BJJ Exec Open Mat Tristan 4 Ep TBD

The podcast episode is sponsored by PohadaFuel.com, a company that sells nutritional supplements for grapplers and athletes. The host encourages listeners to support the podcast by liking and sharing content on social media and leaving reviews. The podcast is also partnered with The Mat Mission, an organization that spreads jiu-jitsu through communities in need. The host and his friend discuss their experience at Origin Camp, mentioning the beautiful location and the food. They also talk about the importance of training and being in good shape for the camp. Some attendees didn't train much, which the host finds strange. The conversation then shifts to a discussion about the quality of instruction at the camp. Welcome to the BJJ Executive Podcast, Open Mat. I'm your host, Dave Kroll. Today's episode is sponsored by PohadaFuel.com, featuring a deep product line of supplements to fill in the nutritional gaps for grapplers and for athletes of all types. Their XS and Nutrilite products are well-known in the industry for the clean and, in many cases, organic origination of their source product. And as a bonus, they're sold and distributed by my friend and a friend of the podcast, Jiu-Jitsu Black Belt, Tristan Gazelle. If you enjoy the podcast and wish to support us, please do so by liking and sharing our content on social media and by leaving a review on whichever platform you're listening from. The BJJ Executive Podcast is proudly partnered with The Mat Mission, a nonprofit 501c3 organization charged with spreading Jiu-Jitsu through communities in need and providing mentorship and leadership to the youth within those communities. If you want to get involved in The Mat Mission, follow our Instagram page, contact us on our website, or feel free to message us directly. As always, thank you for listening and making this a part of your Jiu-Jitsu journey. And as I always say, welcome to mine. Enjoy the episode. Oh, Origin Camp, the untold story. Origin Camp, the untold story. Origin Camp, yeah. So you are an alumni 2022. Yes. I went to 2022. I loved my camp experience. I had a great time. I'm a little... No. I'm not perturbed. It's the wrong word. I mean, think of the correct word when people are like, it's life-changing. I didn't have a life-changing experience at Origin. I had a great experience at Origin. I got around some really high-level Jiu-Jitsu guys that I wouldn't have gotten around otherwise. Echo Lake is one of the most beautiful places I've ever seen. It's so pretty, man. It's so pretty. It really is. And unassumingly pretty. You get there and you don't think it's going to be that pretty and you're like, oh. I know, man. Especially like that first morning when you wake up and it's crisp, especially where we're coming from. Right. I mean, we're leaving... And it's August in Texas. It's August, yeah. Yeah, we left the swamp too. It's like the 50s or 60s, maybe even upper 40s, you know? Yeah, that's a whole different experience. You smell things differently. There's humidity. I mean, it's just... Food was great. Food was cafeteria food. It was four cafeterias. It was great. It was caloric. That's my point of reference. Is that a way to describe food? Yeah. No. I mean, here's the thing about calories. Lots of calories. Lots of calories. We had mac and cheese. We had mac and cheese. We got to eat like kids for a week with one lobster dinner. But then the rest of it was... Dude, I could not care less about the lobster dinner. That's my kid food. That's my point. Dude, the amount of attention that gets. I don't understand it. I'm not kidding. I don't blame you. It's the highlight reel. It's like, do people like lobster that much? I don't like lobster that much. And I'm the one guy. They're like, did you already eat all four of your lobsters? I'm like, dude, I had freaking salad. I'm like, you had salad? We had lots of... Look at you guys. You're like savages over here. You're freaking cracking skulls and eating... Actually, I love that part. I hate it. I'm like, dude, could somebody just do this for me and bring it to me here or something? I would never volunteer for it, for the record. So the fact it was there and available, it's like, okay, yeah, let me eat it. It's a neat experience because I've never done that. So I've always had my lobster made for me. So this is the first time I've ever cracked my own lobster. So I mean, it was unique. Did you ever have crab legs or anything like that? No. Why would I pay to order things I have to... It's kind of like a crawfish boil. I'm not peeling my own stuff. If I'm paying 80 bucks for crab legs, someone better crack that open for me. Yeah. And even then, I don't feel like... It's not that good. It's like, it's okay. I could have mixed this into my salad. It's water cockroaches. If you actually look at what crustaceans are, it's disgusting. Yeah, they're bottom feeders. Yeah, they eat fish crap and we eat them. It's stupid. Is it good protein? I mean, is it green protein? Here's what I know. God wrote Levitical law and he made everything. So he's like, hey, these aren't for you. And then Paul's like, hey, by the way, you can indulge in these things every once in a while. He's got bacon grease dripping from his chin as he's prophesying. This is