Crude_Rawdogging_Captivate_minus autism jokes

Welcome to Crude, we are just hardcore raw dog news episodes, we discuss having undetected, accidental flip up, fluid bonding and just the semantics of it all. I am here, I am Effie, hello, I am coming in from London and I am joined by Frank. Hey. Hey Frank and Misty in Berlin. Hello. You know we have got a lot to discuss today about raw dogging and you know if any of the listener or the listeners have listened to some of the episodes, we discuss raw dogging, it keeps coming up, the word raw dogging, so let's flesh it out, shall we? But first and foremost, I really want to know what has been going on in your lives, any update, Frank have you got any updates for us this week, fill us in. Not many, not many, nothing too juicy, just getting more and more hippie in my old age, had a very fun seven some last week with some friends, went to Bali and then came back to my place and we were all more or less sober, ended up lying there in a cuddle puddle as the hippies say and it was a very nice experience, people went home early, I woke up the next day, was able to do some exercise, I felt very wholesome. It wasn't just a cuddle puddle, it was also a poking puddle. Oh yeah, sorry, yeah, it became a puddle of cuddling but there is other stuff going on but we lay there and I just thought wow, this is so nice because there is always this mix isn't there between, well there is a me, between this complete hedonism and this let's get wasted and do everything we can and then this other side of it, both are very different so I think maybe that's a good thing for the whole raw dogging topic because when we're sober and thinking about things, of course raw dogging is terrible, it's an operation, it's awful, it's horrible but then when people are wasted and thinking of hot things and raw dogging is awesome. I feel so shamed. Thanks for that up there, sevensome. Sevensome, there's no nice way of saying it. Did it start off with seven or did you just invite everyone and then it whittled down to seven or did you specifically curate this seven? Yeah, because it makes you think, was it three couples and then one left? Yeah, all the dynamics. No, it's good to avoid couples or at least if you get couples, have couples who aren't couple-y with this kind of stuff. So no, it was just actually friends, people I'd seen before and we went for two hours to this open-air spa place in Berlin and in the end it was more guys, everyone was bi pretty much and the one guy who said he wasn't bi is by any definition of it. I was having a conversation about this very thing with a good friend of mine recently. For example, a woman is like, I'm just not attracted to women at all. Does that mean you're not attracted to yourself in a way? I think inherently everyone is bisexual because if a guy is completely straight, then he shouldn't even be jerking his own cock, you know, there's that as well. Wow, that sounds like deep gay philosophy there. Well, there's also deep, deep homophobia as well, right? Well, so much of homophobia I think is just, it's so cultural. It's obviously being pushed on and it pushes on these insecurities of the man. But there's no female equivalent of don't bend over, pick up the soap in jail, right? Apparently in jails, most women are playing around like it's 3D. It's ubiquitous, whereas in men's prisons, it's different. I asked about the curating of your seventh sense, it's because I've been kind of like feeling really smug with myself in my ability to lately be able to bring cool people together specifically for play. I mean, the get-together doesn't always have to end in play, but it can and does usually. So what I'm saying is I'm getting better at choosing particular people to bring together, whether at my place, someone else's place, an event, pre-drinks, a club, a party, for an orgy, essentially, or gangbang, usually an orgy. And I had a really beautiful one not long ago. It was a fivesome, if you want a some-some. And it was one of the first, if not the first couple that I met in London almost 10 years ago in Torture Garden. And they told me that I was their unicorn. Now at that stage, I didn't know what they meant by unicorn, but it turns out it was the actual term for a single girl coming in to join the couple. So then after that, I really adopted the unicorn term. Anyway, so it was my first couple and my most recent couple joining forces. And you made them talk about yourself in Day and Night. And I was just there like, I'm the glue that brought you all together. But it was really, really lovely because I don't bring all my couples together. Not to say I own so many couples, but there are some that you can just know that they're going to get along. And what happened was one of them was away when they met a while back. And so it was like this whole feeling of, is the guy going to be cool with this coming in to join us? And, of course, I knew they would. But there's still that moment when they're just about to meet, when you're like, okay, I curated this get together. If it falls through or if there's some awkwardness or some shit goes down, I kind of will feel a bit responsible. But I will say it was a great, great, great, great, great evening. We practiced shibari. We chatted a lot. We had quite a few drinks and other substances in the mix. And a lot of chatting and laughing and sharing photos and sharing bodies. And I even got squirted, which is rare for me to happen. And then I left early to catch a flight. I just went straight to the airport. I went home, grabbed my stuff, went straight to the airport. Then they called me and I was still up at like 7 a.m. to say, hey, thank you. It was just so, you mentioned how it can be both wholesome and horny and sexy. That's my update, basically, to announce the fact that I'm getting really good at curating little get togethers. Misty, have you any really wild, the opposite kind of stories to this at the moment? I'm afraid neither wholesome nor horny. Now that I'm single again. Chatting with a guy for you. Sorry to interrupt, but let's not fly over that now that you're single again. Because the listener doesn't know that detail. Because last time we spoke, maybe you were hinting to it. But congratulations on being single again. I'll just take it like that, probably. The journey that will take you on now, one. Let's go. Turn to the ground field. And I had missed the detail that he's like two meters, four centimeters tall. That's really tall. I'm just about like 40 centimeters less than him then. And I gave it two days. I pondered about it. And then I felt like, honestly, I can only sit down and lay down with this guy. There's no point in meeting him. Wait, hang on. He's too tall for you? He's too tall for me. So many women. And we'll talk about women specifically on Hinge and Tinder. Only one tall guy. And you're here saying. I think I have a very tight frame. It