Follow the Advice ep4 - Lucy Hodgson

Lucy Hodgson, the Director of Eastwood Insurance Brokers, shares her journey in the insurance industry. She followed in the footsteps of her father and grandfather, starting her career at her dad's business and later joining GRE. After a merger and the decision to sell the business, Lucy found her way to Eastwood and felt like she was coming home. Throughout her career, she received support and mentoring from her father, who encouraged her to gain experience outside of the family business. Despite the pressure to prove herself, Lucy's drive and ambition were fueled by her upbringing and the belief that she could achieve anything. She credits her success to the support and encouragement she received from her father. Hello and welcome to the Follow the Advice podcast. I'm David Brown. In this episode I'm delighted to welcome Lucy Hodgson, the Director of Eastwood Insurance Brokers in Huddersfield. Lucy decided to work in insurance when she was 8 years old and following the footsteps of her father and her grandfather. She worked for her dad's business during school holidays until the age of 18. And then she joined the old insurance company GRE when she left school in 1993 for her first proper job. She joined her dad's firm in 1997 and after a merger with another local company, she joined Eastwood and partnered in 2006, becoming a director and shareholder a few years later. Lucy celebrated 30 years in the industry last year. And during that time, her enthusiasm for insurance, her business, her staff and her clients has never waned. I hope you enjoy listening. Lucy, welcome. It's absolutely fantastic to have you here. Thanks so much for giving up some time to chat today. I'm not going to ask you how you got into insurance, because I know how you got into insurance, and insurance broking in particular, because it runs in the family. What I am interested in, though, is I'm wondering, because it did run in the family for you, what that meant in terms of support and encouragement and ideas and input for you as you've progressed through your career. I think my father has always actually been slightly bemused at my career choice. I think he's very pleased and very proud that I joined the insurance industry. And for whatever reason, from being very young, that's what I decided I wanted to do. I think it really started because I used to go into the office with my father when I was quite young and didn't really understand what he did. But I liked the idea of being in an office and all the people that were there and getting to know people. And I thought, well, I'd like to do this when I grow up. So I didn't really know what insurance was, but I knew I wanted to do what my dad did. But in terms of support, when I first thought about joining the insurance industry, I went to a girls' grammar school where it was always expected that you should pursue university education. And I just decided that wasn't for me. I was very clear about what I wanted to do. And my father and my mother really supported me in that decision and were quite happy for me to go and pursue my career at that age. I was 18 and my father told me who the main insurance companies were in Leeds, although by that point I'd been working through all my school holidays since I think I'd been about 10 years old. So I was quite familiar with the market. But he told me who I should write to in the market and inquire if they were taking on trainees. So they were smiling. Both my parents were really encouraging with that. And I got myself a job working for GRE, Gougeon Royal Exchange, who are now part of AXA. I think my father was encouraged that I wanted to get myself a job before joining him. I think if I'd said that I want to work for you, then he would have facilitated that. But I think he was quite relieved that I, I suppose, wanted to get some experience elsewhere before joining him. And I also understood the difference at that time between an underwriter and a broker. And I thought it would set me in good stead for my future career if I had some experience of underwriting and actually understand how a risk is viewed and how it's actually rated in terms of premium and what's taken into consideration when deciding how much to charge for something. So, yes, after four years, I went to join my father. And he was very much my mentor then for the next, I don't know, 13, 14 years. He used to take me all over the place, take me seeing clients. One piece of advice he gave me, which is actually nothing really to do with insurance at all, but whenever we went to see a client, he always used to say, right, we're going to come back a different way. We never used to come back the same way that we went to see a client. Because he always said, it's important that you know your way around the area that you live in. And you never quite know who you might see on your way back. You know, you might see a business that you think sounds quite interesting and you might approach them. Or he said, always be inquiring, never go back the same route that you went. So I always remembered that. I can't say I do that all the time these days. You read my mind. I was about to ask you if you did. No, I don't. I'm too busy. I mean, I'm sure my father was very busy, without having to mentor his very nosy inquiring daughter. But anyway, that was a really good piece of advice that he gave me. But then we decided to sell the business, which merged with another local firm of insurance brokers. And after a couple of years, my father made the decision that it was appropriate to sell to one of the consolidators. So that turned out to be Folgate, who then became part of Towergate a couple of years later. And at that point, my father retired. It was a good time for him to retire because by that point, he'd handed over most of his clients to me. I think he probably taught me everything that he could, and he was ready to take it easy. But after a couple of years of working for