Soph's Podcast

The transcript is a conversation between two friends discussing the friend's journey of starting a children's clothing business. The friend started the business in Bali after moving from New Zealand due to COVID-19 restrictions. They wanted to fill a gap in the market for affordable yet stylish kids' clothing. The business faced challenges with product sizing and manufacturing in Bali, leading to customer complaints and logistical issues. Despite these challenges, the friend learned valuable lessons and continues to navigate the complexities of running a business in Indonesia. and a testing testing yeah probably so wait hold on let me just get them to this line is on I'm recording good all good testing when the building this is literally my shabby setup I have seen but we're here you've got your guinea pig I am with so my one of my closest friends best friend business partner in one of my businesses but I'm not here to talk about that I'm here to talk about your business okay for ages I butchered that instead of to go did you know everyone does and then you said it one man oh it's got a unit yeah what does it mean it's in the Hatha tried but it's got differently because it was taken yeah and tell me why you started it so started in 2022 must be when Ziggy we first moved over here during copas and I was like what am I gonna do here in Bali like well you know what it's all right we were in New Zealand we're stuck there yeah you guys had like a psychotic lockdown there right yeah so we we were living in China and we couldn't get back to China and we already had a property here with my ex dog and dog and we were like where do we go next we can't we couldn't leave New Zealand at the time and like we couldn't leave unless we were like if you think you weren't coming back in yeah like you have to make a one-way back into China all our stuff was in China and we came over here and yeah we sort of set up and I was like I need to do something because as you know if you're not doing anything here it's a train ride yeah I started it and I was like I really want to start something I felt there was a real gap in the market for kids where I really looked up to like nature baby and like that organic cotton natural fiber and so I also wanted it to be a little bit more affordable and and like yeah I just really wanted to have that like middle market because it was like the cheap also cooler yeah a bit more not quirkier but like I don't know what the word would be like my stuff with that more out there no I think it's super edgy yeah our children are coming out I can this is mine oh hello yes darling that means they're not at all pick your crust up off the floor okay go put it in the sink and then go back in we're just recording now only a few more minutes I will be me treat treat fries I love us let's go okay oh what we use that as well oh hello Ellen because I want to turn on the microphone we're recording now so put that there then you can come back out for treats okay you guys mean so good I goodbye um but I yeah I haven't been in there the whole time in a minute oh my god everything was silent for a good two hours keep going um so I wanted to be like elevated essentials that you could dress your kids in but yeah I've really looked up to like a few brands and then I wanted to be like that so yeah when you when you have the idea how long was it from when you have the idea to when your first collection went live oh my god so I don't know if you know that but I started when Ziggy was six weeks old I started these baby carriers who's in the photo no I'm holding Ziggy and like a baby but I started these you know I don't regret yeah I literally lost one of our children yeah one of them yeah I was like how do I even tie this I got the mate yeah and I started with that didn't sell I'm sure there's so much stuff in New Zealand I know but it's getting it over here yeah you know what I know a girl in Dubai side note who has started a baby carrier company and I followed them on Instagram for quite a while and there are so many world regulations on safety on baby carriers but they have to go through all of the testing I think you wouldn't want to get that wrong like it'll be really bad we had like I didn't know how to dress them myself and I'm trying to sell them like you can't be doing that and then I was selling swaddles too yeah I didn't even know how to swaddle my own baby but I was selling swaddles and everyone was saying like a safety thing yeah and I was like I've got to move away from this like so anyway got all the stuff in New Zealand you know want some swaddles and wraps I've got about a hundred pieces per color per style but yes started with that put that on hold moved over to Bali when Ziggy was two mm-hmm and that's when I was like I actually really want to do the kids stuff like that properly and yeah I started that I really wanted to be like the elevated basics like just day-to-day stuff yeah kids could put on and it wasn't like even though we did a lot of like the embroidery like we've got the intricate pieces that are like hand embroidered like we still do a lot of pieces yeah but it was more like the t-shirts and the pants that you're just throwing