Injury Time 11oct2024

Injury Time Programme is featuring an interview with angling legend Jackie Coyne from Mulliglass. They discuss his career in angling and the tradition of fly fishing in his family. They also touch on the role of a gillie and the qualities needed to be successful. Jackie shares his earliest fishing memories and the importance of having a deep respect and understanding of the water. They also discuss Jackie's first experiences in competitive fishing and the techniques used. Overall, the interview highlights Jackie's passion for fishing and the influence of his family in shaping his angling career. For this week's Injury Time Programme we're going back to a programme done by Paul Gannon in February of this year where he talked to Jackie Coyne from Mulliglass about angling and his career in angling. This programme is kindly sponsored by Coymore Abbey and Gardens 095 52 001 Good evening listeners and you're all welcome to Injury Time and I'm joined in studio by angling legend, I suppose there's no other word you could use to describe this man, Jackie Coyne. Jackie, you're more than welcome. It's great to have you. Thank you very much Paul. It's great to have you in the studio. Back in 2002 I happened to be sports editor of a local publication called Coymore Life and at that time I interviewed you at length Jackie and wrote an article based on our interview outlining your whole career in angling up to that point. So for the first half of this hour we'll just reflect on that article and feel free to come in as I read away Jackie. This will just kind of refresh your memory as to where you were all those years ago. And then in part two Jackie we'll have a look at what's happened since 2002 and there have been I'm sure numerous highlights, one in particular in 2016 which we'll come to later. Very good. So with that I'll run with the article. I was born the first day of spring a true Aquarius so I suppose I was destined to have a love of water. The fly fishing tradition has been in my family for four generations, spanning three centuries. As far back as 1870 my grandfather fly fished and gillied in Kylemore. The significance for us is in the passing on of the inherited gift and the tradition and in this respect we probably have a bit of a head start on the rest in that we know things instinctively about the angling game that others might struggle with initially. Can I just ask you there, what is the essence of gillian, a word I've often heard but I... Gillian is an Irish word, you know, I think it actually means guiding, we call it guiding. Now would that be the direct pronunciation, Paul, you might be better qualified to answer but in Ireland they always say gillian, it's taking out people, bringing people to the water if you like, river or lake, but we mostly associate gillian here with the lake, say the carp and the mask or whatever. My grandfather, as I said, my grandfather Tommy Joyce and my uncle John, they all gillied in Kylemore so if we were to say that in English it would be guiding. You know, it was always called gillian so that means they were hired. During the fishing season my grandfather Tommy Joyce plus my uncle John mostly, and I did some parts with John but they would, instead of doing their regular job, say John worked in the garrison, he'd be putting out gillians for the day, you know, guiding for the day with two people, like there's Buck the Lake, you know. And what was the essence of being a top class gillie, what qualities did you need? Well you need to be a fisherman, I think you're a very good start. We always used to kind of smile at fellows who didn't know anything about fishing, they'd be over on the lake guiding. Well, you know, it's like anything, like a football coach, you know, you want to know a little bit about football before you go teaching people how to play football. It's gorgeous, and so you need to have knowledge of the water, you know, you have to be able to look after the boats your first time, you have to build the boat and have the boat ready, and you're responsible for those two people all day, you know, it's quite a series. On a big lake like, say, like the Corovitz, you know, you want to know what you're at. There's very few people that know the lake either, like, it's almost inherited, you know, that type of stuff all, you know. Yeah, I think that's at the heart of what you're saying here. My earliest fishing memory goes back to when I was about four years old and my mother first told me a story about my grandfather fishing for brownies on the Black Lake, high above Lettergesh Mountain. The following day I made my first rod. My father listed me onto the roof of the shed and I fished away contentedly for branches. I will be forever grateful to my parents for giving me space when I was young and thereby enabling me to be happy in my own company. From a very early age, my mother allowed me to go up the Shanabeg River on my own because she could see that that was where my heart's desire lay and she didn't want to hold me back. Likewise, my father used to let me off down among the rocks just below our house in Mullaglas while keeping a sharp eye out from the top of the cliff. I fished regularly with him off Mongook Rock and he was by my side when I caught my first ever fish. That's correct. What was it? Pollock. Yes. You're good. And you were seven, Becky. I had a red mackerel spinner on the hook of a six-foot bamboo rod and it was a very special moment because my father was there to acknowledge my achievement and share in my happiness. That's very true, Paul. Yeah, that's very true. I must say it's lovely to hear it back now because that's exactly true what you say there. And the other thing there is my father had a great love for fishing so I didn't