the new owners, it felt very, very different. And I'm not frightened of things being different. I think things change all the time. And I think that should be embraced. But it just didn't feel like my future home. And so I never really thought I'd ever do this because I never thought I'd be leaving my family business. But of course, it wasn't my family business anymore. I put my CV out into the market and went to see John Eastwood amongst other people. But when I went into Eastwood and met John, it actually felt like coming home. And my father didn't really give me any advice on who I should speak to. I think he realized by that point I was quite capable of making up my own mind. But as soon as I'd spoken to John Eastwood and I went to tell my father, And I remember he was just taking the dog for a walk and I pulled up outside the drive. And he was just coming out of the drive with the dog. And I just said, I've been to speak to John Eastwood and I think I'm going to leave. I'm going to leave and I'm going to go and join Eastwood. And he said, that's one of the best brokers you could possibly join. I'm really pleased. I have a lot of respect for John Eastwood. I think that's definitely the right decision. So I would say that was really the final piece of advice he gave me around my career. Because after that, he was getting further and further away from his time in insurance. And he could see that I was, I suppose, doing okay. But he continues to provide support to this day. You know, he's always cheering me on. I think he's probably my biggest fan, which is great. I'm a real daddy's girl. And, you know, it's lovely to still have his support even now. That's fantastic. I've got this vision of, you know, a little girl in an office, just like wide-eyed, you know, watching everything going on around you. It must have been fascinating at a young age to see that. It's something which, let's face it, most children don't do. You know, I've never taken my kids to work, right? And yet young people grow into adults and we expect them to slot seamlessly into any kind of work environment. So that's quite interesting. Tell me, so what's come across, Lucy, is you've had a lot of support. You used the word mentoring and advice, you know, from your dad, which is fabulous. I'm wondering, did that bring any extra pressure or weight of expectation in your mind to be successful? I don't think it did, really. I think I was always conscious, obviously, particularly when I worked in his business, obviously properly, not when I was a child, but when I was doing it properly, I did always have that feeling of pressure on myself that I had to be better than everybody else or work harder than everybody else because I didn't want people saying, oh, she's got this because of her dad or she's doing this because of her dad. And in fairness to the people I worked with, I don't think they ever thought that because I suppose they were used to me being there, all that shit. But I did have that sense of, yeah, I've got to make sure that I'm deserving of this in my own right, rather than just because my dad happens to be the boss. Yeah, that makes total sense. And, you know, I've known you for a few years and I've always admired how driven and ambitious you are. And, you know, that's come through in everything you've said so far today also. What's fuelled that drive and ambition over the years? I think part of it probably goes back to the school that I went to. It was an all girls school and we were always encouraged to aim as high as we wanted to aim, really. It never occurred to me that there would be any blocks in the road or any prejudice. It just never occurred to me that there was anything I couldn't do, really. But I think when I was in my teens, I was quite shy, would you believe. I did lack a lot of confidence. And then I had the opportunity when I was 16 to go to America for the summer. And my father is a member of Rotary, and I am now as well. But through Rotary they do something called Rotary Youth Exchange. And my father's Rotary Club was approached by Rotary Club in America to say this 15, 16 year old girl would like to come to England for the summer. And my father volunteered because he thought, well, if she comes here, Lucy can go back there the following year. And to me, that was the scariest thing I've ever done. I suffered dreadfully from homesickness when I was a child. It was debilitating, to be quite honest. I wouldn't even stay at friends' houses. So for me, the thought of going to America for a whole summer was my idea of a nightmare, which might sound incredibly spoiled because I appreciate now and obviously I appreciated then what a fantastic opportunity that was. But my homesickness was so debilitating that I was homesick for months before I even went. But of course I went, and I had the most fantastic time. And I still to this day credit that with making me the person that I am now. It made me realise that you can achieve anything you want to achieve. And life is far more interesting when you say yes to things rather than no. So even if something frightens you, say yes, I'll give that a go. So I think my drive and my enthusiasm really came from quite, in my mind, a very scary experience completely taking me out of my comfort zone. But it really set me up for the future and for the person that I am today. I remember once listening to a lady called Deborah Searle speaking at an event, and that's a whole other story. She rode the Atlantic single-handed, so for anyone listening, Google it. It's a wonderful story. But she talked about constantly having to step outside of her comfort zone on that adventure. But she learned very quickly that you're not outside your comfort zone for long. And she used the phrase, it moves with you. So once you step out, that zone stretches, and suddenly you're back in your zone of comfort, I guess. So it's really interesting that you've talked about that in the same way that you've constantly