amazing. And bacon's great, but look at how pigs operate. They don't want that in you. And same thing with shellfish. I mean, they eat disease. That's their food source. Yeah, this doesn't sound very appealing, right? Yeah. But yeah, it's like... Anyway, performance does the agenda. So if you look at... No, but if you look at people who eat halal or Muslim version of kosher, I think. Okay. What is kosher? Kosher is Jewish. It follows Levitical law. So like they slaughtered the animal appropriately, et cetera. Okay, okay, gotcha. I've only seen it on like hot dog packets. Right. Yeah, kosher hot dog, whatever. But like if you follow Levitical dieting, I mean, your performance is... Like they've done studies. Like it's obscenely better. Okay. Like if you avoid shellfish, if you avoid pork products, like you perform better. Yeah. Like if you have a hierarchy of what's the best meats to eat, I'd say beef is at the top of the list, beef and fish, chicken, and then down at the bottom of the list is pork and shellfish. I see. I see. It's just, I mean, for whatever reason, it's treated as such a delicacy. Yeah. This is a small part of the camp. Very small part. It's literally one meal. But it was, it was focused. It was very focused. And people talk about it. They're like, dude, I went all the way out there. I got a geat and I had a lobster. Well, I have an unfair advantage. So my camp experience, I went with David. So I had someone who had been... We were bunk mates, bro. Yeah. And those tiny little bunks. Tiny little bunks. But... I'm top bunk. Well, no, but in all seriousness though, I went with someone who had been, so I didn't have to like, where do I go? What bunk rack sucks? I mean, so you kind of knew where you were going. I just kind of followed your lead. I would say overall, worth the money when I went, I think it's way more expensive now. It is. Like everything. I mean, yeah. And it has to be. And I understand that. But overall, I had a great experience. I just don't see life changing in there. Like you wake up, you get a big macro breakfast, go train, and people aren't there for the rolls, surprisingly. Like everybody leaves when it's time to roll, which is weird to me. That's kind of what I'm talking about. Yeah. It wasn't like that the first year. Like I felt like we had a lot of just real epic open mats. And like the year that you and I went together, it was double the first year I was there. And this last year, it increased in size again. So that has a pro and a con. Like one of the pros is that this last year, this year, it allowed them to open the camp up more. Like I did not feel, with the exception of when we were on the mats, which felt crowded, I didn't feel comfortable with a lot of the dynamic moves that we had because we were so crowded. And I felt that on every mat, purple belt mats, blue belt mats, and the black belt mats. But like from a living situation, they opened up things that weren't available to us before because they needed to. And it was really open. There were no top bunks taken in our cabin, as an example. You know what I mean? Whereas when you and I were there- Our bunk was full. It was full. Yeah. With maybe one exception or something like that. No, it was full. The guy took his mattress and put it on the floor. That's right. And it was like nine feet tall. But yeah. So I heard a conversation though. Like first of all, we have a unique situation and everybody does. And everybody does this in our network, but really everybody that does this in this area because there's so much available to us. And I used to notice this down in Florida when I was at the Valente Brothers because all of Hoist Gracie Black Belts came and did their black belt testing there every December. So people all over the United States, maybe even in different countries that I didn't know about. But one of the things that I remember is that like, man, somebody comes and they're a brown belt and they're the only, they're the highest ranking person in the school. And they're getting their black belt and maybe they brought one of their training partners with them or something like that. And we'd get these really interesting roles. And I remember talking to them. I'm like, man, seriously? Like that's all you guys got? It's not because they're not good or whatnot. It's just because that's the circumstances. And so if you're going to, if you're in that situation like that and you go to a place like Origin, like, dude, you're going to have such a good experience because you can train 24-7 as long as your body can hold up, man. You're going to train multiple times a day. Some people only train once a week. That's funny. Get in shape before you go to Origin because I went in, I was getting ready for Worlds. I ended up not doing Worlds that year because I was like, it's the week after, too much trouble. And I just forfeited my money. But no, I went in in good shape and I'm glad I did because I had a great experience because I was well conditioned. So my body kept up. Yeah. I don't think there's any point in going if you're not going to train. Like I really don't understand. I don't know. A lot of people didn't really train. I know, man. They maybe got five rounds in a day, which is weird to me. I'm like, you can get five rounds