actually just get it from my mother's family. A lot of it came from my father who didn't fish on the rock but we spent hours talking about fishing and he'd ask me about it and it was really nice to hear it back. So he was delighted when I got to fish with him, you know. As you said, I do remember as well. That's correct. I quickly developed a deep respect and understanding of both seawater and freshwater from my two parents along with the rest of my family. My father always told us, never turn your back on the sea when you're fishing and we always made sure to heed his advice. We always felt safe in our own company and felt that the only time there was potential for danger was when we were joined by outsiders who wouldn't have been as tuned in as ourselves to the various types of danger. Interesting point you make there, Jackie. A very interesting point and that is exactly true because you could say we're almost, you know, inoculated from the real dangers of the sea because when you're in your own environment with people that you don't understand it like, you run along the rocks and it's just 30 foot far around you. Funny enough, I do remember one of my earliest memories of being on the sea, of the danger of the sea was, I must have been down with my sisters when we were down on the rocks and I was about, and we'd be down in the pools, you know, we knew nothing about the sea, but I was coming up, I must be, I'd say I might have been just starting school, but I was going up the cliff one day and I look back from the cliff, the first time I'd seen the danger of the sea, the first time I'd seen the black browning, the black blue water and the wave and the break, the waves breaking, it's the first time I felt fear. I couldn't remember before that being in the pools, you know, so the first time I realised, oh jeez, there's a big sea out there and it was incredible that it's so fixed to my, even to this day I can say, not that it was, but it shook me that there was, you know, the sea was a dangerous place. You know, when you're young, that's what I often think about when you're young, your shelter from, which is a really good thing. But the first time I'd seen the big sea, if you like, I'd heard people describe it, but it hit me so, with such clarity that I remember, I remember the colour of the sea, you know, but anyway, well I got over it of course. Experiential learning, Jackie, as they say. You cannot beat it, exactly, now you have it, yeah. I was 12 years old when Michael Viney, a friend of the family, bought me my first rod and reel which I quickly put to productive use on the Shenandoah River. During my early teenage years, Jimmy Farty from Lettogesh West was my fishing partner, but the first time I ever fished competitively, my cousin Tommy Kane and my uncle John Joyce accompanied me. It was 1964 and I was 14 years old. It was an action-packed day full of drama and intrigue and thereafter I was hooked forever, excuse the pun on that. I rolled the fish and he followed the flies but I got such a fright that I lifted the flies too soon and I lost him. I didn't realise that he'd have to eventually come all the way into the rocks, however both Tommy and myself did catch one small fish each and we both received a monetary prize, Jackie, do you recall? A pound. A pound. Yeah. I remember watching John McNamara that day casting a long line and then pulling the line very quickly. When I questioned his preoccupation with speed, he replied, when you're pulling fast and he's moving fast, you won't have to strike him at all. You might put a bit of context on that first, Jackie, what that meant, the significance of that comment. I had never seen a man casting so far and he had a floating line on which was, we, that time we used lines, they were silk lines so they kind of sank but it was, there's a bit of a difference between fishing for a sea trout and fishing for, this was a brown trout lake, that was back in Ockham and I was, I couldn't believe how fast, and he said, yeah, well he said he has to make up his mind when I'm pulling fast. So if it's a bad day, if there's no fish moving and you start pulling quick, you might entice him to come, you know, and you don't, you see, and if you're pulling quick, you don't strike, you know. If you're pulling, say for example, I'm explaining it here, where you're pulling quick, he comes up, he's hooked, but if you're pulling very slow, you've got to lift the rod or strike him. Yes, okay. So that's the difference and you have to decide, does he turn or does he, does he strike, does he, do you let him turn or like, but if he, it all happens in one second if you're pulling quick. As he said, he has to make up his mind quick, and he was right. Could we say that that was possibly the first bit of angling coaching that you got? It was the first time I met John McNamara on the lake because I fished with John as a fairly young lad and Willie Welsh, my other uncle Willie, but to me, John and John Mack were a new dimension because he fished a lot on them, on the mask and the carab, which was really interesting, you know, and he was a very nice man and very open, you know, very open with information because I was a, as I said, I was a young lad. You do say here, it's written here, that particular competition held on Aquaspec Lake had been organised by the Clifton Anglers Association and I'm proud to say I've been a member of that association ever since. I've always had great growth and respect for anglers like Percy Stanley, Paddy Crane and Tom Moran who helped me develop, develop over the years both as an angler and as a person. So that was lovely, Jack. That was very nice, yeah. Two years later, at the age of 16, I started gillying in Kylemoor with my uncle John Joyce. After work and