field, like, what are you doing? And the ref had to, like, take off with, you know, police. But for us, me and my teammates, we found some security and some peace in our face. You know, like, it was okay. It's just a football game. We worked hard at it for a long time. But we grew in much more important ways than us football players, you know. And so I think it was good there. Nice to hear that. Yeah. Kyle? I'm not sure if I can name one specific moment. But almost as I explained earlier, I just feel like God or religion is part of the journey every step of the way. So, like, me coming to the U.S. in the first place was through my sport in which I was probably destined to play. I was, like, pushed into being good at it. I mean, luck was on my side a little bit, which is probably something by God as well. Totally. At the end of the day, I don't know one specific moment. When I usually experience a heartbreaking loss, I, like, pray and I thank God. It's like a thing. Like, when you're, like, deep down in the trenches, you just feel like I'm still very grateful. I'm still very thankful. Like, I'm heartbroken on a squash match, but I'm very grateful. I have a lot of things in life that I'm very grateful for. That's beautiful. We wrapped the whole thing up holistically. So, on to the next question. Have you encountered any conflicts between your athletic commitments and your religious practices? And if so, how have you managed them? David? Yeah. I think just on, like, a time management basis. I mean, it's kind of hard. Especially being a kid, it was pretty hard. Trying to balance playing football in practice from, you know, six in the morning or whatever and then school and then trying to have time to, you know, I wanted to pray and read my Bible and spend time with the Lord. And so, it was hard to balance all that. I think also being at Penn, my coaches were not all believers. And I think that changed from, you know, being at a private Christian high school to a, you know, not Christian university. Kind of probably highlighted that for me. But... Were your coaches in high school all religious as well? Yeah. Wow. They were all super strong believers. And so, coming here, you know, a lot of my coaches were definitely on the crazier side. And, you know, would talk about things in the film room. And, you know, I probably shouldn't go into it too much. But it was a big change for me. See, I don't know if that pulled me away. I think it actually pushed me, made me, you know, hone in more on my faith and my time with the Lord. Because, you know, I describe it as like, you know, I'm trying to swim upstream already against culture. And, you know, I feel like, you know, I'm called as a follower of Christ, so we're different in culture. And so being in a place where it feels like, you know, it's a harder push downstream in a way, I had to swim harder. And kind of like focus more on, you know, my prayer time and what I'm supposed to be doing. And reading my scriptures and stuff like that. And ultimately, as you mentioned, you stopped playing football. Yeah. After the first year. Do you mind talking about that a bit? Yeah. So that was more a result of the former, you know, reason I gave. But it's been difficult. I was struggling, I think, to manage the time well. And a lot of guys do it. You know, there are a lot of dudes who have very strong faiths and, you know, even play in the NFL. And, you know, play at bigger colleges than Penn with football and are always playing. Yeah, Super Bowl winners are going to Disney World and thanking God. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like even when I quit, I was talking to the coach and he said, you know, one of the guys who was on the Chiefs team and won last year, and I should know his name, Jay Watt, Jay Watt, he said, you know, I was calling the coach and I said, yeah, I think I'm done playing. You know, it's too much time, this and that. And he said, yeah, you know, Jay Watt did it best. He managed his faith and he, you know, academics in football and is now playing in the NFL, obviously. So the guys do it for me. This summer I was just home, you know, not doing school, but, you know, working out and having a lot more free time to be with Jesus and praying and reading. And, you know, I just, I loved it. I fell deeper in love with Christ. And I decided I wanted to spend more time with Him, you know, not feel like I have to go back to school and squeeze time with Him into this, like, 30-minute gap. I could actually, you know, spend time with Him in the mornings and throughout my day. And so I prayed about it and felt like the Lord was saying, you know, I want you to take this step. And so I did. That's beautiful. Thanks for sharing. Yeah, for sure. Silas. Can you repeat the question? Yeah, totally. So fair. So we're asking, have you encountered any conflicts with your athletic commitments and your religious beliefs and practices? And how have you managed them? I don't know if I would call it a conflict. I'm not sure what I would label it. But definitely, I'm a hijabi. Do you mind defining that for people? I should be covered, or I am covered, basically head to toe, except for, like, my face and my hands. So it is very hard to, and being a hijabi also comes with, like, certain rules. You shouldn't just be covered, but you should also not necessarily wear any, like, defining clothes that, like, define your body. Or, like, a lot of rules that I'm not aware of every single one of them, fortunately. But I kind of chose to get the best of both worlds and not be perfect at either one of them. So I did not give up squash because I'm a hijabi, but I'm also not the perfect hijabi by any means. To