in a day at home. So let me ask you this. And I got to play this carefully. But what did you think about the instruction? Mixed. Well, give me a pro. Pro is we get the same instruction here as we do there. One for me and one for Rico we're teaching. I think that's a con. There's strawberry and everything. I thought it was a pro because I'm watching this like, oh, I know this. Remember, my expectations were not low. They were non-existent. Like I hadn't been. I didn't know what to expect. So I wasn't disappointed because I wasn't going in going, I'm going to get all this knowledge. I'm just, hey, there's a lot of great guys that I'm going to get to learn from. My favorite was Laborio. I learned more from Laborio than I did anybody else. And that's not to put anyone else down. Yeah, it's just that guy. It was all these little details like the fists under the belly button versus just on the hips. Or, hey, when you get, just strip the fingers. I'm like, whoa. And the ones that everyone went fanboy over, I got the least out of. They had Bernardo in there. He did what he's famous for, and I'm glad he taught it. Yeah, Silver Underpass in that bar. Yeah, it's part of my game, but there were details that I got. And I just, I'm not, I don't follow anything. So like, I'm probably the worst. Like, if you're a fan of competitors in Jiu-Jitsu, you'll geek out the whole time you're there. But I didn't know who half these people were. Yeah. So like, they were talking about this guy. This guy started teaching. I'm like, oh, that's cool. And then everyone's like, you're so-and-so. I'm like, who's so-and-so? He won this, this, this, and this. And I'm like, I don't know what those are. Yeah, I know. That's an issue, right? I mean, that's something that... So if you're a Jiu-Jitsu fan, they do a great job. Like, the guy from Shu-Jitsu. Chewy. I've never seen a video. Dude, Spencer loves that guy. Spencer loves that guy. Buddy Spencer. Yeah. And he, like, I think he would have paid the tuition just for that. Right. Which means it's worth it. It's worth it. As I said, I'm an unfair critic because it's like, I just, I don't know. But I never, there was no bad instruction. There was no seminar where I'm like, well, that was a waste of my time. Oh, 100%. Even the Pramiga stuff that he's gone over with us before, it was a good refresher. I'm glad I was there. For sure. I am not an expert in any of that. Correct. You know, I just happened to have seen it. And I was going to say something about my injury, but actually I will. So I dislocated my shoulder. Right. That's a terrible way to have a dislocation. What's crazy about it is that it was in a seminar with my instructor and we had gone over all that in a private. That sucks. I'm like, dude, this is terrible, man. It was a dislocation of my shoulder in Maine on a technique taught by my teacher in a private that we already had. Yes. And it was a freak incident. Right. One of the things, like, I'm with you. No bad instruction whatsoever. I mean, top, top, top, top level. But there's this tendency in jujitsu where people are like, dude, I train at fill in the blank Dean Lister School of Jujitsu. You know, therefore I'm the best ever. Like, I'm a foot lock expert. Like, really? You've trained straight ankle locks 40,000 times or something. You've literally divoted your hand and changed your anatomy like he did. I mean, association does not equate linearly when it comes to this type of stuff. You know, so like you've got to have more than just being associated with somebody in order to be able to perform at that level. Now, yes, you are going to be exposed to technique. You're going to have access to Q&A more organically than you would ordinarily. But like, you need to be able to soak in what they're kind of like giving you and then apply it. And the more and the wider of a spectrum that this becomes, the harder that it was hard for me. So I can imagine somebody that was new to jujitsu, what I would prefer. And this is just me. This is just me. Like I might be in this extreme of a minority. And no matter what I say about origin can't do, they're going to freaking fill that place up. They are going to. I think they almost did it in like five minutes. I was about to say, I think the pre-sales fill it up. Yeah, you're going to have to have a sweet and we probably do have these hookups, but like, you need to know somebody to get in like really quick. If it wasn't for J.P. Daniel, I wouldn't have gone. Yeah, he promoted it pretty hard. Like it goes on my calendar every year, if anything. He's different though, dude. Like those guys from Excel on Front, like they've, they're like, they're in the golf cart crew. They got a whole different bargaining experience. Josh and James were there this year. I'm like, you know, they're doing their own. I mean, they were in the classes, of course, you know, they're working, they're training, they're doing their thing. But like, dude, they're celebrities, you know, so. Well, and if I could have my family with me, it'd be a wildly different experience. 