I always found when I was dressing my kids when they were little you either have a really beautiful brand that you know $50 or $60 or $70 a shirt and you're kind of scared to take them to the playground in those and then you had Kmart or Target or you know what I must have spent for whatever the lower like quality brand was that you kind of put them in for daycare but there was nothing in between that you were comfortable to put them in every day but they look really good they didn't look like they were wearing their daycare clothes all the time I think that's why you've like an extra time I guess yeah because your kids are freshening the clothes every day right so you're sort of not wanting to put them in the hand embroidered stuff day-to-day but then you still want the nice pieces yeah this is the third child coming out of the bedroom hi darling oh well done yeah we're reporting you to go back in well come say hi to folks behind her come into the can I'll order cookies in a minute we're recording how do you stand in front of the camera don't touch it okay go back in I guarantee it's mine next time how do I anyway we'll cut that out we'll be cutting a lot out yeah okay that's kind of where it's done I've said I've said go into the other room and you're recording now seriously shut that door please literally no one wants to hear my mum voice I'll pull out mine okay so you started it and how long was it? take the baby wraps out of it and how long was it? We're going to cut that out. So Ziggy was two that's when I really started to like yeah properly start it got a website actually no I think I already had the website but I really pushed it in Bali yeah so what three years five now three years I guess you would have also had two years of knowing what you didn't didn't like with kids clothing but two years of buying clothes for these like and what we're holidaying yeah yeah the fabrics that sort of yeah last and don't last yeah and what I wanted to do okay and what you put your kids in every day okay so when you kind of started to really get it going yes it would have been what pretty 22 yeah yeah okay nice okay and what I mean starting business is not for fainthearted you know that like it's taste and you have to kind of start unless you've got like a billion dollars buying you have to start small and you have to I have to build and you know put all the hard yards in yeah and you know what that's like have you ever had any of like total what the fuck moment like what am I doing why have I done this why have I started like what's wrong with me where do I start absolutely I'm in our first proper collection we're doing like knitwear and it was just tricky to start with me where I know you've had any web struggles since I've known you never learning with a new recollection with like eliminated that a lot now like we'll only do a couple of pieces in a collection now like I will just do like a jersey now because the we're here everything whereas in China production we don't we're all we've produced hundreds in here but in China everything's like manual machines whereas yeah if you go into any of the factories here it's hand knitted machines so it's very which I kind of like it I've sat with you before I need to notice you see something where and you're like that's not made here that's made in China held by the quality of knitting you can see it and you can see it's like actually hand done which I which I really like but the sizing can go that rogue and we had the first collection we did I think I think there's probably 90% of the collection was knitwear because I love dressings again nowhere and it came back just the sizing was like it was like newborn but it was like for a doll like a hundred days yes and then when you've got a baby with nappies yeah oh yeah I remember saving it out I mean it oh shit this is so did you get complaints oh my god yes and how did you deal with it we kind of like I'm so sorry we had a run of small sizing like I'll give you a refund is like well how did you hand walk through that that would have been quite daunting yeah so obviously my child at this point was out of nappies and I wasn't thinking about sending out like a six-month-old pair of knitted shorts and they're trying to put it over a nappie or even when a nappie expands absolutely and they're like you've got like a I mean it was so bad and I was so mortified and it kind of set you back yeah if you're dealing with especially in Covid freight was so high and it's like you're sending back like orders and you pose it and it was just a nightmare so that was a massive learning curve yeah you would I mean I guess at that point in the business as well you're everything your customer service you're everything shipping logistics like wearing all of those hats would have been so stressful especially with a rogue order like that lesson learned huge lesson learned I know that's something you'll be your challenge what has been your biggest challenge like obviously that's a big one but like overall what's your in business yeah yeah I mean aside from your personal life and your ex-husband I was gonna say going through a divorce through navigating that honestly I think just operating a