pushed yourself over the years. Yeah, I think your comfort zone is a wonderful place, but nothing grows there. And yeah, it's true, the more you step out of your comfort zone, the wider your comfort zone becomes. It's something I constantly tell the young people that I work with in the summertime. So yeah, comfort zones are a really important thing, definitely, and to expand them as much as possible. Yeah, spot on. Great advice. So 30 years in the industry, what's better now and what's not compared to 30 years ago? What's better? Gosh, I think, well, technology. Funnily enough, we were having a conversation at work yesterday because we had a power cut. And the phones went off, the computers went off, even the lights went off, obviously. And one of my colleagues who is, she's only about 14 years younger than me, but she said she asked us what it was like in the olden days. So we were laughing and we were saying that we actually used to send carrier pigeons. We used to have little holes up in the attic to launch carrier pigeons. And depending on which insurance company it was, it had a little vest on to say where it was going. And thankfully, she's not that gullible as to believe us. But I think technology is a huge thing. I think I can remember writing memos to insurance companies using carbon paper, you know, and how slow the process was. You know, even trying to speak, you know, ringing insurance companies. And of course, you know, we still did that. But, you know, confirming things with memos and then writing back on a memo. And, you know, nowadays with emails, everything is so instant. So I think technology is certainly better. I think one thing, and you didn't ask me this, but I'm going to say one thing that hasn't changed is people. And I think that's one thing that people on the outside of the industry don't always realise, that the people that work in the industry are some of the best people I know. And we're quite close knit industry. Everybody knows everybody else. And a lot of the success we have in our industry is due to relationships. And so I'm thankful to say that that was good then and it's still good now. And I'm really, really pleased that hasn't changed. Trying to think what's got worse. I wouldn't say things have got worse. I think things have just become more challenging just because of the speed of the world now. And 30 years ago, or in the olden days, as my colleague would say. In the days of quill panes and tiles, yeah. The days of yore. You know, things weren't, they didn't need to be so quick because you had to wait for things. But now, you know, a client will ring you with, you know, I've just bought a building and, you know, it needs insuring. And it has to be instantaneous all the time. You know, there's no time to wait or a client is wanting to sign a contract and there's some terms in there to do with insurance. And it's really important that you get those sorted out before they can sign it. So I just think it's become, I think it's just become more pressured. But I just don't think that's, that's not just the industry. I just think that's the world in general. And I think that's, I think, a response to the fact that everything can be done more quickly because of technology. But I think the challenge there is, is just because we can do something quickly, it's, you've still got to give it that thought and consideration to make sure you do it right. Just like we did 30 years ago when we had more time to think. Yeah, that's a really good analogy. I like that. And I guess that's the very essence of what we do, you know, in our industry. We're playing with people's livelihoods, lives, you know, home, business, whatever it may be. So it's really important to get it right. Yeah. What do you think, Lucy, from, you know, from where you sit now, what do you think the industry needs to focus on over the next few years, you know, to make things better for our customers? I think one issue we have that I think I do feel like it's being addressed now is recruitment. Because I strongly believe that clients and customers in the future will still need insurance brokers. But the industry has been suffering from lack of recruitment. And I think everybody is now alive to that and people are taking steps to address that. I think it still needs a lot of work, but I would always say that was my number one thing before. But actually now I feel that people are trying now to get that sorted. It's a long way to go, obviously. I think the thing we need to focus on going forward is really making future technologies work for us. I had a presentation a few months ago at a conference all about AI, artificial intelligence. And I think before that conference, I was actually quite scared of it. I didn't understand it, but I equally didn't want to be in a position where I thought, well, I don't understand it. So it's not going to apply to me. I'll have retired by the time this comes in. One of my colleagues said yesterday that she thought she would have retired by the time the Internet came in. This is 20 years ago. But I think we really need to embrace technology to make our lives easier for ourselves and also for our customers. And I think understanding AI and understanding how that can help in a positive way. I think there's a lot of negatives around AI, deep fakes and all that kind of thing. But I think there's so many good things that it can be used for that I wouldn't even begin to say I had ideas about. But I'm quite happy. I feel quite happy to embrace that and do my bit to contribute to that as and when I can help, because I'm not hugely technological. But I can see that in the future, that's going to be something that we're all going to have to embrace to make our lives easier and also the lives of our clients easier as well. It could be by surveys, could be done in a different way or I don't know. I think the possibilities are endless, to be honest. It's going to be interesting to see how that all pans out going