100%. So here's what I would like to see. And I would like this at any, any camp that I go to in the future. And as a result of getting this experience that I've kind of learned this about myself, but like, I would have liked to have mixed belts. Now this, this can have some consequences as well. And having 600 people there doesn't help. But like what I, what I struggle with is in an afternoon session going from a daily HIPAA suite to a single leg X overhead sweep to an X guard entry, that's very intricate into a totally different sweep that goes into a heel hook that, you know, it's too much information and on too wide of a spectrum. What I would have rather had has had like we had, we had like Alexi Pickerel, for example, I mean a, a daily HIPAA student, a hundred a decade daily HIPAA student, you know, our, our instructor with for me, good, you know, like I would have rather had a deep dive in to, you know, become a daily HIPAA expert by the time I leave. I would have loved that, you know, now I think a lot of people would be really bored with that. And guess what, if you don't like daily, but then your whole camp experience is going to be blown, you know, and there's probably a balance there, but I didn't come away and this is, I mean, I'm, I'm not blaming anybody for this. Like I could have definitely trained harder and practice more and drilled more and whatnot, but I didn't come away with any expertise. I came away with a lot of knowledge to, you know, very sprayed, very, very unfocused. I got a lot of nuggets, a lot of nuggets that I'm glad I got. And I think when I paid what I paid in 22 worth it. Yeah. Because I got a week's about of a longest I had taken off from being active in any pursuits of mine and the immersive experience in Jiu Jitsu was great, but being at Echo Lake and having the downtime in between training sessions and the hang loose attitude of, if you skip a training session, no one's going to know. Now I didn't cause I wanted to get everything I wanted to get out of it. And there was plenty of downtime in between that I was able to, I mean, I read three books. I took a lot of time. I paddleboarded every day. Yeah. I mean, it's a great experience and I highly recommend everyone go at least once. Yeah. Because you're going to, you're going to leave going, I'm glad I went. Now, will you go back? I don't know. The immersive experience is hard to, it is in, in replicable. I don't know if that's a word or not, but like, it is now. It is now. I've down created it. I don't want to spell it. Probably sound like J somewhere in there. Yeah, of course. Use a Q. Yeah, of course. No U though. Yeah. K is for night. K is for night. Yeah, exactly. You laid it out the right way. It's, it's something that you need. You really would get a lot out of it. If you go, if you have the time off available, uh, I would not do it. A lot of the guys that were there, dude, they were all working off the wifi remotely. I would not recommend that take the week off. Uh, cause I think a sabbatical is necessary every few years for most people that are, here's the thing. The higher levels, you just, you guys are probably listening to this podcast or high performance humans. Like you don't tend to do this if you're not crushing it in other areas, right? This isn't a cheap sport. Your tuition is going to be more than a gym membership. Yeah. And I mean, yeah, it's not as expensive to say golf or uh, shooting or something like that. But I mean, this isn't an inexpensive enterprise. Like you're probably doing well enough financially that you can afford this in most cases. Now there's the guy living in a trailer, riding couches, uh, training all the time. Sure. But I'd say this is a dominantly young professional hobby. Yeah. And I think you will benefit from the time off in the wilderness in Maine. Yeah. Uh, having your meals thought of for you and having your training thought of for you to where all you gotta do is go. That's it, man. All you gotta do is show up and you pick when you lift, you pick when you stretch and you can be very, uh, instinctive with what you do all week. And if your body needs a break, you can just take a break. Your body needs a nap, take a nap. You can skip whatever you want. You can go to whatever you want. Um, the best roles were at night, which my body hated, but that's when everybody else wanted to roll. Yeah. Um, cooler to, huh? It's cool. It was cooler. Um, which I did a pretty, like seeing my breath when I was stretching afterwards, all sweaty. That was cool. Like that's, there's some cool factors that I'm very glad I went. Uh, but I didn't go this year just cause I didn't have so much a good experience. I'm like, I gotta do this every year. Cause like, uh, I could not that I don't think the week is wise. Um, but man, it'd be, I would be so eager to go for those days. Yeah. Or maybe five, like seven. It's just, it's, it's too long. I would probably do that as well. I would probably then make it something that was more, it was four days. It'd be annual. Yeah. I was like back and forth, you know, I mean there were, there were, cause I don't want to pay for it and leave early. I know. I think it's too expensive for four days. I agree. I agree. There is a guy, I was, um, and again, like we're in such a unique situation because number one, we do, we like, I don't even know what time it is, but we, we trained this, we trained today. There's 18 of you guys, you know, I mean how many brown belts we had myself, two or three