business out of Indonesia yeah like yeah just you know what it's like like you're now doing a business here it's really challenging you've got different cultures like I really remember I think I think it softened me a lot doing business here because they're such beautiful but very sensitive people so funny you say that because my background is Dubai which you know and if anything it's hardened me because dealing with the Arab market and the influence of different cultures is completely the opposite doing business here is a really you know right it's like having everyone's really beautiful to soften they're not aggressive they know what they want and they know what they need but they're very passive about it where people need all the same Dubai completely but setting up a business in a foreign country as an ex-pat when you don't have rights and local rights is really tricky it's definitely not so faint-hearted no way and you can deliver something in a way you honestly like how I speak to you Chloe like just say to dad like Chloe can't do it like that but that will really upset someone yeah someone and I think that has been honestly one of the biggest challenges for me is learning how to manage people yeah yeah and you've got a warehouse here right you've got production and you've got and like talk me through what that looks like in terms of setup so many people I know make in China well they design here making China ships in China so it's like very much third party logistics route there whereas yours is all centered in Indonesia you've got an office shop all of that going on yeah all in-house so it's with an office we started literally out of my villa but now we've grown to offers like we started I think that's just me and my head of production who's been with me since the beginning now we've got about a team of even then that office we've got staff at the shop yeah and yes so in our office we think everything out of our office we've got the stock room we do all our quality control out of there we've got a handful of makers they're all quite we don't necessarily have large large factories we're going into that now but with very particular with who we work with so we we make sure like it's as ethical as it is and yeah we're working with like really good people but I think the hardest thing right now is where it's such a growth that it's like we're in between we could go to China yeah but we don't want the volume and we don't necessarily want to but then we're limited to fabrics in Bali we're limited for machinery just a fact note on that from what I understand about Bali having lived here for a couple of years or Indonesia in general the import tax is quite high so from you from your side importing a fabric in just to be able to produce and ship from here is really tricky because there's a hundred percent tax on fabric and a hundred percent tax on pricing right it's like anything I've made an ASOS order and it was it cost me a hundred percent of the ASOS order to get it but that's why the problem exists for fabric and trimmings and buckles and belts and all that kind of stuff yeah we're trying to do a lot of our trims now out of China since again we're so limited yeah but in terms of fabrics we've got about two suppliers we can use and again when you're in a place like Bali it's every other man and woman is using the same so you want to be different yeah it's at the stage now where we're like we could go to China for volume but we're not quite there same we are but then it's like logistically moving everything yeah higher operation yeah and we've finally got a good didn't you would like is that on the horizon after what happened recently maybe not let's get off you had a bit of a glitch in some Chinese production yeah yeah in China but it's sort of at least you've got you've got your staff you've got quality control you know what you're doing like it's very much under your watchful eye I think in China there's that element of hoping that everything is right in terms of quality control and everything like making sure yes you're not there every day and they're not your team they're part of a factory yeah very different operational people but yeah yeah yeah I think it might be a bit more smooth sailing now for all the problems here yeah yeah I know and I know yeah it just keeps going down I'm very much what what I know you've had some like total a great celebrity ordering from you I mean this week alone you've been chatting to Rosie Huntington Rosie Huntington what's her last name Wiley Huntington is it Whitley or Wiley she's so coming up but Jason Statham's wife we love um but what what's been your total like century moment with the brand and that might not be it sending out like the Kardashians and stuff but what is that for you do you know what and this is so sincere like when I see celebrity kids all that we're in the stuff it's so cool but when I'm like down at Times Beach we're on in Chingu and there's like kids running on the beach with our clothes on like that is always for me a little bit more exciting like yeah yeah like just people you don't know who haven't gifted who haven't like not me like a friend my kids always wearing it but like people who