evenings, we used to fish the Dabris River for white trout and it was often after midnight before I'd eventually get home. That's right. Mum and Dad didn't mind or... different time, Jackie? Well, sometimes my mother would come with me but I was, the ghost was the only thing I was afraid of coming back for, Shaun, of eggs. Yeah, that was, and coming down Turin Hill, Turin Row, with a bad break on the bike that... I was always afraid by passing Greenmound Gate and all that but it still didn't stop me. See, that was the problem. You were too drawn to it, as they say. Well, at the next time here, if fishing was my whole life at that time, I thought about little else. However, three years later, economic reality hit home and I took the boat to England like many of my contemporaries. During my twelve years over yonder, I did a little bit of sea fishing for cod off Deal in Dover and of course all my holidays at home were spent salmon fishing. That's correct, yeah. During those years, I missed the mountains, the sea and the bog as much as I missed the fishing. I met my wife Bernadette in England but the yearning to return home was always there and we both decided to return soon after our first son, John Peter, was born. It was very important to me that he would experience the same quality of childhood that I'd experienced myself. Sorry to say that there. When I returned to Rinneville in July 1982, I very quickly got back into angling again, fishing regularly for trout and salmon. During the early 80s, I fished in local competitions organised by the Clifton Anglers and listeners might wonder why is there no mention of Coultham at this point but of course, Coultham hadn't been founded yet. That's a very good point, yeah. We haven't spoke. That's very true. So that'll probably lead on. It's coming in now, yeah. The origin of the Coultham Anglers can be traced back to one of these Clifton Anglers competitions on Loch Fatha in the Roundstone Bog in 1985 when John Flaherty suggested that we should look into forming our own angling association. One year later, his idea came closer to being a reality when Sister Benedict approached the local gun club to ask them if they would like to lease the Coultham system which was part of the overall Kyle Moore system, that is Loch Muck, Loch Fee and the river. She was anxious to give locals some fishing on the river and her generous gesture made the formation of a club possible. In the sense that it's a bit like a football club having a home pitch. That's correct, yeah. We did spoke about it and John Joyce was delighted at that time because he always spoke to me. He made a few attempts to have a club. So you know, it just happened at the time that John Flaherty was always into fishing and Tommy Kane had come back from England and I was back and Brian Welsh was there. So we had a cohort, and Frank Mack of course, Tom Mack, you know, Frank and so that, yeah, that's very good. The foundation meeting was eventually held, where Jacky? It was held in the Bairdstead. It was indeed, in 1988 and the following people were present, Tommy Kane, John Welsh, Frank McNamara, John Flaherty, Brian Welsh and myself. That's correct. There was a big debate over the name but in the end the Coultham Anglers kind of came naturally and we all agreed to accept it. That's correct, yeah. You're not prepared to say any more than that? We actually had a look at what did the Coultham mean, you know. You probably could give a shot at that, what does Coultham mean? Well it kind of fell naturally because it was the Coultham River and we had the system, that was our main, even though like we fished on the other lakes, the Coultham was our main. Is that like the main archery? The main archery is a good point, yeah, you got to lock free and lock them up, you know. So that was in 1988 and then you say that over the past 14 years, that will be from 1988 to 2002 when this article was written, the Coultham Anglers have worked hard at promoting our most valuable resource. Anglers are primarily concerned with water and conservation and we fish the lake and rivers of West Connemara so we get great environmental insights into our beloved region. I just thought it was interesting that you said that you're primarily concerned and it wasn't with competitive stuff, it was with conservation. That is very true, I always look on fishing, it's not, you know, you look at it, it's more a spiritual thing to a certain extent, I'm not saying, I never actually fished, I do fish for the pot now and again, but it was never my aspiration, it was always the thing about the water and the camaraderie and the challenge as well, but never so much about, I would never be disappointed if I didn't catch a fish, like it was, I think I must have inherited something about that. So would you consider that every time you go out and you have the experience, so if the competition starts at 11 and runs to 5 and you have your 6 hours on the water in the way that you described there, that you're essentially a winner whether you technically come out on top or not? Yeah, yeah, well to be too bad if you only were, you know, you'd lose the whole point of the fishing if you were obsessed by the winning, you know. I mean it does happen, but at the same time I'm just saying, you know, it was never... Like the overriding factor? Not really, but I will say I do think competition is a healthy thing, you know, it's a healthy thing to be competitive. You haven't lost your competitive edge, Jackie, have you? I wouldn't say I have, no, because, you know, like I'm going grand, I remember a funny story like when we were, I just might as well tell you now because John Peters was involved with John Peters and when he was over in the, when he, you know, he was back in the hotel