others. Then we had one white belt there. I mean like the class was so stacked amount of skill and talent and training that we do get questions afterwards. I mean I had, I had a conversation with like with Weston that I'm going to, that, that, that right there, like those types of things right there about like high level techniques and whatnot. I mean we just have that stuff available to us. If you don't have it and you, and then going to a place like origin is going to open your eyes to jujitsu, I believe, you know, the other thing that I noticed that I thought was really unique and it's a, and it's totally different than, than something that I need or you know, experience. But there was a guy there who's a black belt, really good too man. Um, from upstate New York and he doesn't have a good network up there, man. Like he is, he's it and he doesn't have any mentorship for, from jujitsu. Like I mean, I mean I might be mischaracterizing it and if so, I don't mean to, but like that's kind of, I'm sort of paraphrasing what I heard him talking about and I heard him in a conversation with for me, you know, and, and like for me is such a good mentor, you know, like he's given him all of this information and all of this jujitsu guidance that's coming from 30 and 40 years of this that came from 30 and 40 years that came from 30 and 40 years, you know, like that's not something that you can recreate by YouTube or by an interest even, you know what I mean? It takes, it takes so much forging and like, man, we, we had that yesterday, today, the day after. I mean, yeah. So it's like, you know, sometimes you just have to remember like, well, what are you going for? Yeah. Well, I'm going out to, I'm opening in Justin simply because I don't think it goes further west than that. Like if you go west of Justin, where are you going to do jujitsu? Yeah. Nowhere. There's nowhere to go. You can go 20 minutes north to eclipse and Anthony is a world-class competitor with two world-class coaches on his staff. You can go south to Gan, but both of those are 30 minute commitments. You're not going to do that consistently if you're not a high level competitor. Um, but if you're in a neighborhood and there's a jujitsu school, five minutes walking distance, you're going to go. And one of the reasons I'm doing this, I'm like, like, I've been so blessed here. I want to take it west. And if, uh, I, I got obviously, uh, it's not uncommon knowledge, but I retired at 33 and, um, I get right as real as what you do. Everyone thinks I got like hit the lottery or, um, did something wise with investments. And you know, my story is like, no, I met, I met some really good people and I made some really good decisions in my twenties. And if it was for that association, I would have made the good decisions and I would have known to retire at 33, you know, and I would just kept doing what I was supposed to do. And I think that's, what's missing in most people's lives is good association. Like they don't have, they aren't seeking mentorship. Yeah. And if they would, and they were selective with their mentors, they would flourish. And I think that's what origin camp could be for some people is the opportunity to connect with people they wouldn't otherwise connect with. Totally. Totally agree, man. Cause if they have the resources and the time to go and they're a high rank, like if nothing else, they're wise enough to go. Yeah. Yeah. I agree, man. You're going to like, I've heard, I've heard it said, and I haven't done a really good job of this in my life and I don't have the same network that you do, but like having somebody at just, you know, different age stratospheres, right? Like somebody who is, who is significantly older with somebody who's your age, who's going to push you to another level that you have to sort of stay neck and neck with. And then also having somebody under you as well that you could look at and be like, you learn way more from discipling people than you do from being discipled by a lot. And one thing I've had an unfair advantage of is through my business network. My, one of my best friends is 75. Another one of my best friends is 55. Another one of my best friends is 40. I'm 39 and another one of my best friends is in his twenties. Yeah. And like I've got this wide range of life experience that I'm getting to observe from all these vantage points and we're all in the same industry and we all have the same cause, purpose and mission for our life. So it's super unique. Yeah, it is really insane belief system. So it's our, our spiritual beliefs all line up. So it's like you can see what the timeline looks like and so you can modify your decisions accordingly and it's pretty special. And I think my access to for me when I got plugged into him, like 2019, um, change, it changed my judicial career. I went from the two a day hobbyist that was better than most, um, to getting smashed on five days a week and loving it and went from casual hobbyist to pro competitor. I mean, yeah, it's a big swing. That really is. I would do the same. You weren't competing. I was done. I was done. Like I was like, I got it out of my system. I was a career rank. I'm good. Career rank. Happy with it, man. I could take that purple belt. I could go to any school in the country