legitimately bought from you you have no idea who they are and I saw this woman the other day just driving around our area and she said and oh gosh she would have been like eight or nine months pregnant and she had like one of our big oversized tees on no way it was like dreams ago and I was like it's me but I get excited by that yeah I get more excited by that in person seeing someone yeah that makes total sense yeah it's like the people who've seen you heard about you found you online yeah and one of your ads we get like a lot of people messaging and being like like our favorite kids wear brand of all time and just like those messages you don't ever think you'll get to that place and I'm like that's so nice I love that yeah that's the part that makes it really worth it yeah yeah right so talking about kids you've got Vicky she's almost six she besties with your besties with my girl Henley and how do you find balancing motherhood business relationships and also as a side note to this you've got this business so you've got darling the blow-dry salon with me you've got a unit that we're sitting in that you've just built from ground up you've got a series of four shops sitting under it that you're waiting to rent out you've got your house as well which is next door mine which you're doing a full renovation on you've got so much going on like that's a lot to take on I'm coming from someone trust me like I know when you take on too much stuff but how do you balance it all I thought I don't yeah I don't I come for you and I'm like Chloe I feel like most days I don't but like at the same time you've got no choice but to keep going like I've got Ziggy and I've got all this going on that I've got no choice but to keep going yeah this year and a half has pushed me in ways that like wow it's been oh my god it's been so challenging do you feel like you've kind of been a stable though in all of that so consistent like you can turn off from your personal life and on to work and kind of focus on it and know that it's like not you know going to fluctuate to severely and it's kind of been a stable there yeah yeah it's been truly when I get up I'm like if I don't push through on on this business because it's got so much potential and it's got so much growth happening right now if I don't push through like I just have to and like I've had so many moments and particularly lately that I'm not proud of and I mean it's been truly like really tough but yeah if I didn't have Suku right now I actually don't know where I'd be it's been like Ziggy as well yeah and Suku it's been my eternal purpose truly it sounds a bit cheesy no I know I can see it yeah it's the same with me like the kids are my purpose I do everything for them and also work is a stable like you know that you have to go to work you know you have to switch on and be someone else yeah or whoever you are and focus and then you can step away from that and deal with everything on fire around me all right yes it's hard it's so hard yeah right it's part of juggling the business isn't it you just like sometimes you go oh god I'd so love to be employed by someone but you could switch off at the end of the day I've thought that so many times like I've been self-employed now for ten years and I think for me at the end of it often I've been like I just wish I took a paycheck and I turn my and I'm like no I've given myself enough freedom and flexibility in my life to do what I want now and to be there for the kids during the day in the morning in the night like to be able to switch off for you know half an hour here and there an hour whatever it is it's yeah I think it's definitely worth it it's harder in some points but it's easier I think I took on a bit too much with the apartment the house the divorce I mean you've started a business in another country but then you've gone ahead and built your house in another country and you don't speak the language and trying on darling we opened a salon neither of us the hairdressers just in case you're wondering at all but the area that we live in if they had no salons it had we were driving in basically I had hair loss issues and you didn't like washing your own hair and neither did I so we were driving into another suburb to get our hair done and then we realized there was nothing out our way so we thought why don't we start something and then the idea snowballed and suddenly we have a full-blown hairdressing salon with more locations to come and it's been really well received but at the same time I remember googling and I'm sure you did what do hairdressers need in their caddies and I was like oh fuck they need a heap of stuff it's not just a brush and a blow-dryer they need like 16 different sizes of brushes and different hair straighteners and clips and like it was a lot to take on didn't like the filtration system because in Bali it's out of water so hard and it's like yeah I mean that's been a huge learning purpose yeah yeah I mean I thrive on learning new things that is my I don't even know if it's a personality type but my way of living if I'm not doing something new then I'm I'm like complacent or struggling and I think for me I'm like the minute I knew opening that I was