where we were fishing one day and I think it was Joe Crane or someone else, you know, where's, where's, what's Dad doing there like, what's your father doing, he's down there now looking, he's down there now, he said, and he's looking around, he don't give a damn and watch, you see, if he, if he, if Wigley, Wigley rises a fish and the next thing he goes super mad, you see, and I happened to hear it and I came up to, I said, he's only forgetting one thing, he does exactly the same thing himself. Back to that inheritance thing again, Jackie, yeah, it's great. I'll just continue for a little bit with this, it saddens me to say that there is a bit of neglect on many of Connemara's small rivers and as an association we're doing our best to exert a positive developmental influence in this area but it's a difficult task and you made that statement back in 2002, so has it, has it got any better in the intervening years or is it, is that statement as true today as it was then? Oh sure, of course it is, it is actually more relevant now, there's actually nothing, you know, like, it is sad, yeah, it is. So what are the mitigating factors? There's no, there's no money going into them, you know, there's no, there's no, it's not a priority by the governments to look after, to, the governments are not prepared to, they don't seem to realise that the water and the, you know, the water and, water and the land are so related and so, and, you know, they're an inaugural part of, of the whole ecosystem because what happens in the land, like, if you have a species in the land, you have a species in the water, it's all, you know, it's, it's, it's foolish, it's a bit naive for someone to tell you that they're not related because they are, I suppose the climate has changed really too, there's more pressure coming on everything now, like, say, if you get run-off, if there's more water coming, the run-offs come faster, that's how the rivers get damaged, if there's... The ecosystem then is affected big time. It's affected big time, exactly, it is affected, it is sad, yeah, but, like, you kind of have to, you can't always be looking on the negative, I don't know... Is angling an endangered sport? Well, it is, species-wise, you know, the, the, the brown-tailed otter species, if I throw the species and they're in decline, there was a very bad, big one in this year in Connemara, there was very few salmon last year in Connemara, you know, so there's no, you know, every, a lot of species that are in decline, including, even the fly-life is declining, you know, a lot of fish, you know, fish, if you were, if you, if the fly-life declines, well, that means the fish are more, they'll be more on the bottom, they won't be coming off the top of the water, so, that the lakes will be taken over by evasive species, like, you know, perch and roach and every kind of thing, you know, they're, they're, what they forget about in Ireland is that they're, they're pristine, fresh, they're wild brown-tailed otters, which is a big difference, of course, what we call the big, you know, the big problem is that there's no, you're talking some of the powers that be, they don't, they don't seem to realise that fly, wild fishing and cross-fishing are totally different, they're different species, you know, and we have an abundance of the, of the rare wild fishing, but it's not top of priority. Yes, I'll continue, Jackie, for the coastal anglers, we might come back to some of that later in the, in the conversation, the coastal anglers are also concerned with the welfare of people and improving the quality of people's lives, we want to broaden the base of angling throughout our region and ultimately improve the image and the status of our favourite sport, all kind of ties in with what you're saying there, we are experiencing some success in this, not least because the community we represent give us great support and make us feel very appreciated, and 20 years on from this article, do you, do you, do you still feel that the coastal anglers are greatly respected within local community here? Well, I think they are, Paul, actually, that's one of the nice things, and I will say, even this year now wasn't a great year for fishing, but I will say it was very, it was a very good year for the, for the coastal anglers, because, you know, some of us are getting towards the veteran stage, and we were very surprised this year, we had 10 or 12 of the younger lads now with the families, you know, you could say, like Alan Welch now has come on to the committee versus, you know, and you have, you know, Daniel, you have Jamie, you have, you know, Rick, Ricky's lad, and, do you know what, and a few lads, and a couple of the Clifton lads, you know, are my heir, we had nine, we couldn't believe it, it was nine or ten lads, so I was saying, it was, I was telling them when I said we were stepping back a little bit now from the, yeah, they could be organised, but it was very, you know, honestly, it was, I have to say, it was, and then you, it was very, it was very gratifying that we actually, that they are beginning to buy, you know, Pat Flaherty as well, and there's lots of, you know, the 11 lads, like Tommy Cain's son, David, and so, you know, much the same age as we were when we started the club. History repeating itself, Jackie, yeah. Well, it's kind of nice, because you think it wasn't going to happen, and all of a sudden, you know, you know, sometimes when people, they're moving into their parties, and their kids are coming up, all of a sudden becomes more, they realise, yeah, I have to say, in that, just in that, for that alone, I, it was a good year for the club, like. That's brilliant to hear. Yeah. And I know, I know that you, pretty high turnout for your, some of the juvenile