and like, well, purple, purple's the impressive one. You know what I mean? The Barney belt is like, Oh, you know, jujitsu. Yeah. Blue belt. It's like you've got, you didn't quit. I felt no one thinks you know anything. Yeah. But yeah, you got a purple or brown. It was like, Oh yeah. Okay. That was the same way man. I got plugged in and I'm, let's do this man. This is fun. Like I, you know, it just, it was just different, man. Yep. Just different. One last topic. Sure. Small one. Um, there has been, this is kind of funny cause this is like, this is something that goes out with and we've brought this actually, we brought this up and you just brought the term up a few minutes ago too. But like, like I don't like the term hobbyist. What do you mean? I've been thinking, I'm maybe I'm going to change my mind on this at some point, but like it seems to be the reason I don't like it is because it is our, our pastime here with jujitsu. It's the only thing I know of that we call it. We call ourselves like hobbyists. Like I'm not a hobbyist golfer. I go play golf. I try my best. I want to go out there and I want to win. I want to do well. If I don't do well, I get pissed and I throw my clubs in the water. Especially when the rent is, especially when, well no, then I take the cart and drive it into the water with a lot, with the rented clubs in the back. Of course. Yeah, naturally. And, but see, the reason I don't like it is because it's, there's this, there's this like divide. Right. And, and like my, my philosophy with my personal jujitsu has been that no matter where I'm at in my, in my like in my day and my, I mean if I'm injured, I'm injured. If I'm legitimately injured, then I'm legitimately injured. But otherwise, man, if you're training four or five times a week, a couple of times a day, if you're lifting, if you're doing other things, which I realized that not everybody does, you're almost never going to be at your best. So you just need to be prepared to be able to train in a variety of different conditions. And I hate when people are like, are you a hobbyist or not? Oh, I'm just a hobbyist. Like if you're just a hobbyist, what are you doing here? You know? Yeah. Well, I mean, so I don't, I agree with you that we tend to use it not in a positive term. Yeah. I've never used it as a negative term because I just see like, that's a good, that's a good point. I just haven't because I'm like, I'd rather them there. I know me too. There was a, there was a season when we had a certain instructor at our school that was just getting on everybody for being late and he's young, arrogant, and I'm not throwing him under the bus, but with my school and now that I've been teaching classes, people show up late, I'm just glad they're there. Like, dude, come on. I'm so glad you made it. Cause you know, they were playing mental ping pong with it. They were going to come. Yeah. They hit traffic, almost turned around. Yeah. And if they get in there for the last 10 minutes of class for one round and stretching and they feel good about it, I want them there. You got a rep. Yeah, exactly. It's better than nothing. Yes. And, uh, the, I'd say there's like peers. Cause I mean, there's, we got to maybe come up with a better term than hobbyist, but you got the person there two days a week on a good week and then they travel and then they're back and they get a day in and then they miss a week. And so they get one day a week. And if you commit to two days a week, you're going to average 1.5. If you commit to three days a week, you're going to average two. If you commit to four days a week, you're going to average three. If you commit to six days a week, you're going to average five. And if you commit to seven, you're going to get six. I don't care who you are. If you're over 25, that's just going to be the story. And it doesn't matter what you commit to in terms of frequency. It's the intentionality and why you're training. Are you training because you enjoy it or are you training because you plan on competing? Are you training because you eventually want to make this a big part of your life? Yeah. Because I don't see it as, Oh my dude, like for me, cause prof or profession and career is jujitsu. Very obvious. Yeah. But I'd say that's a tiny minority. Oh, I think that's statistically been proven. Right. And I don't think that everybody needs to have the trajectory to become the competitor and school owner and high level influencer. I think this needs to be put in its place as how important it actually is to most people. And the term hobbyist does need to be replaced with something less thrown around as a bad thing. Cause I agree with you. I mean, you've got golf as an example of there's a, you play golf, but you don't play jujitsu. Jujitsu is a lifestyle. Golf isn't a lifestyle. You can put the gloves up for two years and go play a game of golf and you're still going to suck. You know what I mean? Like, or you're still going to be somewhere. And then if you get committed to golf and you're going to go pro and like, it's not the same lifestyle. Yeah. It's the, it's the, it's the, as Jocko calls it, the path. And because like I wake up, I'm going to wake up tomorrow morning and my focus is not on jujitsu. My focus is going to be on the mission, cause