like sweet I'm gonna I'm gonna embody a hairdresser like just let me okay I'm washing my own hair and I need that when we go away I thought that on the food I was like my hair dryer and which I haven't used it probably doesn't work same I know I've not pulled it out of but I think sometimes the best businesses are born from a passion or a need that you have you might not necessarily be that like a hairdresser or I don't know whatever build up but you know we're not done we're going so good girl I mean are you done no no go back in what you need a drink um that's so sort of me who's just getting water behind us she's fine but that's okay and as a founder and as such I don't know a founder and entrepreneur are my favorite terms like everyone who starts a business calls themselves an entrepreneur and everyone who starts a business calls themselves a founder yes we are founders yeah but as the founder of Sufu or founder of any business what is one thing that you thought you had to do or embody but you just don't give a shit about now oh my gosh like looking a certain way or like looking polished everyday like because you own a not a fashion brand that's not what I own I don't look at myself like that but I think I think I used to think oh I'm in I'm in fashion I need to look a certain way and now you see me most days hello you're in activewear most of the time all the time I'm like activewear label yeah I'm like I should actually I wake up and I'm like I want to do my pilates I want to get my work done because by the afternoon I want to be with Ziggy because I don't have all the time that's like my one thing I say in the morning I'm like I'm gonna do all my work this morning and do a workout and help him be a present mom I get to the afternoon I'm like a fucking scarecrow like don't come near me I have so much work to do no I know but like it's just like I just you have very good intentions in the morning and I know I mean I get so and your psychotic cat has just come out hello just join the club come out so I have a cat that's unwell it's a Bengal and it looks beautiful it's in the food now anyway um yeah I think it was like the looking a certain way I know that sounds a bit strange because I was a woman's wear but it was sort of looking like you hit I don't know how to explain it was like I thought I had to look a certain way every day yeah yeah I think that would probably be it yeah I always thought as a founder you needed to work like 24 hours a day seven days a week which I did at the start that's what I thought you had to do and to be fair I'm so glad I did because it paid off but it was definitely not what you have to do with my father not harder what yeah what if I'm not happy you have to work really hard at the start but it's yeah there's you definitely need to rest and and rebuild yeah and go from there but that was one thing that I thought that this is kind of before like social media and all these people being like and a founder and this is my day in the life of me and I get up at 5 a.m. and all of that kind of stuff yeah not for me total like second to limit them sometimes I can get away with doing like two or three hours a day with this but I mean obviously we've got other businesses yeah I can now I've got to go to quite a good place and we've got such a great team that I'm doing two or three hours a day on that but that's pretty good yeah that I mean some days more some days less yeah the cat feeding me pizza oh my gosh yeah chilly no that's for your teeth no because you'll ruin your teeth no that is what okay we'll then go away do they have in the book of raising children how to thrive your children that should be a whole chapter I feel like it's a myth of course a book seriously like a life skill to be able to like I'll buy you a kind of surprise please go away just any form of treat go away leave me now and I'll give you anything you want million dollars done and what's one tool like hack or haven't you swear by but it could be anything self-awareness piece of day-to-day life like for me I'm gonna say it's a minus getting my inbox cleared before I start my life like in the day like I just I go on top of all of my work and I feel really adjusted to start the day before device starts before my days probably start like I'm a serial emailer so I clean my inbox yeah that's my hack love that watch goes I'm not as good as doing that I love a voice note well I feel like I get so much shit done can I swear yeah you're gonna cut it out I've sworn a thousand I feel like you can get so much done over a voice note like I'm always and I feel like yeah I've never said about you always I feel like if I can't explain it in a text if it's like too complex or if it's like a life update for a friend I haven't spoken to a lot I spend a 10 minute one that I pressed it with like listen to me on 1.5 speed I'm okay like my voice sounds okay on fast speed but not like a day-to-day I use it on everything it cuts my time in half I feel like I've also found when I voice it at my staff and Bali they can understand it better than a message yeah so I find that form of communication I do think with voice notes there's an element of getting like you know when you get a