basically gets to be 184 to 186. Wow, that's specific. I mean, I get it. So did you not see him because of this? No. I do a breakup. Two meters, four is pretty tall. You deleted the app. You threw it out the window. You're like, I'm done with this. I gave it a go. I gave it a red hot go. Too tall. You didn't even do the whole Goldilocks and the three bears. Honestly, I pondered for three days. I'm not going to meet him on Sunday evening. I was like, honestly, he's two meters tall. And I can't get myself to push to meet him. I'm just deleting the whole thing. I'm not the app person. Maybe you're not ready for filters on your apps yet. Maybe he's not ready to go on one of my dates. I had one with another guy, but it was just a talking date. Actually, let me put this to you. I didn't mind this. We had a couple of interesting discussions about AI and about Elon Musk, which I found myself defending quite vigorously for some reason. But then, you know, I think because he wanted to move on further, at the very end of the bike, when I was still talking about AI and, you know, technological challenges of our times, he was like, the problem is just that you keep talking about it without knowing anything about it. He said that to you? He challenged you? On a first date? On a first date. He was so harsh. Loser. Fucking loser. After that. Because he's like, excuse me, what? There's a guy who doesn't want to have sex. Welcome to the minefield. No, actually, then I confronted him. So what happened then, he's like, oh, blah, blah, blah. Let's, you know, let's meet again. I have a couple of ideas, which were actually very specific, which I kind of liked and found quite, again, like a bit neurotic. So we had a date during the, you know, during the night. Now, you know, to have a date during daytime. So I've been thinking that now we should maybe move on into the sensual phase, where we just have some sensual making out. So you could come to a cafe and read, sit on the sofa and read a book, and we pretend we don't know each other. And then, you know, I come to the bar and just join you on the couch and we just start making out sensually, of course. Which app was this? Was this the SpongeBob SquarePants dating app? It was Field again. And then he was like, oh, that, or we find a day bad, you know, in the spa that Frank was mentioning, and, you know, find out his spot there during the day, mind you, because this is an important ingredient for the next date. Nothing is sexier than formulaic dating. And I was like, okay, before we get into the, you know, the detailed planning of our next date, can we maybe discuss why you became so angry about the fact that I didn't, that I wasn't an expert about AI? When we discussed it, yeah, he did give me an answer. He tried to answer it, but I think he wasn't quite admitting to the fact that he just wanted me to listen to him. He wanted to lecture me about this stuff. He works in tech, and he didn't like me to, you know, keep asking him questions. I think pretty much that's what was going on. You know, he was getting annoyed that his chance of making out was slipping away because I was getting obsessed about Elon Musk. You need to give Effie and me your phone, and we're going to get some dates from you because, I don't know what's wrong with you and your filter, but it's not working. The fucking two field stories I had, and now it's… Oh, my God. But, you know, honestly, I mean, the last week's episode was all about this online dating debacle, but this is just mad. But you've only just started. If you really want to meet someone, like, and go on a fun date, you have to weed through, you know, you have to weed through the weeds. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Weed through the tall and the short grasses. Yeah, and if it's too tall, that's okay, too. Neither of them was sitting in the tight frame, that's what's happening for me. Anyway. Okay, let me ask you this real quick. Newly single, you've got sealed, you deleted it, you're probably going to reinstall that after this episode comes out, after we record, in fact. It sounds to me, correct me if I'm wrong, that you're now just looking for someone physically, aesthetically pleasing, someone that you're attracted to, someone to play with, and they're the attributes that you're looking for now. So they have to be in the correct frame for you to want to see them, and I get that. Yeah, I guess it's just so much easier to get over a breakup if you have the dopamine rush of a new crush. Oh, yeah. The saddest days. No. It's okay, you have to go through. Yeah, but you need the rejection. The thing is, actually, I think it's a good thing that I deleted it there, because my modus operandi until now is actually to just have no breaks between breakups, so basically stay in relationships for too long. Sorry, no breaks between relationships. Stay in relationships for too long, so that basically you're breaking up emotionally while you're still in the relationship. You start cheating, also cheating without a condom, by the way, and then you break up and you just hop on the next branch and take it from there, and there wasn't much sadness left for me a lot of the time after the breakups, I've got to say. I was too deep into it. Somebody segway. You're the kind of person that therapists want people to break. I'm really proud of you, actually, Misty, because you said you've never actually had a break where you're single. It's going to be so much fun. Just do it. Relationships, I say that because, I mean, I've been on a break of being single for six years, but before that I had overlap between the two, and so I know very well what you mean, and it's just, imagine I had stayed with that second person, I would have never had that single phase, and now if your next person is your quote forever or someone that you get really deep into. It's just the daddy, the daddy for the three kids and the babies. Yeah, if your next person's a daddy, then you'll look back and say you'll never have that break, so I would suggest taking the break if you can. You can't hurry love. I've come to the length here, so let's play while daddy's away, shall we? I think it's time. I'm in a situationship at the moment with a woman, and it's becoming kind of intense, and we can talk about new relationship energy and how quickly it can fuck you over. Let's see where this journey takes us, because I'm enjoying it so far. Well, it's taking us into some dark regions now, because the subject today is raw dogging, and I must say when we first discussed talking about it, I was thinking I don't know what to say about it, because it's always talked about as in something that someone wanted and someone else didn't want. It's always very negative, whereas I experience it occasionally as something very positive, at least in the moment, and yet, because it's so fucking hot. I think I texted that to you the other day. It is so