Tiffany Lien Podcast Interview

In the interview, Tiffany, a former secondary educator and co-owner of Tutor Doctor of San Diego County, discusses the current education system. She reflects on the quote by John D. Rockefeller about wanting a nation of workers rather than thinkers and how it relates to the Career Technical Education Program. Tiffany emphasizes the importance of classical education and critical thinking. She also mentions trends she has observed, such as the decline in assigning homework due to mental health concerns, the decline in overall learning, and the positive aspects of online learning during the COVID-19 pandemic. Tiffany talks about the existence of individualized schools and the benefits of having options in education. However, she acknowledges the challenges faced by teachers in catering to different student needs. When discussing how American schools can foster free thinkers, Tiffany advocates for massive reform, suggesting that state and Common Core standards should be the baseline and th Hi there. My name is Christopher Leon. I am a 17-year-old student currently in the 11th grade. Today I will be interviewing a professional in the realm of education, so who am I here with today? Thank you, Christopher. My name is Tiffany, and I'm a former secondary educator, and I am a current co-owner of an education company called Tutor Doctor of San Diego County. We provide one-to-one supplemental education for students of all ages, all grades, and all subjects. Awesome. Well, thank you for meeting with me today. My pleasure. So I'll start it off with a somewhat loaded question. John D. Rockefeller, the former businessman and entrepreneur in America, was a big fundraiser of the current education system in America, and it is believed that he had once said, I don't want a nation of thinkers, I want a nation of workers. What do you think about this? That's quite an interesting question there. You know, it's interesting. The first time I heard this quote was six or seven years ago. I actually heard it from the principal of Torrey Pines High School. Being in my profession, I try to show up for certain events, and in this instance, the principal was sharing how the school was going to start something called the Career Technical Education Program, where students can not just be stuck in the regular school track, but they can actually broaden their education by learning things like engineering or culinary arts or anything automotive design, anything that they're interested in, and there would be a whole pathway for them to go down. And so I thought that was an interesting take on education, but in some ways, I felt like that quote was almost in line with the program that they were trying to start, because those type of programs, while it can be interesting for students to learn something different, in a sense, it is just training them up to be a, quote, worker. So ultimately, my view of education is that it should take more of a classical approach, where students learn how to think, and they should be critical thinkers, and then they can then apply that critical thinking to any part of education, any field that they wish. That's definitely a key part of education. So I'll ask you another question here, and that's, What trends have you seen in education since you have been a teacher and co-owner of Tutor Doctor San Diego? That's a great question. I've seen a lot in the 13 years that I've owned Tutor Doctor. In my early years, I saw a lot of parents that were highly ambitious for their students to do well, and understandably so, many of them were not from here. They came from other countries where education was the ticket for them to get here, and so I really could appreciate where they were coming from, but it didn't always serve the students very well. There was a lot of pressure put on students, a lot of pressure for them to achieve. Now, I see it's almost the opposite, and I see quite a change within the schools. Many schools are not assigning homework anymore, and the reasoning, I can understand, is for mental health. After COVID, you know, mental health was on a decline, and I think a lot of schools stepped back and said, You know, it's probably not fair that students are in school for most of their day, and then they have to go home and face another few hours of homework, and it's a grind, and we need to let up on them. So I do appreciate that. As a result, though, I do see a decline in students' overall learning and their ability to perform on tests and things like that. But, you know, speaking of COVID, and this was very interesting, a lot of students struggled during that time of having to learn at home, but one positive thing that came from that was there were many students that actually thrived in that kind of environment. They thrived being able to be more autonomous in their education. They were able to choose when they wanted to get up in the morning and do the work. Some students would hurry up and finish their work and then go on and pursue things that they were interested in. They would learn in a different way. And I think that caused educators to look more at online learning and to see the possibilities with that. So that has been one good thing because I strongly believe that education is not a one-size-fits-all for every student. Students are very individual, and so should education. That's so true. Students each have their own unique talents and identities, and schools should be able to help them flourish in those. So another question that I have for you is have you seen any individualized schools that are flourishing and successful? I see a ton of schools that are not the traditional model. And, you know, it's interesting. Just the other day I was scanning a Facebook thread, and I look at those just as part of my profession to try to stay current and in the know with what's going on in our area. And there was a North County parent's group where a mom said, sadly, her little first-grade daughter, as young as first grade, she was being bullied at school. And she was in the traditional public school, and the mom just came to realize, you know what? This is just not for us. Like, we've tried. We've tried every avenue. We've talked to the teachers, the administrators. It's just not changing. And so she was asking other parents if they had recommendations for other schools. And I was astonished at all the responses mom got. There were so many schools they listed that are not the traditional public schools. Anything from homeschool to a hybrid school where they do half school in person, half at home, charter schools, really small schools I haven't even heard of before that really have a unique bent, a unique niche that they focus on. And I was encouraged by it. I know that's controversial. Some educators don't like that we have all of this choice. But my view is that having options is always a good thing. Yeah. Have you seen any drawbacks or hindrances with these individualized schools or nontraditional school methods? You know, not so much in the schools themselves, but I do believe if we were to have reform in our public schools today, if we were able to offer more unique and creative ways for students to learn, I think there would be challenges. And I have to hand it to teachers. They have such a hard job. And I think, you know, as a former teacher, I think all teachers are just made of gold, right? Their job is just so difficult. And as it is, they have to work so hard to individualize just their own little classroom, right? You can have students that are on the high end. They've got to challenge them. You can have the struggling students. They've got to cater to them. You've got the students in the middle, and you've got to make sure they don't slip in the cracks. You have students where English is not their first language, and then you have students who may be on IEP plans. They have exceptionalities. And it's all down to one teacher to be able to teach all these different levels. And there's just not a lot of resources for them. There's not a lot of support. So that alone would be a huge challenge right now if we were to have that kind of reform. And I'll finish with one question. What my whole podcast is centered around is how can American schools educate people to become free thinkers and not just a society of mindless workers that many believe Rockefeller initially wanted with the education system? Yeah, great question. And I don't want to throw Rockefeller completely under the bus here because I do think he served some good. There were at that time in America's history, there were kids that weren't going to school at all. They were working on their parents' farms. They didn't grow up educated. And so what Rockefeller did was help those students who were underprivileged, who didn't have the same opportunities. He did help them get to a place where they could be educated. So kudos to him. But I think that was almost 200 years ago now. It was a long time ago. I think we need massive reform in American schools. I don't have all the answers, to be honest. I can pinpoint the problems, but I see the problems. You know, it's okay to have state standards or even Common Core standards, but that should just be the baseline. I think there is so much more that could be offered to students, so many more creative things that students can learn and different pathways that they can go down. And I think, thankfully, technology is making that possible. And so I think we need to get out of the stuck 1900 model of education that we had and really make some drastic changes. So, again, I don't have all the answers, but what I do is I see the problem and I just come alongside families to support them, knowing that students all learn in different ways and they may not learn from their teacher the way the teacher is teaching. And so that's why we have a team of tutors that come alongside and help students in a more individual, one-to-one way. So that's what I would think for regarding Rockefeller. Awesome. Well, thank you for meeting with me today. It was a pleasure speaking with you. All the best to you. Thank you.