competitions this year as well. Oh, yeah, yeah. The underage, you know, so, they're for three generations, Jackie, isn't that what you want? Well, that's very true. The intergenerational, so the intergenerational element within the club at the moment is, in your opinion, quite solid and strong, and you can see sustainability going forward. Well, it's not bad, you know, the thing about, the thing about it is, it's a difficult sport, like, you know, it is a sport as well as recreation. Yeah. It is not easy, like, it's not an easy sport to pick up unless you're kind of, one time it was completely handed down, Paul, but we did broaden the base of the club, and like, we definitely have broadened it into other, into families. But, as I said, I suppose the tennis, whether we like it or not, tennis was certainly, to a certain extent, a fairly elite sport, because you don't pick it up easily. Yeah. For example, say, for people take up fishing a bit later in life, it's not easy to, sort of, be at the level of the lads who do it all the time, because there's a lot of, as I said one time to my own lad, it isn't difficult, because there's a lot of small things going on. Probably the understatement of the year, Jackie. Every year we organise a number of local competitions, we hold regular meetings, and since the mid-nineties we've taken a special interest in coaching and developing our young anglers. So, everything you're saying is just reflecting what's in this article, so it's almost like time has stood still, isn't it, even though this article goes back over six years, which is lovely. This investment of time and energy has really started to pay dividends in recent years. In 1998, John Peter finished second in the All-Ireland Junior Championship at Lake O'Flynn in County Roscommon, and thus became the first ever Coultham Junior Angler to fish for Ireland in the inaugural World Youth Championships in Wales. In 2001, Daniel Welch, Sean Welch and Aidan Flaherty all made the Connacht Junior Team. Aidan came fifth in the intrapro individual event, and this achievement qualified him for the Irish Junior Team for the World Junior Championships on September 22nd this year. Jamie Flaherty came third in this year's Connacht Junior Cup on Bilbury Lake near Castlebar, and he will now fish for Connacht in the Junior Intrapros. We're all delighted with the success of so many of our junior members. So, it's just amazing the points you've made. And I mentioned them lads there now, I mentioned those lads already in the previous where we are fishing now, that's the that's that's very that's very gratifying. And I know that it might have been three or four years after that I remember doing a special feature with Alan Welch when he made the Irish Team. Oh he did it three times, yeah. And Alan is our secretary at the moment. Yeah, super angler Alan, yeah. That's that's a very positive thing. Since our foundation in 1988 the Coultham Anglers have affiliated each year to the Clout Anglers Federation of Ireland, and it is this affiliation which entitles their members to inter-qualifying competitions for a place on the national team. In 1995 Frank McNamara from Glashlan made history when he became the first ever Coultham Angler to represent his country at senior level in both European and World Championships. Ireland won bronze in this European Championship. In 1996 I finished eighth in the Connacht Cup on Loch Maske and fifth in the All-Ireland Intrapros on Loch Corrib. These two placings qualified me to fish for Ireland in the 1997 European Championships on Loch Conn, County Mayo, and you go on. So we can just see there how, you know, the advancement of the club. That's very true. And moving from club level to representative level, which is a huge thing in all sports, you know. Huge thing, yes. So I think at this point, Jackie, we might take a break. Yes. For maybe an ad break. And in part two, we'll just drive on. Just a little bit less in this article, which we might touch base with when we come back. And then everything that's happened to the best of your recollection in the last 20 years, we'll try and go through in the time that we're allowed. We'll talk to you again after the ad. Job Spot on Connemara Community Radio. King's Paper Shop Clifton are looking for part-time staff. 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Well what I meant about that, Willie was very cool with the fish. He could be out for hours fishing and not a sign of a fish. And yet when a fish came up to him Willie could wait for that fish to turn over. And he wouldn't pull too quick on him. That's what I exactly meant by that. So no more than any sport you need to have a temperament for the sport. Absolutely a temperament is one of the most important things. You might think people have a jumpy nature but if you're too jumpy you'll miss fish anyway, won't you? Yes, thanks to reason, yes. But temperament is one of the, in any sport. It's like if you're 14 yards from the goal and your temperament happens to be 0 a few times in goal. The ball should be sailing over the bar and the ball sails wide. And that goes down to temperament. I had the privilege back in the 1980s of great times for Rindvale football. We lost a few finals but it was a really enjoyable time. Obviously the sense of privilege that I played in that era with the men that were in it. You were one of those men. That's right, I did play that time. We were very unlucky. I remember playing with you. You were a chap and I was finishing up. When we were in the picture together I was nice. Would you say that the temperament that you gave expression to in relation to Getty football was an equivalent in angling? Or when you were angling did you go into a different mode entirely to what you were when you