fucking hot. And yet it's so completely irresponsible. Thinking back, you know, there is this always contrast with us talking about things where we try to be responsible and explain things, and yet there is this other part of sexuality in our sexual lives which isn't rational and which isn't okay and which isn't necessarily something that one would recommend to someone else, but it's something that's going on and that lots of people are doing, and one of these things is definitely this raw dogging. For those of us who don't know what raw dogging is, I was going to read the dictionary definition, or the Wikipedia dictionary, which is literally just to have sex without a condom to bear back. Now, we keep talking about sex, and raw dogging is PIV sex, so penis in vagina sex, and it can be used with any kind of penetration, right? But we're talking, when people say raw dogging, it can be kind of derogatory, but I think today we're going to talk about how good it can be. Because I definitely think it's a term that's been owned by people. The first time they heard it, or going bareback, it was sort of a very machismo male way of talking about what they did to someone else, you know? Not necessarily stelting, but, you know, oh, I did it, or I got away with it. So it was always from a very male perspective of doing something that you shouldn't be doing, with the assumption that women aren't also into it, you know? And I think people have owned this term now, and although women and others, or whoever they are, can talk about it, it still has some negative connotations. Bareback or raw dogging will both have negative connotations. Raw dogging is probably the king, and then bareback, I don't know, I've only ever heard that in a boastful situation. I actually haven't heard that word in years. I hear about bareback a lot in sex work. So do you offer BB, do you offer bareback? And so that is a service that some clients or some people might ask for. And I think it's very, and also in the gay scene, right? And I feel like raw dogging somehow just feels like more penis and vagina, more sloppy, more fluidy. So I feel like bareback seems a bit more, like you said, trying to go macho, male, male, what a man with a dick is doing to another hole. I think there's more bareback. Because raw dogging also can be used in a playful sense. So for example, you might be like, why is this person raw dogging the work? Just doing it without trying. Just doing it in this clumsy, sloppy way. And I guess when it comes to sex, raw dogging can also be like that. We were talking about earlier about perhaps being too drunk and accidentally raw dogging. So there is the accidental, but then in the moment, often if one person is a bit too drunk, the other person is a bit too drunken, it can be convenient the next day to say, oh, I was too drunk, I didn't know. We didn't do this, we didn't do that. But I think in the moment as well, often for both parties, it is just something that seems you want. Actually, can we please discuss this just a little bit in more detail? Basically, there's been a big topic, like how much drugs and alcohol can be a valid excuse for raw dogging within an open relationship. This has been a question that's been going on with me for over three years now, and here's why. So basically, a couple of years back, with that partner, finally first invited to a couple of sex parties and went to the first two maybe together. And then he had to go away for work for three months to live in another country. And I made a couple of friends, really enjoyed myself. So he was like, sure, go back to the parties when I'm away, just have fun, being the generous gentleman that he is. So the next time I go, you know, I even go a bit deeper, the fun, a bit more substances, a bit more everything, longer hours the next day. And then there's this very, very hot young guy with this extremely straight dick, like such a straight dick. Sorry, wait. Take it from the book. I have to pause you there for a second. When you say straight dick, you mean like geometrically? Like a ruler against shit, and it would be straight. If he was standing up, it would be pointing like 90 degrees. I think so, yeah, but also it has no curve in it. Actually, that night I was really fascinated with that dick. So I think we had sex a couple of times. At some point, I think we're changing condoms or whatever, and I was like, should I just sit on top of that? Should I see how straight it is without a condom? Just measure that out for you. I think maybe like five minutes, yeah, we fucked without a condom. And then people started noticing for whatever reason. We're like, these guys are doing it without a condom. We're like, okay, we stopped it, you know? I guess that's when you said something, like you heard. Yeah, and so we interrupted it, we stopped it, but the night goes on, nobody, you know, whatever, more sex. Later on, it's again us in the mix, and we're kind of again not just already tasted the fire. You know, you want to go back. You know, you've already been there once. So we do it again, and again, like someone screams like, oh, fuck, this guy's naughty. Does a straight dick guy have a girlfriend or like a partner? No, in any event, I come back from the party. I tell my partner then what happened. He's extremely hurt, but I think in a typical male fashion, doesn't show it too much, you know? Basically, we just talk about it a little bit, and then like the topic is being dropped, and then there is an immense aftermath because what then basically happened is we don't really discuss it for the next three months, and then after three months, he confesses to me. Basically, he took revenge on me and raw-dogged with two women in the meantime, and that, you know, he tells me straight after the second, because he's like, first time I raw-dogged with someone because I was like, now it's my right. The second time, and then the second time, he's like, okay, shit, now this is getting out of control. I raw-dogged another one. Ever since you raw-dogged like months ago at the sex party thing that we started, I find myself finding it difficult to put on a condom now when he does. So, you know, this is proper relationship drama going on. That is drama with a capital D. He is now, years later, when we're having our, you know, post-breakup discussions, he still brings it up. He says, this time you raw-dogged. I think we never, we never quite worked through the loss of condoms. Wow. So I am, and this is when I think when I told the story for the first time, this is how bad is it to raw-dog in an open relationship? Because A, you could think, fuck, you broke the one rule, the golden rule, am I someone to be trusted ever after again? Or were you just high, too high and too horny and left out the plastic? From listening to this, it's triggered a few things that I've had in a couple of relationships as well. I think there's a couple