forward. Yeah, that's a real good shout. I have a piece or watch the piece. I watched a piece on YouTube the other day and the speaker was talking about the ability right now for someone to ask chat GPT to write, you know, a 20, 25 page recruitment and attraction policy for a large corporate organisation. And it's produced in seconds, you know, and they then turned it into a rhyming poem just for a laugh. Right. So to illustrate how sophisticated this is already today. And then he went on to say how long before an organisation says to their people, right, automate as much of your job as you possibly can. And the winner gets five hundred thousand dollars, which I guess shows you the psyche of where that's going. Right, because if we adopt it in the way you've said, then it will make our lives easier. It will also change the landscape of work, of course. So there's a bit of both going on there. And I was thinking, you know, when you said before about things move quicker and the expectation is that, you know, answers are provided more quickly from from the microwave to the smartphone. Right. The human race has been, on the one hand, incredibly clever and on the other hand, actually stupid, because it seems to me we're accelerating ourselves into, you know, into an early grave sometimes. And I just I wonder about AI, you know, could that have a similar effect? Yeah, it makes things easier. But actually, does it if it's even possible, does it increase further the expectation of things happening quickly? And I think it may do. Yeah, I think it might do. But I think I think until I think there's so much more to do with it. And I think I think to some extent we have to embrace it and see what that looks like. But I think we also have to have the common sense to realise perhaps when it's going too far. But the last thing I want to do is replace all, you know, all the amazing people I know in the industry or our future selves coming for, you know, coming through with robots. You know, that would be my idea of an absolute nightmare. So I think there is hopefully a happy medium. Who knows? I mean, I, you know, with technology, I know it's got the possibility of running away from running away from us completely. But I think if you think about that, that could that can become quite a scary thing to think about. And I think you just have to, as far as I'm concerned anyway, I try and compartmentalise it and think, right, what could be easier? What could make things better for us and for our clients? And that's as far as I want it to go. But I am not in a position to be able to stop the movement of AI as we go into the future. Well, that's right, the ball's already rolling. So I'm with you on that. You know, whatever we do, we have to use it sensibly and in a useful, good way, I think. I think you're spot on. So I'm wondering, you talked about all the people who work in your team. How would they describe you as a leader, Lucy? Well, it's an interesting one, isn't it? Because I thought when you're asked to describe yourself as a leader, I could say all sorts of things about what I think about myself. But I decided to ask one of my colleagues. And she said, well, you're a very solid leader. She said, you're not wishy washy. So that was quite funny. I was quite glad not to be not to be wishy washy. But I, you know, I'm fair and I think firm but fair, but I'm approachable and friendly and proactive. I'm clear, I'm always striving to move forward. And I think probably the most, one of the most important, two most important things to me, I think, are that, and that really runs through our business as well, is that we look after our clients and we look after our people. And to that end, the development and progression of people is something that's very, very close to my heart. So, yeah, I think, as I say, I'm not wishy washy. Beautifully summed up and you beat me to it. What's come through for me in our conversation is you care deeply about your customers and about the people who work for you. I think that's fantastic. And like I say, that's come through ever so strongly today. That's a really nice link to, so I'm going to change it up now and talk about something else you're involved in, which is RILA or the Rotary Youth Leadership. So for our listeners, Lucy, I wonder, could you take a moment just to explain what it is you do there? And maybe tell me a little bit about what you've learned and what you've got from that experience, if that's OK. Yeah, that's fine. So RILA, so as you said, it stands for the Rotary Youth Leadership Awards. And it's a programme that Rotary runs across the world. It actually started in Australia in the 1960s or 70s, I think it was, because Princess Anne was going there for a visit and they wanted to be able to showcase something about the young people in Australia. And so they put on this course or this camp and Princess Anne came to visit. And from there, the idea of developing young people in terms of leadership was born. So it's it came into our part of the world and my part of the world, Yorkshire, in the late 1980s. And when I joined Rotary about 14, 15 years ago now. The person that was leading the programme in our neck of the woods said, I think you'd be really interested in this programme. It's all about developing young people, all about leadership skills. And I think you should come along. And I'd sort of seen it from a distance and it was all to me, it was all, it's in a scout hostel in the middle of a wood. And I said, I'm the most, well, the least outdoorsy person I know. I'm not practical. I can't read a map. I can't follow a compass. I can't tie knots. What good would I be? And he said, no, you have people that do that. You don't need to know how to tie knots. But what we want is your, we want to have your input about leadership. So I went along and the whole concept of the course really is that you bring young people together. And RYLA actually across the world is for 16, 14 year olds up