be able to perform, I still wear, like, leggings. I do wear, like, a skirt over the leggings because it makes me feel more comfortable. But at the end of the day, I shouldn't even be wearing a legging, if that makes sense. And this is, like, this is just the most orthodox way it should be. And I know that, and I know that I'm not doing it perfectly. But I think it is, I think I'm a work in progress, and I think that's where I'm at right now. Yeah, that's beautiful. I think it's safe to say that we all are, in terms of finding our belief. Have you seen hijabi squash players and how they've been able to do it? I've seen a couple of hijabi squash players. They're not a lot at all. Like, what, two, three? Wow. Yeah, four, maybe? Like, they're not a lot at all. And we all kind of wear the same thing. Also because, this is, we are, like, on the professional squash association, we're not allowed to not play with a skirt. So, like, at the end of the day, you, like, let's say, like, you only want to wear, like, leggings, or, like, bigger pants, you have to, like, wear a skirt on top of it. No matter what? Yeah. Wow. So it's the same with that as well. Exactly. Interesting. And on this idea of religious commitments and athletic commitments, right now while we're recording this, we just began Ramadan a few days ago, and I was wondering if you wanted to say a few words about having to practice, with nationals coming up as well. I know. It's, I mean, Ramadan is the best month of the year for myself and for a lot of Muslims, I know. It's just a really, I mean, it's the month where the Quran, the holy book, came down to a prophet. And then it's also the month that you fast for 30 days. It becomes, I mean, there's obviously the biggest aspect of it is religious, but then there's also a cultural aspect that we miss while at Penn. But with all the Egyptian squash players and just the Muslim community here, you get a little bit of that. You get some of it, which is really nice. But yeah, Ramadan is something that you do since you're a little kid. So you're used to it, and you wait for it from the year to the year. Every single time, you're like, oh my God, I can't believe it came this fast. And then once it ends, you're like, wow, that was quick. That was very quick. So yeah, it's definitely tough to practice fasting and to compete while fasting. And this will be my first time ever competing fasting. I've never done it before. I've trained while I'm fasting before, but I've never played a tournament. So it'll be interesting. We'll see. That's the bluff when that comes around. All righty. So now throughout growing up or even nowadays finding out Penn, have there been mentors, either coaches, trainers, people in your family, that have helped you navigate your religious and athletic journey kind of in unison, together, day in, day out? I think for me it was probably more teammates who were older, who valued their faith a lot, and I could watch them do it in front of me and just kind of follow them. That's beautiful. Any names that people you want to shout out in appreciation? Yeah, in high school there was a guy named Landon Wells that I felt like walked it out well. And I would say, I mean, I think, like I've had a lot of people who, like my grandfather, for one, has really, you know, he's a strong follower of Christ and has led me a lot in how to get into big issues. But I feel like football has always kind of fallen to the side a little bit, my faith, in that, like, it's important, and I think my faith shows through whenever I was playing football. But I wasn't always thinking, you know, what should I change about playing football, you know, because of my faith. And I started playing when I was like five, so it kind of just was always a part of me. It wasn't like a, you know, new thing I was walking into and how does my faith play a role in this. It was just, I've always been football. You know, I do the same thing. Yeah. Tyler? I haven't had someone that was kind of like a mentor or inspiration in both figures at once, like religion and my athletic journey. But I've had people like separately that, of course, my parents were always helping me out in terms of like my religion, my religious beliefs, like all of my questions growing up, all of that and how to navigate that with like sports or squash specifically. And then, I mean, just my normal coaches that helped me with squash. Like my current coach, who I've been working with for three, four years, is not even Muslim. Yeah, so like it's kind of hard to find someone that is very focused on both. Right? Yeah. So, yeah, I don't think I've had someone that has had both and has been a mentor for me. But, yeah, people that were just like separately mentoring me in both aspects. Now, it's interesting that you both mentioned at this point having coaches who aren't followers of Christ or who aren't Muslim. How have those relationships kind of played out, and even with teammates who don't share the same religious server that you do? I don't – I didn't think it affected me almost at all. Right. I mean, back home, I'd say like – I mean, I don't want to give a wrong percentage, but most people in Egypt are Muslim. It's mostly a Muslim country. So, yeah, I've met a lot of people that are Christians in Egypt. My coach is one of them. But it doesn't – like he knows when I'm passing, like he would take it a little bit easier at practice. Sometimes he'd pass with us because he wants us to – Yeah, because, I mean, it is, at the end of the day, part of like the culture and just like he'd do it to like, I don't know, like support us or something like that. And then with my teammates at Penn that are not Muslims, I