of things going on, or it's very particular to open relationships is the idea that even people with no rules, they usually have this one rule. Always condom. Safe sex, safe sex. Because you're usually having unprotected sex with this one primary partner or this one person. So it's about trust, it's about not catching cooties or whatever. And then this rule gets broken. But I think the subsequent arguments, like when you talk about revenge, and I'm not just talking about your partner, I'm thinking, as I said, this triggered other memories of relationships. I think part of it is the jealousy part, which isn't being managed. There's this break of trust, which is huge in trusting your partner, that they're doing as you say, according to whatever rules. I think some of it is just some of this jealousy gets projected into this, you know, you did this. Because I know if you break other rules that people would have, and I'm doing these scare quotes out with my fingers, you know, no overnights, but then you do have an overnight somewhere. And then six months later, the person is still saying, yeah, but you stayed overnight, and that's why I'm staying here. So I think sometimes in open relationships, other bits of jealousy get reprojected into these things. So there is the break of trust. But I think there's also just other issues, you know. It's an easy point, because it's a black and white case, and you broke a rule, so I'm right, you're wrong. And here I can push some of my emotions into these things, because so much of our lives are complex emotions that we express in various different ways. But sometimes it's easier to keep pushing our emotions into one particular thing. God, I think that's such a good point. But I don't think it's the same thing. I think we all do it, and we probably do it with very different things. But I think in that case, because if you're having sex, you have an open relationship, and you try and create these rules. But when it comes down to raw talking, which I think we're going to, which I'm hoping Effie's going to bring up a bit, when we get down to this point of you're there, the person's not there, it's very intimate, you've been kissing, and doing whatever you've been doing, and then you get to this point, it gets very primal, you know, this point of I want to fuck this person, I want to cum with this person, this person wants to do this, or whichever way it is, it gets very primal and animalistic. And at a certain point, I think, this other partner who's not there, I don't know how much control they can expect to have of the situation. Because when you were saying this, I was sitting there thinking, it's none of your goddamn business what I do when he's about to stick it in, or she's about to do this, or whatever. And I think maybe that some parts of sex should be kept for that person, even within open relationships. And I think this unprotected protected is, as long as people are getting tested, as long as people are being somewhat responsible about it, or being open about it, and honest about it, and explaining the risks to other people. I don't know, is it the other person's fucking business what you do? Yeah, I mean, I have some thoughts on this, because I have to agree, it's no one's fucking business what you do and what you decide to do with your body in the moment, in an agreed capacity with another person, whatever fluids are involved, right? I mean, now I'm jumping stories, but this has been extremely relevant to me very recently, when again, I kind of stepped outside of the boundaries a bit, when I rolled up again with someone with just five minutes, because basically it was a lot of action, a lot of quick action, so he flipped outside and I popped him into my... Yeah, but this was a play party situation as well. Play party situation as well, and then he was like, yeah, I just got recently tested, should we just do it without quickly? And I was like, okay, let's do it quickly. Yeah, God, been there, been there, been there. And then, but it was literally after two minutes, we were both like, fuck, this isn't really fun, we both have partners, nobody can enjoy this, we're totally not relaxed, let's put it back on. And I think if he then moved after the party, went home and told his girlfriend in this situation, which was very recent, I think I would have been like, whatever. This was unprotected sex for two minutes, I just get myself tested, we don't have to make a big fuss about it. So you're saying you would have told him, or you would have not? You would have said it to yourself. I think I changed between the first story I told, I think I would have told him, because it was too long, it was too intense, it was too early on in the open relationship. So I was like, this is the first time I've breached the rule that we have, and I felt like immediately I'm not going to have any secrets, because secrets for me were always a sign of basically getting out of a relationship before. But I think I changed my mind, I think later on, now, I would have been more flexible about that, if it was just a quick, small one. How fair is it for partners in open relationships, even if you have these rules and these are things, that when you're in this situation with this other person, because it's another human being, it's not a sex toy, it's another human being, and you've had an evening with them, you've had a drink, you've had a talk, you've gone to a play space, or maybe you've had a date, I don't know. And then the other person is expecting and saying, we had a deal, but what they don't take into consideration in there, maybe it's a bit of jealousy, maybe it's something else, they don't take into consideration that you're with another human being, you're in a relationship with that person, be it for five minutes, for an hour, you're also rolling with the blows, exactly, you're going with the flow, you're getting your thing on, and then this other person in the cold light of day is expecting this other scenario with you and these people. I don't know how fair it is sometimes for the person you're in this primary relationship with to expect that you can treat this other person as a sex toy, or it's just something that you're doing on the side. Yeah. Or am I going too far? It's putting a condom on, it's not really treating anyone like a sex toy, right? No, but in the situation it can be different. As you know, with condoms, there's guys who are, they're not going to stay hard, you might not have the same kind of sex, they won't want to do it, a lot of guys don't want to do it anyway, so you're going full on in that moment, maybe you're so horny, you want to do this, maybe you want to have this experience, maybe that's the kind of vibe you got off this person, maybe you want it nasty. I don't know, these are just other things that can be in the situation between you and this other human, and I don't know if this other person