text from someone you're like oh are they in a bad mood like that's quite short I'm a short texter sometimes I have to often be like I'm not in a bad mood sorry I was just on the go or I was on my scooter but if you voice note maybe let the cat out we'll go here we'll eat the food I'm going to put it in Ziggy's, I'm going to ask it, it's a little brat Ziggy, you've got to look after the cat for a bit. They're screaming. Okay, wait, cut. I feel like we've got to go, I'm just going to be in a re-do. What? No, it's okay. It's like trying to do something with three children and a cat in the house. Yeah, okay, so you're a voice noter in that. I'm a voice noter. I never would have thought that's a hack, but you're so right it is. It's such a hack. I get so much more shit done voice noting than I do anything else. Yeah, that makes total sense. I guess you can just like pump out your action list to all of the people you need to. Yeah, I know some people who are totally against voice notes. They're like don't voice note me, send me an email, send me a text. I get that. Sometimes it's like time consuming to listen to them. I agree. But I love nothing more than a voice note from say Erin, my friend at home, or someone who's like here's a ten minute voice note and I'll go for a walk or I'll play it when I have a car. I'll play it in the car or I'll have it sitting beside me at my desk. Yeah, I voice note you probably 500 times a day. Yeah, you do. Hello, Chloe. Hi, what do you think about this? I'm like I just saw you a minute ago. Literally, you're in my house again. No, I mean that's so fair. Raising a family, Ziggy, half raising my children, what is one thing that you wish people knew about starting a business? From a place of privilege in Indonesia and the same with Dubai, I think we have a lot of help here. Our systems are set up for a working parent I guess here as well. But what do you think, like anyone listening, what do you think, what do you wish they knew? Oh my gosh, that it's chaotic and it's humbling and I was packed quarters with Ziggy on my hip and I just feel like it's not picture perfect and it's not what people think. On the positive, I would negative. I just think that the freedom when you're running a business that you get and like I can pick my hours and I can be a mum when I need to be and let's start this again. I don't remember how to answer this one. Hold on, cut. Let me look at my notes. It's a hard one but it's like, yeah, that's one I'm a bit stuck on. Mine would be that you don't have to do it all, like things can wait. I always used to send emails while my kids were like trying to eat their dinner but people can wait. That was always mine but I'll go. So what do you wish people, like starting a business, what's one thing that you wish people knew about starting a business or any part of the business while raising a young family I guess? Because you've still got a young child technically but you're still sick. You've been doing this for a few years now. We have a lot of help here in Indonesia. We have help in Dubai where I was from. That makes it a little bit easier but there are so many people out there who don't have the help that we do. What would you say, you know, you wish they knew? Yeah, I guess like even though we do have that help and we're so lucky, I guess I'd say there's like no separation between mum mode and business mode. They kind of all get woven in together. Yeah, I think that's probably what I'd say is we're so supportive here. We've got Dalby who's, we're so lucky and yeah, it's just there's no separation between the two. And would you say make the separation or just knowing that there is no separation when you're starting out and you just have to like roll with it and find the time for both where you can? Yeah, and I think, yeah, I think as they get older it does get easier in a way. Yeah. But then it does get harder in certain ways. Yeah. No, I get that. I understand. I've got a child coming up. Oh my God. I know. But I think it's really nice for our kids to see us running businesses and watching us fail and watching us cry or have joy or whatever it is. I mean, owning a business isn't for everyone and there are people who are employers and people who are employees. My husband's an employee and I'm an employer. We're cut differently there. I would rather my kids see me struggle with business-related entrepreneurial issues than see me crying because my boss was a twat or I had a hard day in the office. Like, I just think that's personally, that's me and that's how I'm cut. But I definitely think it's nice for them to be able to see struggles, see wins, see, you know, watching my kids watch me build the salon with you and then being like- Working in the painting. Yeah, we got in the painting. Like, they would sit on all the dusty chairs while we were down there. They'd play shop almost, which was quite cool. It was so cool. They understand it and then my husband, my eldest, is starting to actually really understand business and what it takes. Like, he wants to own a shop when he's older and a big toy store and- Definitely, that was your kid. Yeah, I've been talking him through, you know, what it costs to buy the