don't think I've had issues with them. Like I know whether they follow their own religion or they just do their own thing, and then they know I also do my own thing, and I don't think it has, like, any conflict. We also don't practice for as many hours as, like, football. Right. So, like, yeah, it's a little bit different. That makes sense. David? Yeah. I mean, we do spend a lot of time over meals and a lot of private stuff and talking a lot. I wouldn't say I've had conflict over my faith, but I've had a lot of guys, you know, try and, like, poke at it and, you know, try and question why I believe, which I – you know, and also, like, I wouldn't say – I wouldn't go as far as to say mock me for it, but, you know, do it in a way that's trying to, you know, incite some kind of joke or whatever. Which, you know, as a Christian, you know, that in a way brings me joy because it means that I'm walking the dial the way that I should. You know, I'm standing out in a way. And it's, you know, it's an opportunity to share why I believe what I believe. And I think, you know, a lot of guys – I haven't seen any teammates, you know, fully profess, you know, I believe in Christ and will follow him because of you. But I've had a lot of guys who I've talked to a lot and have asked a lot of questions, and I like to believe that they've, you know, at least thought about it more. Beautiful. You know, in a way it's been changed. I'm not surprised, especially by the way that you talk about your beliefs. I appreciate that. Okay. Totally appreciate it. Good on you for that. And then when it comes to, like, sports in general, are there any pre- or post-game rituals? I know you mentioned in high school, Davis, that you guys would pray. So I know it's a little more individual when you have matches. Is there any bit of religion that gets you ready to play that when you're winding down afterwards, I know you mentioned earlier, after the game you might pray and be thankful for things. Any specific rituals that you guys want to mention? Yeah. You know, we'd all pray before, like, the field goal post, you know, in high school. And also there are some guys that tend to do that still before games. And for me, it's just like, you know, Lord, keep me safe. Keep the opponents I'm playing safe, my teammates safe. And also, like, I'm doing this for you. You know, the way I see it is we're all going to die at some point. It's going to get really deep really quickly. No, no. Go ahead. And, you know, the scriptures speak about how only the things that are done with Christ and out of love, hope, and faith are going to pass through fire in the end. And so, you know, you can go out and this is, you know, kind of a bad example. You can go out and make a billion dollars and do it for, you know, the wrong reasons, not unto Christ, for Christ. And it'd be, you know, you die and it's worth nothing. And so for me, I want to do everything I do to glorify him, you know, for him. And so I'm praying, Lord, you know, thank you for the opportunity. Keep us safe. Keep my opponents safe, my teammates safe. And I'm doing this for you. You know, I hope that I please you with the way that I care for myself and that I work hard. And so it's almost like a because I have to do this secular thing, Lord, let it be sacred for you. You know, if that makes sense. I noticed when you said the word, you have to do this secular thing. You know, that's the prayer that I pray more with school because I don't always love doing school. But get to is probably a better word. I appreciate that. I get to do this thing. But I will say, you know, there's nothing that I enjoy more than spending time with the Lord and praying and considering the structures. And so it feels like sometimes that it is like I have to do these things, you know. And I have to leave. And, you know, I long to be for eternity in heaven. And I believe that as a place that I'm going and I feel like I've had, you know, I say the word taste of it now. You know, I've had moments of, Lord, I feel your presence a lot. And I long to be with you forever, you know. I long to be with you in this place forever. But I must go out into the world. And so in a way it is like, yeah, I have to do these things. So be with me. But don't leave me whenever I'm doing these things that aren't necessarily, you know, alone in my room praying or in my scriptures. Totally. That's beautiful. Any rituals on your side? They're not just like game-specific rituals. They're everyday things that I do no matter if I have a game or not. But they don't really change. They don't really change no matter. Like if I have a game or not, I will still be waking up at like 5 a.m. to pray. And then I will, I don't even know what it's called in English. But like you say certain things like prayers but not the 5 a.m. kind of prayer. Like not an action. There's like words that you're saying similar to what Dave is saying. You can say the words in Arabic if you want. There are too many. Oh, wow. Okay. There are a lot. But like similar to things that Dave was saying, it's like it's a lot of gratitude. It's a lot of like I'm doing this. Like I'm also doing this like for you. Like it's a lot of like we're all. It's very similar to what Dave was explaining. It's like we're all not doing this because of like this like very big squash tournament. But at the end of the day, it's for heaven, you know. Totally. Totally. I guess it is beautiful to kind of see two different religious traditions saying similar things, especially when we're getting up into sports and when the emotions are high and everything. All right. So we're going to take a little break for a second. We'll be back in a minute.