can always have the say over this. I was going to say, I hear that, but then also at the same time, there's so much at stake sometimes with that little move. And again, we're talking about a situation of usually a penis in the vagina or an ass or a mouth. There's so much at stake in that, for some people it's pregnancy, for some people it's STIs, for some people it's thrush, and for some people it's going against a rule that you had with someone or a physical decision that you've made with that other person, sometimes it's not worth it, there's so much at risk. But at the same time, I do get the whole, it's just a person, we're bubbling together and I get that. That split decision, whether it be alcohol-infused or passion-infused or rebellion or revenge, sometimes they're not strong enough for you to make that, quote, poor decision to roll up. There is so much at stake. I mean, I see both sides of this argument, for sure, because I've been at both sides. Actually, I think this is a fair point to make, the relationships you have with the one that's coming into the relationship, the one you're dating outside of your main relationship, right? They also come, this is a relationship that also demands attention and care and love and has also situational features that require certain responses or that you want to give certain responses that the other person, you know, doesn't have the right to have the full control over. Yet, I thought the thing, at least as long as you're not in a fully, you know, equal polyamorous conservation, normally, and that's the whole point, is that the main partner says, well, a couple of things, even if the situation is evolving such that you want to give them to this new other person, you're not going to give it to them because you are obliged to me in certain ways, because you promised that we would keep certain names, name the unprotected stuff, for example. But it could also be other stuff. It could also be sending nudes or whatever. It's like whatever you take, you know, right? Whatever boundaries. Yeah, I mean, I think it's a fair point, but then it's just, again, about like re-discussing where you draw the boundaries of what you want to keep to whom. I'm just playing a bit of devil's advocate here. Boundaries are really important because everyone has different ways of how they're going to live openly or not openly or whatever they're going to do. So rules are important, but I always think it's a real pity when relationships collapse because someone's transgressed a rule. Rules are fantastic guidelines, but they're not like a replacement for rationality or for how you deal with other people. In your primary relationship, to clarify, if you do have unprotected sex with someone at the risk situation, I think it is important to tell your partner. I just think that you should feel safe to tell your partner, say, listen, this happened. I was at a party. I was messed up. We did this. I'm really sorry. I'm going to go get tested. I'm going to wait four or five days. Without them retaliating. You get tested. You tell them. Yeah, exactly. And retaliation, revenge is never good. Please tell me a time when revenge is not good. No. This is the thing. If you're in a situation where you can't have an open conversation with your partner about a transgression that has occurred, whether it be unprotected sex or otherwise, if you don't feel safe to do that, then maybe you're not in the right. That's something to think about. This is smiling at me like, should I have taken it as a red flag? But, you know, I mean. It was safe for a couple of years. Yeah. I mean, I did that. The red flags that were flapping in my face very early on in my previous relationship surrounding all of this stuff is like when I look back, I'm like I must have been colorblind to see the red flags because a lot of these similar conversations happened, whether it was about sex work, and they still do. Go to those sex parties, gangbangs, and so forth. I'll never forget this one time that even just the thought of it now makes my stomach flip. I come back from a job and he asked me if I brushed my teeth. And I had to say yes, and then I went and did it again, and I was just like fawning at his feet like, oh, my God, in case I had this other person's cum in my mouth or whatever. So even if he had a problem with me going on dates with other people or going to gangbangs or going to sex clubs, and he or my partner, they asked me to clean up my mouth after I'd been at a thing, I would just be completely annoyed because that just suggests something about them more than you. And also if you feel like you're, if it's a cleanliness thing, it's okay to, and I don't want to say make mistakes, it's okay to make decisions to raw dog. Now, we're not talking about stealthing. We're not talking about condom break. We're talking about active decisions between people to decide to put their body parts and their genitals together where usually they should be putting a condom on or dental dam or whatever it is or the spray or whatever. That's a different thing that we're talking about. I think if you also said, you understand when people, when this is taking this like symbolic, huge meaning for people in a relationship, if this is, you know, if this is a rule and then gets broken. But I just want to question whether it should, because when I had just like two minutes of rotting at a recent play party, you know, when the guy was just happy about the fact that you've been recently tested and I'd been known to sleep in with my partner without a condom. And then this blow up into a huge mess where I had to send a voice note or voice notes with his girlfriend explaining that I didn't take advantage of, you know, her weak boyfriend and just put myself onto her, onto his unprotected dick. Did you feel like you had to? No, she, she, she contacted me. We know each other. She contacted me and she was like, and the first one was like, I can't believe you just put yourself onto this unprotected dick for your own advantage. And it's like, well, actually it wasn't quite like that. And it also was his idea. You actually, for once, it hadn't crossed my mind to keep going without a condom. That's not okay. It's not an okay conversation to have with someone. No, I agree. I think she was, I mean, she was just so hurt. It was the first thing that she blurted out basically. But then we, we actually met, you know. There was some generalized misogyny already there as well. Of course, you know, like who's to blame? It's the bitch basically. Respect relationships. And I was like, honestly, like if at all, you should be more angry at him because we're not in a couple. And then I told her how the whole, you know, condom disaster had been weighing on my relationship for years because she kept being like, I'm not sure I can be with this guy anymore. Since I know this may be the absolute deal breaker because I just