stock, the rent, having staff, all of the things like that. Like, you know, you have to sell the products here, you can't just take the money and think you're rich. You have to reinvest it and all of that kind of stuff. It's a real learning curve for them and I think they're like- Definitely. I think it's so good that they see that. Watching us day-to-day doers, I think it's so important for them. Also, both the kids like play, we get a free head massager. At the salon, Henley's like, I want to go to Soph's shop and get some new clothes. I'm like, you have to pay for them. No. Like, no, I know, but like, I just see it's like very normal for them to be around people who are entrepreneurial or who have their own businesses and I think that was so cool. Same. We're around a lot of people who are doing very cool things here. So many are. Yeah. Like, everyone in our circle has their own business or they're doing something really great. Oh, the cat's back. The cat's back. Okay, we're almost done. Let it finish. What's your unpopular opinion about running a business? Oh, I thought about this. I feel like you don't need a five-year plan. Or a business plan. Yeah. I've always told, make a business plan. I've never made a business plan, ever. I feel like the business plan is from a, like, that term and the phrase is from a 50-year-old white man from America who's been in corporate. He's like, someone's come to him asking for funding or something. He's like, send me a business plan. Like, you know, trying to assert his deep fucking deep power for everyone. Yeah. I feel like you need two things. Resilience and community. Maybe more. But those two are really important. Yeah. They've been huge in, like, networking and, yeah, resilience. Massive. I want to add on passion. Passion. Passion, because you don't have that at the start. It's really hard to get an idea off the ground. Our agency, my business Inspire, our agency's values are resilience, empathy. Resilience, because it's really hard. Empathy, because I always, I have that for everyone. And I think it's important to have, whether you're an employee or the employer, fun. You can't not have fun. You have to enjoy what you're doing as well. Yeah. And family. That was another one. Because when I set up my business there, I wanted something that was more flexible down the track. I had a family, and I still think that that's really important for our employees to know that they're coming in to something, a company that supports family as well. The passion is a huge one. If I wasn't passionate about what I did, it would not have been any form of success. Yeah. You need to be passionate. Passion wears off, though. It's like lost in a relationship. By losing the passion, the business dies off. But it's enough there to start it. And then after that, it's great determination, resilience. And then you start to see success, or you start to see failure. And you have to kind of go either way. But once you start seeing success, it's a new type of passion. It's not passion for the initial idea of what you set up. It's passion for making money, and growing a business, and building a brand, and everything else that comes with it. Extension. Extension, all of that kind of stuff. I think your passion evolves, but it needs to be there at the start. Yeah. Yeah. If you don't have it, it's like, why are you even starting a business? Although, to be fair, I've never met people who are super passionate about envelopes or collecting rubbish. But they're still there doing their businesses. Exactly. What's your advice for people wanting to start a business, or a side hustle? It's funny. I have so many friends that want to start a business. And they're like, oh, but timing's not right. And I'm like, I don't think that is the right timing. You know how people are always like, it needs to be the right timing. I feel like you just kind of just have to start. What's the saying? It's like, done is better than perfect. So it's starting out, just getting that first post up, getting that first product, getting whatever else it is. Like, getting the first service client out there, and just perfecting it as you go. And not making sure it's like, too perfect. Look at that. When I started my business, some girlfriend who's like, gave me a bangle. I still have it. And the saying is, she took the leap and grew her wings on the way down. And they have that engraved on the inside of the bangle. And I think it's like, works in all facets of life, especially in business. Like, take the leap. Take the leap. Grow your wings on the way down. Fly wherever you need to fly, and just go from there. And when you feel like it's failing, like it's always the most growth. Like, you know it's the biggest learning. I think you have to fail to succeed. I agree. At some point. Like, you can't always be successful. And you learn lessons from failure. And make you stronger. Oh my gosh. Absolutely. Yeah. I think that's, yeah. Yeah. Take the leap. Take the leap. Grow those wings. Like, we started up Darling. I know. And we had no idea what we were doing. We actually started it so quickly. The space became available. So many people were like, what the fuck are those two doing