to 30 year olds. But you can choose the area that you want to specialise in. So my RYLA programme is for 16 and 17 year olds who've been identified by their local Rotary clubs as having leadership potential. And so we have, we run the course twice on consecutive weeks. We have 32 young people each week, divide them into four groups of eight. And each of the groups have a member of Rotary like me as their mentor. So I went along for the first time in 2011 and mentored a group of eight and saw them go through this incredible transformation. We have professional instructors who are ex-military. And it's based around the cold learning cycle, actually, where we give them an experience. We watch how they plan it. We then observe how they carry out that task. And then we review it at the end and give them quite in-depth feedback. We give them feedback, but then they give feedback to each other. And as they go through the week, their leadership skills get stronger and stronger and stronger. I mean, one of the activities we do, for example, is building a zip wire from one side of the river to the other. And so we have professional instructors there to make sure that they are not throwing themselves off a cliff in dangerous, you know, in dangerous circumstances. But it's all about how they're going about planning it. Are they thinking about asking questions like, has anybody done this before? We need to build a tripod. Has anybody built a tripod before? Does anybody know how to tie a knot? But it's not just that. Is anybody scared of heights? So it's taking into account the needs of the team, the needs of the individual and pulling all those together and then getting that feedback and taking that into the next task. You know, on we go. So there were this for five days and the transformation I saw in my team of eight was quite amazing. On Sunday, they looked terrified. By Friday, they didn't want to go home. And, you know, 13 years later, I'm still in touch with all of them. And it's just wonderful to see how they've progressed. But the gentleman who got me involved in Ryla said, right, well, I've been doing this now for 15 years and I'm going to step back now. But he said, I think you should be the next course director. And I felt like, yeah, no, then I felt like I'd been tricked. But no, I was again saying yes to things rather than no. I'd only been doing it one year and we've got people who've been mentoring for longer than that. But Ken had obviously decided that he wanted me to take it forward. And I had the support of the rest of the team, which was which was fantastic. And so I said, right, yes, I'll take it on. So since then, I've probably seen, I don't know, nearly a thousand young people through the course. And it's just one of the best things in my life. It's one of the best things that I do. You know, I go to sleep in a bunk bed for two weeks in a scout hostel in the middle of a midge infested woods. But I can honestly say that is one of my favourite places in the whole world. And it's still the same now. The young people arrive with such trepidation on the Sunday morning and they get taken to the bunk beds and they come and meet me. And I think I'm slightly almost over friendly because I just want them to feel, you know, happy and at home. And they get into the swing of the course and they just make such amazing friends. And the laughter that we hear throughout the hostel, throughout the weeks. And it's just it's a wonderful place to be. And it's something that, you know, has definitely got a very, very big, big place in my heart. And, you know, long may it continue. Yeah, yeah, spot on. I mean, there's so much to unpack there. You know, I'd love for you to come back another time and just talk about that. So I think that would be fascinating to hear about. But once again, what's come through there, though, is that comfort zone piece, both for you and for the young people who join you, that you've all taken a really big step to learn and to grow. And I just think that's fantastic. Yeah, I mean, one of my one of my really good friends, Dave, he does a presentation. He he's a mentor at Ryla. And although sadly, he's stepped back now because he wants to he wants to start doing something else, which is which is fine. And he always says, get comfortable being uncomfortable. And I think that's great. That's another way of saying about the comfort zone thing. But get comfortable being uncomfortable. I think he's a great piece of life advice. I couldn't put it better myself. Yeah, I really like that. Lucy, sadly, we are out of time. I can't believe the time has flown by so quickly. We went out on our journey through your career and what's happened in the industry and what's changed. And what must be nice is we came back a different way because we talked about you as a leader and some of the work that you do with Ryla. And right back to where we started with that, you know, support and mentor mentoring and, you know, all the stuff you got from your dad and your family. And now you're doing that for other people. And that's just that's fantastic. Take my hat off to you. Thank you. Thank you. Because I love it so much. Yeah, I can tell you do. And I'm sure that will come across to our listeners as well. Lucy, it's been a pleasure having you here today. Thanks ever so much for joining me and sharing your stories. I really appreciate it. Very welcome, David. Thanks very much for having me. Thank you. What a fantastic conversation. I really hope you enjoyed that. You've been listening to follow the advice. If you'd like to get in touch with me, you'll find me on LinkedIn. Just search for David Brown Problem Solver. You can listen to other episodes of the podcast on audio dot com. And if you'd like to check out my video content, you'll find me on YouTube at Scoosh Consulting. That's S-K-O-O-S-H. If you want to know what that means, visit my website at www.itsascoosh.com. Thanks again for listening. I hope to see you all soon.