don't know whether he's trustworthy at all to be in a relationship with him. This is getting like so out of hand. Listen, you know, when I found out that my partner had taken two revenge condomless fucks, I knew that he's capable of lying, of keeping secrets, of breaking the rules as well. But that doesn't mean that 95%, I know he has my back and is a trustworthy good guy. Yeah. It's a bit of a, you know, I, I myself can be, it's like most people can be like, this doesn't question the whole persona, the whole presence. And, you know, she was so close to like breaking off everything. And then we had a FaceTime call basically the three of us where we went through the details of the situation again. Are you being serious? Of course I'm being serious. Do you think in a way you would like speaking to your, your old self in a way, you know, when I say, if you could speak to your 15 year old self, what would you say? So you were like speaking to your three years ago self. Honestly, I had amazing raw dogs in my life, but I think you should make sure that it's both, both people are in a relationship. If the listener could see us cause we're on a video call with each other. Our mouths are gape, Frank and I, our mouths are gape, our eyes over our face. When you said all the things that you've been saying, I may have mentioned in a previous episode or two, the fact that I've been single for so long. When I say single, you know, I haven't had a partner, particularly a male deep owning partner. And so I haven't been having any unprotected raw dogging with anyone who I've chosen to. And this has been an accident or like a moment of, you know, the puss is so wet that it's like I had to, when you just let the cock roll on top of the vulva, just roll, roll, because you're like, maybe didn't have a condom or too lazy to get up one. It's the hottest thing, especially when the cock is curved. We talked about straight cock, but I like a curved one as well. I actually just have to do this back geometry. And then you just turn around to them cause they're probably like cradling you from the back. And you just turn around and say, just stick it in. So I've had a few of those like little moments as well. So on a holiday with Elle, the two of us, you know, I want to say it was around COVID times cause, you know, we're both probably like not having enough sex. We went on a bit of a trip somewhere in the Mediterranean. I don't want to put too many specifics on this story, but there was a guy there that she had met previously, really hot guy, really nice. We did some like outdoorsy activities. He invited us to his place in the hills, you know, we were eating and drinking and just having a laugh and fucking. And then there was this one point in the session of fucking, like this guy could go for ages. Like he's the type of guy that doesn't come, just keeps going. And then sometimes you just want to get railed in this way. So at one point Elle and I were like, we really wanted to get double dicked. So like one guy in her pussy in mine, both doggy style. And so that was what we wanted to do. Only to make it even hotter, we decided to double raw dog. So imagine there's a sofa, we're both leaning on the sofa with our asses in the air. And this guy, this Mediterranean hottie with the sandy blonde, curly head of hair, thick thighs, delicious, was going in her, out of her, in me. Like it was like double Elle, Elle, Effie, Effie, Elle, Elle, Effie. And her and I were kind of close to each other. Shoulder to shoulder, looking at each other, having like, we were so happy to be receiving this like double raw dog. Because, you know, it's so, so wrong. It's so taboo. It was like, didn't really have partners or anything at the time. But even if we had, we maybe would never have told them. I don't know. Because it was such a beautiful moment. The three of us had agreed that we're going to do this nasty act in the middle of the mountains, in the middle of who knows where. And to this day, we just like, we're so happy about that decision that we made. And there's always that thought like, this Sandy Head dude, he probably raw dogs everyone, you know. So there's that thing you have to think about, because he was so happy to do it. So it is a risk that we take. And I haven't raw dog since. Let's get really crude about this. For now, we're going somewhere. This is what really interests me in the episode, is this idea of going back to the primordial. Yeah. There's something really hot. I'm celebrating it, yeah. My cost, being wet and her pussy or their pussy going into the other pussy and not touching that one. And now we're going into it. And I know, Effie, you've got this horrifically science-y, awful, disgusting word, fluid bonding, to describe all this. I hate it. It's not funny. And this is going to kill me, because it is science-y. I think it's a science-y attempt to try and explain something that's just dirty and hot. I feel like every time we talk about something, I bring in like the polyamory dictionary. And they all have the same ring to it. So the word is fluid bonding. And when I first heard it was when I was actually fluid bonding with my partner. Fluid bonding is exactly raw dogging, except you're doing it in a more conscientious way with one partner or multiple partners. We've agreed that you are only having sex with that one partner. But actually, it's something that goes beyond PIV and beyond cum and beyond pussy juices, because it can also refer to blood and urine and other basically bodily fluids. But I feel like in the polyamory community and any open relationships, people who have decided to do fluid bonding, and I laugh because it is a kind of cringe word. I used to use it so much. But now it's like fluid bonding does sound better than having unprotected sex, because unprotected has that negative connotation. But fluid bonding is like, it sounds spiritual. It sounds lovely. It sounds like a decision that you've made. But that's not why we do it. How many times have you said to someone, Hey, Dave, let's fluid bond your fluids and mine. Come on. No, that's different. No, because, okay, fluid bonding is actually more of a decision and a philosophy. It's not that you do it there and then. You can't fluid bond there and then. You are already fluid bonded, right? I can smell the patchouli oil coming from your statements right there. It's just that the word fluid bonding has come into the mainstream. So people are using it maybe willy-nilly. I also love to read Reddit. There's a whole Reddit conversation about who else hates the term fluid bonded, because it sounds magical. And also, we haven't talked about this yet, but I would love to get someone on who is polyamorous and who can talk a bit more about polyamory in that there can be this hierarchical polyamory where there's like partners, certain partners are in a higher position than others and primary partner, secondary partner