and purpose that God has placed in my life, on my daily habits, my wife, my kids. But then I'm going to go and take care of myself physically by working out. But it's definitely influenced by jujitsu. My schedule reflects jujitsu is really important to me. Cause show me your checkbook and your calendar. I'll tell you what your priorities are. And there's a big chunk of my day that's devoted to jujitsu. Like look at today. Holy smokes. I lifted influenced by jujitsu. I would have lifted anyway, but I definitely lifted with the intention of making sure that I don't get hurt in jujitsu, making sure I'm strong enough to do jujitsu, making sure that I'm conditioned enough, et cetera. I did a 30 minute commute to go train, train for an hour and a half. I was doing this podcast. I'm going to go teach tonight. Like it's a big chunk of my day. I'm obviously committed, but I'm not doing all of that because I need to win a competition. And I'm not doing that because I'm trying to achieve something. It's part of my lifestyle. Yeah. And yeah, so I agree with you. Hobbyist is a bad term because it's just, there are people who train two days a week, lift two days a week, total exercises four days a week at a seven. But if they weren't doing jujitsu, their total exercise might be two or one or zero. Yeah. And I don't want to make that person feel bad about it. I gotta do more. I gotta do more. Like, no, you're doing so much better than the average. Like no, keep doing what you're doing. It's not that important to you. Uh, like there are people that I know that love jujitsu. I had been a white belt for four years cause they don't train that much, but they love going and they scrap and they have a good time and they're fitter than they would be if they didn't have it. They know more jujitsu than most for obvious reasons. And if I look at, if I look at that person's life without jujitsu, it sucks by comparison. Do you remember those guys that were in our cabin in origin? Perfect example. I mean, I mean they, one of the guys, the only jujitsu he does all year and he has gone to that camp like eight times is the camp. Yeah. I mean it's crazy dude. It's hard to, my thing with a hobbyist isn't, first of all, I need to clarify that like if you can only train once a week, if you only train once a month, like better than nothing, I'm not judging, you know, I'm not saying that like that, that used to be me Not only that, I think Kramer said the mats are always there. The mats are always there. The mats are always there. And I tell that to the guys that are training, that I've been teaching here just recently, some of the Justin students, it's like, no, just train. If you're having fun, everything's going to be fine. I just don't like when people say, well, I'm just a hobbyist. The sentence alone doesn't ring well with me. That's like saying I'm just a weightlifter. No, you're lifting weights to stay in shape, to live longer and have a more fruitful, prosperous life. You're not competitively doing snatches and cleaning jerks hoping to get to the Olympics one day. Hoping to get to the CrossFit Games, like it's one or the other thing you can do. You can either be up on the podium or I can be, I guess I'm just a hobbyist weightlifter. I'm just going to take some weight off. I don't know, that's what ends up happening. You just try less, you know, and I don't like that. It increases the effort because of the, not branding, the identification marker. Let's say that you go to PANS camp, right? Six o'clock at night on a Tuesday night, you go train, somebody rips an arm bar on you like it's like the gold medal match for, you know, Worlds. Dude, I'm going to be pissed. I wasn't expecting that. Hobbyists are not. You go to PANS camp, there are no hobbyists, right? They're all competitors. There are people that are not like, yeah, so you need to be ready to kind of like, this is, it's just different, you know? So what about lifestyle jiu-jitsu? Are you a lifestyle jiu-jitsu guy or are you a competitor? Because there's guys who don't compete. That's an element of my lifestyle, yeah. I'm sure I rolled with somebody today, at least one, I don't know, maybe yesterday. So I guarantee you I'm going to roll with at least one or two people this week that have never competed and don't plan on competing that are giving me a run for my money. And I don't think that person's a hobbyist. They train five days a week, they love the sport, but this is the compartment that jiu-jitsu fits in in their life and that's its compartment. If it gets out of there, their life gets out of whack, their calling gets altered and life will get pissed at them, the kids won't get the love and cherishing that they need in this precious season of their life. Perfect example, I mean, Dave, when your kids were single digits, you weren't training six days a week. That's right, man. But when your kids are double digits, they don't care if you train six days a week twice a day. And then when your kids move out and have their own lives, train all you want and it's seasonal. And so I think, yeah, I think we got lifestyle jiu-jitsu or competitor jiu-jitsu. I like that. Okay, cool. So maybe we're redefining some things here. Maybe. I hope so. I agree with you, but I've never used the term hobbyist