were a footballer? I think you are. It's a different sport. It depends on how things are going for you. Sometimes you can be very good over a period. But I do think what defines an angler is what he does when he sees the fish, when the fish comes up for the fly. It sounds mad but is he going sideways or is he coming, is he turning? If he's coming towards you, it stands to reason if a fish comes after you, chasing after you, it's not that you're mad. And he dives at the fly. Well, if you pull the fly, you're pulling it over his mouth. But if he's coming the other way, you can wait for him to drop down a bit and you drop the rod and you give it a pull. So it's like, I remember I was out fishing with a few lads in the World Cup. I was gilling them and there was a bit of wind in the morning. I knew the wind was dropping so the morning was very important and if the wind goes flat, the lake is very different. One of the lads with me, he was only fishing a few minutes, he hooked a nice fish. But he kept pulling hard, you know. I said, be careful, be careful. I said, don't be pulling so hard on the fish, you know. Because I was thinking about the wind dropping and all this. The fish in the morning would be vital, right? And he was pulling. He wouldn't let it be. Flipping fish gone. And he looked at me, he said, pull too hard. I said, you had all day to play him. We never seen another fish for the day. Wind dropped and that was it. He thought he was going to get farted when he hit him the first cast. I was like, that's what he did. He obviously wasn't coming from the same reservoir of experience that you were. Well he probably wasn't. That's what I'm saying, you know. You could have the coolest man in the world or something and they go cracked. The fish comes up over the water. A professional approach to angling requires great organisation and without this approach one has little chance of achieving the required levels of consistency. It's absolutely vital that rods, reels, lines, flies and nylons are laid out in order, thereby enabling the angler to adapt to whatever conditions are prevalent on the day. Experience has taught me the above and it has also taught me to concentrate on myself and not worry about the opposition. Interesting point. That's very good advice. It's as good today as it was that time. That's exactly what it is. If an angler is carrying any kind of emotional or psychological baggage into competition then he or she will almost certainly lack the kind of focus necessary for success. You could be talking about any sport here. Did I actually say that? You did. That was a great statement. It just stands to reason. Just go on a little bit more. Drinking alcohol the night before a competition is definitely not conducive to good angling because it dehydrates the body. Sleep, which I consider to be a learned discipline in itself, is also essential. One cannot be a good angler if one isn't getting enough sleep. I know at the time this was all a revelation to me in a sense because it was basically like you could have been talking about any sport. Exactly. I think that was the point. I think I had a renewed respect for the angler as a sportsman after I did this all those years ago which I've retained ever since and always happy to cover the Colton Anglers and sports roundups and all that kind of stuff. That is insight. It's very true because it's like trying to be like someone else. It's just you. Your brain works for you. You're only getting distracted. In any sport it's like a team going four or five points up. When I was in the championship you could see a fellow fish up and down the side and you just kind of blanked your mind off it. I suppose you could call that emotion. Could I just ask a question, Jackie? Is it fair to say that in the full on intensity of all out competition and high quality angling is there an ethos at play all the time that's second to none in terms of massive respect between the anglers and nobody interfering with anyone else or does it happen from time to time that there can be behaviour that leaves a lot to be desired? Of course there's behaviour that leaves a lot to be desired. It's very difficult. Teams don't always pull together. It's very difficult. In any team. Wow. No, no, no. And then some people might... There's people that won't share their flies. I'll show you. You see, fishing is complicated in that way. Like any team it's difficult. You could have seven or eight lads together that don't always pull together. Okay. As you said, you could refer it to all sports. Can I just ask you that? Did you ever find yourself in the position of being a manager of a team? Oh, I captained the Irish team, sure, in 2004. Oh, you did? That's after, that's a couple of years after. Yeah, probably, yeah, I did, yeah, yeah. So you didn't fish yourself, or did you fish as well? I did fish because one of our lads had to pull out and I had won the... It was 2004, but I had won the RL in that year, the world championship. Okay. So I was the next in line to fish, so my keeper was the vice-captain, he took over and I had to fish. And I did fish pretty good, yeah. What was the hardest aspect of managing that, of being captain of that team? I mean, did it affect the quality of your own angling? Ah, I told you, it's very difficult. Managing people, you see, is difficult. It's very difficult. Like, the problem was, when we were out in Spain that year, it was tough. I'm not saying it was that tough, but it was... The fishing was awful poor, like, it was awful poor fishing. And the heat, you know, because we were actually up near Lourdes, we went to Lourdes for a day, which was really nice. Wow, okay. Yeah, that I do remember. Did you get any luck out of it in the competition? Well, I tell you, it