and so forth. Because when the term fluid bonding comes into this, it could also suggest to the other person that they're not worthy of being bonded in this way with you. I don't know. It seems like pretentious. It's rationalizing something that is not rational. It is completely insane to meet someone at a sex party or to meet someone in a pub, toilet and have unprotected sex. It doesn't make sense. Bi men in Berlin, I'm going to say most gay men in Berlin, are not having protected sex anymore because so many guys are on PrEP, especially a lot of bi men are on PrEP. And one of the conditions of getting PrEP in Germany at least is that you're getting regular sexual health tests. So for them, it's a done deed. Whereas if you're bi and you're not taking PrEP, it's very risky. And then for women sleeping with bi guys, so we're talking about people in sex positive communities. It's insane. Forgetting the pregnancy issue, let's just push this whole issue to the side. It's insane to have unprotected sex. And you can call it through a bonding, call it what you want. Why do people still want to? I've not had unprotected sex with a man in three years. And every time I'm about to have sex with a guy, they are the ones saying, let me get a condom. I'm like, you sure? Yeah, I think we should. And so they're the ones suggesting it. But they've been the ones suggesting it. And depending on how high I am, I've been saying to them, no, I want to feel it. Now this feeling in that moment, it doesn't matter if I've just been drinking or doing something else, or I'm usually not sober in those moments. That feeling that comes over me is, I want the risk. You want it, but you don't. I want to be fucked. And I'm not thinking fluid bombing, and I'm not thinking this. I want to be fucked. And I want to feel it without this little tiny millimeter barrier, whatever it is. And it's very primordial. And it's very, very hard. And I have no idea how many people with pussies can just say, no, we're not doing this now. Because maybe it's the scare of pregnancy, which is, you know, I've never had to go and get a morning after pill. So it's very easy to me to say how hot raw dogging is. I haven't had to go through that, and I don't know what that does to someone's body. However, that feeling, that moment of, I don't care about the risk. I don't care if you're bi. I don't care if you were fucking in a dark room last week. I want you to fuck me with your cock, without a condom. I think Elle, our gorgeous Elle, has talked about this before as well. Like there's something really hot about this forbidden nature of unprotected sex. Now I say that word, it's not sexy at all. Yeah, or like barrier-free sex is another thing. Another term that fits you. I don't know. I don't know. It's probably like the in-between. But like, I hear a lot of those. Where do you get them? What do you get them out with? Are you reading the polyamorous? No, listen. I'm bringing up all of these terms because I said at the opening of this episode, I said we're going to talk about the semantics of it all. Raw dogging sounds like nasty and raw, and like you said, savage. And then fluid bonding sounds more spiritual and loving and consensual and blah, you know. And so some people might think that it means the same thing. But actually now to hear you speaking like that, Frank, I think because people are using them in the same way, using fluid bonding and raw dogging as to mean the same thing, just to fuck without a condom, I think that's because more people know the term. But actually, I think fluid bonding is completely different. I mean, it's annoying because back to the semantics, it's annoying to say, my girlfriend and I have decided that we're, you know, we only share fluids with each other, you know, or my boyfriend and I, as opposed to we're fluid bonded. So that's like, that's another conversation about how it goes. And I feel like people who are fluid bonded, So you're like, no, I'm never going to have sex with you again. in the polyamorous way, or in an open relationship way, they're probably not thinking every time they fuck, ah, feeling so animalistic right now. No, they're just flowing into it, you know, and they're also doing it to preserve something within them and to not let other people in. So what I was mentioning earlier about some people could see it as a hierarchical thing. We're probably going to have people messaging us saying, you are completely off. And if so, let us know, come in, come and talk to us about it. So what did you say? Do you think I'm becoming a sex nerd? Is that what you're thinking of Misty? Sounds like it. Have I ruined my chances with you now when I come to Berlin? No, are you going to not invite me to your dick party? You know, just not yet nerdy enough. You don't know what my nerd scale has given to me in life, man, I'm a philosopher. You're getting me all wrong. I don't use any of these terms anymore. No, I mean, I could, I would, but I also don't have partners. I don't want a fluid partner. However, I do because, again, like most of our episodes, it ends up being this, we're talking about the pussy dick. Currently, I'm having a very sexual relationship with a vulva owner. So then in the same way, there's like, she'll be like squirting all over me, and I'm squirting all over her, face sitting, all this barrier-free sex. I'm putting that in quotation marks. And that there's still something in that as well. Like, what if her and I, and this is not going to happen, that we decide that we're only going to be fluid with each other, and like, so no one else can squirt on me, or no one else can like fuck me, or I can't fuck anyone else with my strap on, or, or use my, you know, in different ways. When we talk about the word or the term fluid bonding, I'm not actually referring to raw dogging or having sex with a condom. I'm referring to a decision made between people about the way they conduct their sexual life. Right? Yeah. Would you say you are raw dogging with her, right? Well, yeah, because like, but when I fuck her with a strap on, I'm putting a condom on it. Right? Yeah, but you should anyway. I do it with everyone. I do it with everyone, and that's for, just because it could get dusty. Yeah, because ew. But like, her entire pussy is in my mouth. Like, right in there. Mine's in hers. The liquids are going into my, into mine. I think I even got BV because of this. You know, and it's like when I raw dog, a person with a condom comes inside me, it's a recipe for BV, bacterial vaginosis, and that takes my whole pussy out of whack. So I actually think, because I've been raw dogging with her, that I got BV from her, and I told her, and she was like, yeah, probably, babe. I think it's important to say, as a penis owner, see, Effie, are you proud of me? I'm getting better and better. I am, thank you. As a penis owner, penis owner, the difference between sex with a condom, and