opening a salon? We were like, nah, we're doing that. They were like, do you know anything about hairdressing? We were like, zero. Some of the closest people around us were saying, what are you doing? Yeah, they were. And they were like, what are you going to do? And we're like, we don't know, but that's what we're working out. Like, you can't. I think that comes down to risk as well. A lot of people aren't really risk averse. Whereas we were like, fuck it. I'm the most spontaneous person. I'm like, if I'm going to do something, I'm doing it. Yeah. My poor husband. You know. He loves you. I'll come home, and I'm like, I've got an idea. He's like, what now, Chloe? And I've usually had it for a while. And I'm not telling him because I want his feedback. I'm telling him because I've already rented the space. Or I've like, bought a license or something. And I'm like, I've got an idea. I've been sitting around for a while. And he's like, yeah, OK. I like it. I'm like, sweet. So I've got a lease. And I've hired the staff. And he'll just be like, how much is this going to cost? And I'm like, well, I'm from the figures. It's going to be $30,000. In my head, it's going to be $60,000. Lower it down. He's practical, though. He's way too practical for my sliding brain. You and I are just like, we're doing this. And it's going to be X amount. And we don't have at all. We sat him down last night. And we're like, so we're going to do this new idea for the salon. And it's complimentary. It's not a salon. It's XYZ. And he goes, so how much is it going to cost? And we're like, well, roughly this. And he's like, so you're already down this from the salon cost? And we're like, yes. Obviously, you're doing well. But technically and overall, you're going to be down X. And we were like, this doesn't sound great on paper. So we're shitting on our idea. And he's like, no, no, no. I'm just getting an idea for it. And we're like, we're still going to do it. We looked at each other. And we're like, oh, god. He might be right about this one. We've actually already got the space, too. Yeah, yeah. You, you, we've found somewhere. I'm a poor guy. He probably just flies awake at night thinking. He's like, what's my wife doing? No wonder we've got minus $70 in our account. I've spent all our ideas. All the ideas were extended. Poor guy. It will pay off. It will. I 100% think that this will pay off. Like, I think the problem with social media now is that people see founders when they are at a really far along point in their journey. And they're either selling or they've made millions of dollars. And they don't see all of the behind the scenes and the before stuff. And I'm still in the before stuff. I'm in the behind the scenes. I'm in the challenges. I'm in the fails. I think you probably are, as well. But it's the, in a few years, we'll be in our finished product. We'll be in the success story phase. And I know a lot of people have been, like, following us this phase. And they'll see that. But then so many people come in down the track and be like, oh, my god. How did you do that? Or, wow. And you're like, you did not see the 10 years. The five years. How many years? The nervous breakdowns. The really fucked up moments. The running businesses and trying to get stuff off the ground. That goes into that. Oh, my gosh. The behind the scenes stuff. Day to day. Like, the boring shit. Once the passion's gone. Yeah. Yeah. That's what they see. The cat's now down by drinking my water. Away. It's waiting for it to come and attack me. We know this cat's here. I hate cats, though. You don't like cats? I don't like cats. I mean, this cat is one of a kind. Pretty. Looks pretty. Doesn't it look pretty? So that kind of wraps up our little mini chat on the sofa. I know you're really nervous about doing this. You've absolutely nailed it. I was the guinea pig. I'm Chloe's guinea pig. You are the first. The guinea pig. I planned first. I feel like we might need to throw something out. Like, where I've just got a bit more confidence. So, perfect. You can come on down the track when we've, like, played darling multiple locations. When you've, like, taken Super to China and it's, like, she's not so fragile. I think there's a thing you're also not going through, like, some massive rollercoaster moments in your personal life. Shout out to the ex-boyfriend. Shout out to the loser. Yeah. So, rapid fire questions. I wasn't prepared for those. They're not on your list. Oh, thank you. But you know. Okay. Coffee order. Oh, do you know what? I was an oat latte until recently. Now I'm a long black with a little dash of milk. Wow. Yeah. Favourite drink? Alcoholic? Yep. Wine. One I'm drinking with you now. We love the Babydolls. Babydolls. You can't really get great wine and barley. I would not choose that. Anything from New Zealand. Oh, my gosh. Wine country. Oh, my gosh. Well, we're off to France this weekend, so I've got a lot of rosé faves. Yeah. We do love a rosé, you and I. I don't mind a chili margarita. That's my goal. Remember, I've got a list of 40 things to do before I'm 40. One of them was start a podcast. Tick. Tick. Tick. And one was learn to drink tequila. 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