was the year after my mother died, so my mother, I did feel, I have to say, that Lourdes affected me a bit in fairness, you know, as a girl, which was nice in one way. Yes. You, like, you're in a situation where it's heat or fishing gear, the gear we had was not totally different. It was a different condition? Correct, yeah. You see, one of the weaknesses of when you start off to kind of fishing is practising in Ireland is useless for fishing on the continent, it's a totally different fishing. Okay. Fishing on fast, say, black water or brown water, and you go over to Spain where you have hot water coming down from the glacier, say, for example, in Spain, coming down from the Pyrenees. We were up in the Pyrenees. It's rice water. The fish they knew from here to the flippin' Belgians, to come there, they'd be gone. I remember one evening we were, that particular time, and this fella said, well, you come with me, because we don't go and practise, folks feedin' us. He just reminded me of the fellow with the cap on. So off we went one evening, the two of us fishing. I was always thinking of it afterwards, and that's where you're up in the mountains, they have the herds of cows going with the bells, and they shout out the clunk, the clunk, the clunk, you know, and all that. So we were walking along, and he was about 10 yards from the river. Well, he was, the river was from here, say, what would you say, maybe 10 yards, 15 feet, 10 feet from the river at least. They were casting, see. They stopped. So that's how far back from the river, what do you say, out of casting. So he was only letting the flies into the river, he wasn't letting the line in at all. As soon as the line tipped the water, they were gone. Incredible, aren't you? Now, that was some change for the likes of me, coming from where I came from. Difficult to adapt. Very difficult, yeah, yeah. It was incredible how we were able to do it, in fairness. So it's down to casting there, at just the end of this article finishes, where it says, I have to apply for a National Instructor's Coach's Badge in the near future, and you sat your final exams in Bristol in May 2001. This was in terms of the course of study on casting game. And then you took up a position at Renfrew House Hotel. That's correct, yeah. So do you want to talk just for a minute or two on that, and then we'll fast-track to 2016 before we run out of time, Becky, and we'll talk about your iconic achievements. Yeah, I got a National Australian Qualification, you know, and yeah, that's what I kind of took up as part-time. I did a good lot of timber work there for them as well, you know, carpenter work, but I did a lot of casting. But I was always very interested in it, I was really... So what are the kind of skills that come to... What kind of skills were you trying to teach them? What's the essence of casting in terms of what the process is? Well, the process is really, of the exams, is to teach in part, Paul. You know, like teaching to break down the cast. Like, you know, I think I'm kind of a knacker for teaching people how to cast. I could teach people to dance as well, and they are relative. Yeah, okay. But it's very true. Yeah, okay. But there is a relationship between casting and the rhythm, you know. I remember Etna, you know, Etna, that worked with me at the album with the Messiaen, and she was a great... Etna Hadigan? Etna, yeah. Yeah, yeah. She said, it's everything... You're almost like the flow of the river. Everything that's flowing slightly, you're good at it. You know, dancing, you know, singing, that type of thing. She said, it's almost like when you're singing and doing a song. She said, well, the flow of the river, she said, is in you. And it's the same with the casting. It's that sort of rhythm, you know, that thing. So, yeah, I did study casting in depth, in fairness. I did a lot of knowledge on it. About wind and its aerodynamics, really, you know. Did it help your own angling? Oh, absolutely. I would never have won the world championships only from my casting. Okay. A hundred percent, no. Well, let's talk about the world championships for a long time. Okay, yeah. 2016? 2016, that's correct, yeah. Yeah, well, do you... Just let the listeners know just where it happened and... Yeah, well, what it was, really, it was that I didn't... When it was the last year, I fished five or six times back in the early, in the early... No, that's what they called them, noughties. Not a very nice thing. But, yeah, and when Ireland got selected to hold the world masters in 20... That'd be 2014. So, we... They had qualifiers then. That was the world masters over 50. You know, that section, which is... All the good anglers are nearly over 50, anyway. But I'm just saying, so Ireland was hosted. So, they had a qualifier. We went through, I mean, how I... My... Whatever about winning it, but to qualify was really my... So, what did you have to do to qualify? Well, first of all, we had to go fish on... We fished on the carib. Good for the local lads, weren't we? Yeah. Tommy, Cain, John Flaherty fished it. Mike, I think. Yeah. And we all fished it. But, anyway, we had to come in the first... I think it was ten, I'd say. Ten, yeah. Ten, ten to get through to the final, you know. That was over two sessions. Okay. It was over two sessions. So, anyway... Was it based on length or based on weight? Oh, based on length, catch and release. Over... Well, the lengths were dropped, you know, in the championships. Like, if you were fishing on the mask of the carib and you were keeping fish that's over 13 inches. So, it was 200, which is eight, you know. Yeah. But the smaller ones, it was nearly as hard to catch the big ones. Yeah. But, anyway, I got through that. Most of us... We did all good. Some of us got