without a condom, is so enormous, it's almost like a different experience. So, the actual sensation, the feeling, of having sex, for men, with a condom on, and I know, some women will feel it more than others, if you're wearing a condom, or maybe people are drier, or been drinking too much, or you're not using lube, or whatever, women will say, oh, I feel it, or that's like this, or I don't want this, or whatever. But for men, putting a condom on, in PID sex, takes away 50% of the experience. Or more, sorry, I'm just putting 50% there, for the scientific people. Really? Like, it's huge. It's completely different. If you're fucking a guy, or doing anal, with a condom, the difference isn't that big. It's there, it's there, but it's not the end of the world, because that's more about, you know, I'm going to fuck, it's tight, I'm going to cum. But with vulvas, it's huge. But is it just because the vulva feels so different, or is it because the... Because it's wrapped a dick. Oh, it feels completely different. I don't know, imagine you put your finger into some plasticine, or Play-Doh, or you put your finger into a warm pot of marmalade. Mmm, yeah. There's two different sensations. That is vast. I am not reducing people with vulvas, people with vulvas to jam. Let's just be completely clear about it. Men only really have one erogenous zone, and all nerves lead to the cock, you know, all paths and all roads. Yeah. And with the text of a condom, it's very, very different. This is why I think so many men, they push for not having it. Apart from the getting older won't stay hard thing, which even I have discovered. You mean like with age? With age, as you get older, when you're in the... So on top of that, and you have this fear, you know, there's always this thing with guys, and the older you get, the more it starts to fuck with your head, that you need to perform. And again, we're getting back to primordial things that we can rationalise, but this is something else that's deeper than that. So you're trying to perform, and then it's really hard, and you get really hard, and you want to fuck them, and then it's like, stop, let's put a condom on. Put it down, put it on, oh, it's on the other way, it's on this way. And then, I don't know, with your guys' experience, there's a lot of guys, and you know, the statistics are exactly this, that I think, normally, you have about 50% of the people who use a condom in risky sex situations, but it's correlated negatively with age, and education. So that definitely, the older, the older you get, the older the guys get, the more likely they are to leave the condom on. When we were recording last week, and we were doing the episode about dating apps, and Ben was going to talk about Grindr, he was right here the whole time while I was recording, and he was asleep because we were fucking all night. God, you looked amazing! Okay, so basically what happened was, so I met this guy at like a bi guy party, a privately run one that is really good because there's a lot of open-minded people there, black guys as well, who are bisexual who can't otherwise practice their bisexuality or gayness. So anyway, fast forward to a year, and ever since we've been back in touch, I've just been really enjoying him. I just love, he loves all the things that I like, like my feet, he loves my feet, he's also bi, so I like to fuck him, and we've been having really beautiful moments. So one time he was over, and he had slept over, and then we were doing that thing that I described earlier about the whole cock rubbing on the wet pussy, and when, I don't know if that happens to other people's pussies, but when there's a dick near me, and it's close to my, and there's like, I want it so bad, my pussy gets so wet, like it's like a waterfall, it's like, you put your hand in it like a glass of water. So anyway, my pussy was at that point. And then I turned to him and I said, do you want to put it in? And then he was going to go for the condom, and I was like, actually I was thinking maybe without, and he was like, yeah, yeah, I do. I go, you know, you're good with that. And I kind of asked without being, without kind of killing, and I will say this, it's not killing the mood to ask about condom or to ask about this or to ask about that. So in this regard, I was just like, okay, yeah, let's do this. And so we fucked. And when I say fucked, he slid his dick into my pussy and we like, raw. We raw dogged the juicy, it was delicious, it was great. And I look, I can't promise you I didn't say fluid porn at the time, I don't think I did. But if you wanted to go into context, you'd never, ever say that. I haven't seen him since. I think it is romantic. Even though I've had my tubes tied, it's not, it hasn't been a reason for me to have unprotected sex with anyone. But I actually like, like this person in that way that I feel like I've wanted to. Like I haven't, the point of the story is I haven't wanted to get that deep with anyone. And now I've got two people that I'm quite deep with. And that doesn't include the fact that all the other penetration I've been having. So I was invited to a group sex situation and I knew that there were a few couples there. So in the WhatsApp group, the person who was organizing it was talking about these are the rules, these are what we expectations, and this is going to be a condom. Protection is key. Even if you usually don't use condoms with your partner, we're going to ask you to use it with them at the party. So that was something that I've been seeing. That definitely was number one. I think it was number two. It definitely wasn't in Berlin. That rule hasn't made it over here yet. We've raw-dogged the shit out of this episode. And I think I'm going to have to hit up some people. Didn't you want to say we fluid-bonded this shit? It doesn't even sound good like that. It doesn't have a ring to it. You've lost on this one. I don't like this one. Oh, I wanted to talk about the artificial penile pills, but let's bring it up next time. I'll leave you with that. Oh my God, when you see the skin dig, you're like, honestly, people are sick. Yeah. Yeah. It's hot. Humans just can't. People are sick. They're just too bored. I don't know how well we are on that scale of sick enough, to be honest. I think we should get this person with the penile pills on the show. Well, since I started this episode, I shall finish. We raw-dogged the shit out of this episode and had a lot of fun and a lot of fluidity within the episode. But honestly, take care of each other. Take care of each other. Thanks for listening and yeah, see you on the other side. Bye everyone. Bye. Bye. Bye. You've just been listening to Crude. If you'd like to join the conversation, follow us on Insta, Crude underscore podcast, C-R-U-D-E underscore podcast, or email us on crude.berlin at gmail.com. Have a great day. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.