negatively because in my head there's hobbyist and competitor because that's just a phrase that's been used since I've been doing jiu-jitsu. Right. Everyone goes, are you a hobbyist? I'm just a hobbyist. Like they always, it gives them an excuse to not put in the adequate effort to become great. That's right. Or perform well in the moment. And it's kind of like a, it's a qualifying statement for something bad that's about to come. And that's what I don't like about it. Right. I agree. It lets them off. Like they can have lazy jiu-jitsu because they're just a hobbyist. Like, oh, I got smashed on it, but it's okay because I'm just a hobbyist. That's right. You passed my guard because I'm just a hobbyist. Right. And it takes it away from me, the competitor going, no, I was working hard. Yeah. A hundred percent, man. I'm sweating as well, hobbyist. You know what I mean? Yeah. You know what I mean? Like I looked in your eyes. Right. I don't know, man. Maybe that's a childish comment on my side. No. But it's something that always has bothered me. I think, or last time jiu-jitsu, because you can't, it's not a player. Yeah. But I don't want to say fighter. Yeah. Because it's not an accurate statement. It's not. Matcher? Warrior? Jeez. I mean, that's such a cliche overused term these days. It really is. And you've got the, I don't want to say wannabe, they act, me and Mickey Dowd, he's a purple belt under- He's a brown belt now. He's a brown belt. That's right. He's a brown belt. He's got that red bar on there. I'm so proud of him. Yeah. I mean, we have so much fun on social media. Like, did you enjoy your match? Either a match or a fight. And so we just use them interchangeably. Did you have a good fight? No, I had a good match. Because wrestlers, we always call them matches. And it's weird when you say, I had a fight, which it's not wrong. It is a fight. It's a controlled combat fight space. It's not MMA. I'm like, just because you're not punching, doesn't make it not a fight. If you've never done jiu-jitsu, I can see why you can think that. But if you've done jiu-jitsu, you've done MMA, not a lot of difference. Anyway. Is Mickey a match guy or a fight guy? I don't think either of us know what the other one is, and I think that's what makes it funny. I refuse to admit which one I am, because I think it's funny to make people upset when they're like, no, it was a fight. I'm pretty sure it was a match. Wow. Yeah. No jiu-jitsu semantics for that important. I think it is to the people that really want to be known as an MMA guy to the non-jiu-jitsu people. Probably so. Well, I mean, I just made a big deal about the word hobbyist. Right? I mean, we're getting into semantics. We might as well go with that one. That's it, man. But no, I think we do need a new term. I think that a hobbyist should be retired, because I think that the sport and the lifestyle of jiu-jitsu has evolved. I mean, 20 years ago, there wasn't a jiu-jitsu lifestyle. There were people who did jiu-jitsu, and there were this weird sub-community. And inside of that sub-community, maybe there were hobbyists, but not many, if any. You had this really small sub-culture, and now it's so culturally relevant. As you said earlier, there's four street corners with a jiu-jitsu school on each of them that face each other in a pool. So this is a very mainstream thing to do with your time. Kids train jiu-jitsu now. They don't train taekwondo comparatively as much. And they're going to take that into adulthood, which is my hope. I want my kids to train jiu-jitsu, but I also want them to go swim, and I want them to do basketball, and football, and soccer, and all that stuff. And know that the mats are always there when they want to come back. This is a lifestyle. And you get to do this because you stay in good shape, and because you take care of your body. You get to enjoy this amazing sport of peaceful combat. And I think we need a term for the person that doesn't compete, but enjoys the path. That enjoys the lifestyle that jiu-jitsu provides. I like it. Lifestyle aficionado. Ooh, that's fancy, but I don't think it'll stick. Too many syllables. Yeah. Got too many vowels. No, I mean. We'll have to work on it. Yeah. I think there'll be another podcast. We'll have to poll the audience. We'll have to. I think you'd get some really good input. I'm afraid of what I'd get, man. You would get some absolutely hysterically funny. I'd probably get happy with it. People would be like, stop worrying about stupid stuff. Yeah. We got the bozo, the clowns, and the competitors. All the competitors will be hating on the people that don't compete. Totally, dude. I don't get it. Everyone needs to compete. I think everyone should compete once. Just once. Just to have the experience. Even if you get smashed. You get smashed at practice. I know, man. Why not get smashed in front of a group? Nobody cares. Every single time I've competed, my business associates, the extended network, how'd you do? I lost. Oh, okay. They don't care. I know, man. It's not like, oh, I'm so sorry. What happened? For me to have lost at World, so did I. Nobody cares that either of us lost. Not on anyone's radar. Yeah. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. 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