through. I did pretty good. I came fourth or something like that. So, I think I came third overall in that first bit. Yeah. The second one, then, was for the All-Ireland. So, you had 40 lads fishing for six places, like it was. On the national team? On the national team, yeah. Actually, there was more. There was 12, 14, 14... Yeah, nearly 50. So, you had Ulster, Munster, and you had Linford. So, there was a big competition. And that was on nearly down. Oh, so this was the Interpose. This was for qualifying for the World Championship Team, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, and we already had the captain, Eamon Gabbin was selected the captain. He was down there that day. So, Lough Corrib, yeah? On Lough Corrib, yeah, down there. And down there, I forget it. Were you delighted that it was Lough Corrib? Well, I kind of was, in fairness. Even though that end of the lake was different to the Carnarvon end, which is the first one. But anyway, this is an interesting bit, anyway. Before the competition, I spent two days, I had the boat with me, and I used to go out around the bays down there. A couple of weeks before, and I don't think we were allowed to go out the week before. And I went out a day with my kid. He brought me out. I got nothing in the three days. I didn't get one fish. Wow. None fish. It was a hell of a time, honestly. But anyway, when I was, I was thrown below in the morning, and it was one of the, it was a cock that was in the boat. And we were all ghillies-like, you know? And he said to me, what do you want to do? I said, I don't know. I don't know. I've been out three days and I've got nothing. He said, not a bit. I know where there's a few fish. I said, it's fine. Here we go. But I do remember I had, I had, I knew it was small fish, so I prepared for small fish. I had five-weight rod and light tackle, five-pound, very light nylon, small flies. I wasn't thinking about small fish, not big lads, you know? So anyway, we went out anyway, and shapers, we had, there was a few fish getting caught, but I hooked one. I said, I want fish. Just one. Got him anyway. And I missed two more, another fella jumped over the top or whatever. I came in with the one, I was in seventh place only, only seventh place, and there was only four going through. That was the end of session one? Yeah. And how many more sessions were after that? There was just one. See, it's three hours, and then come in for a break. Okay, so you were just outside, you were just outside top four. Yeah, it was one, one to get from seventh, like seventh. But anyway, unless it changed now, some of the lads had done very well in the mornings. It was an incredible kind of thing that happened, but anyway. But I was standing up, and there was a lad from Choomba, he was passing down, he said, Jackie, he said, Richard Jordan, he said, I heard the black dabber, this particular fly was catching fish, he said. Jesus, I said, I didn't think so. So I moved on, went to the whole box, and I found this fly, a black dabber, like a black dabber. And the hook was rusted, so I filed it. I had a lady's nail filer, as you would, of course, on the lake, you know. Preparation is paramount, Jackie. Yeah. I sharpened up the hook, and I went out in the session. The first cast I, and I had, I caught two fish, I caught two fish on the, on the black dabber, and I, I had been, I had caught two or three fish earlier in the year on a fiery brown dabber. But what do I do? I tied one myself, smaller size, with the exact same material, and I got two more fish on that. I got four fish in the second session. And the boys in the morning that got the fish, they blanked the second day, which came in, and they come in in fourth place. Just made it. Just made it, yeah. Yeah. And the rest, you could say, is almost the same. And then, so you made the Irish team for the World Championships. That's correct. And were they held in Ireland? Well, they were held in Norway, yeah. Oh, on Loch Arb again? Well, we fished, we fished Loch, we fished, Loch Aina, the corridor, Loch Fee and Loch Muck in 2016. Okay, so how many... Oh, they come out here and check the lakes a lot. You were competing in a team event as a member of the Irish team? We were four anglers, yeah, four anglers, in a reserve. But you were also competing in individual capacity? I was, yeah. Correct. Did Ireland, did the Irish team win the World Championship? No, we came third. We got bronze. Bronze. That would have been a bad luck, because we kind of wished we could have won it, but we killed most of the lads. I know this insult. I can't say it. Nerves, nerves, the people. Nerves. Some of them, you'd think that a 50-year-old man wouldn't be nervous fishing. So what kind of mistakes will an angler make in the heat of battle due to nerves? Could you give the listeners just an example of maybe... He won't be concentrated, he's not, he won't make, he'll make bad decisions if you're really nervous. Well, it seems to me just the way you described there in the last bit, you know, you were given a tip and then you just made a series of really good decisions, which brought you in fourth. That's correct. So you had the composure. You're absolutely right. Well, I'll give you... One of those fish, the last, the fourth fish, the fourth fish I did catch that day, that's why I was more proud of that than to tell you the truth, that was... This fish came up to me under the... He kept following me under the boat. He wasn't a big fish. Now, I didn't stomp. I don't want a very good big fish. But this... And the fish came up to me, right, and he flew up like that, but then he flew out from under the boat and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came back and he came 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