Meeting with Hope Sullivan

This transcription covers a discussion about the establishment of a non-profit organization, CBA Discover Johnson, aiming to unify the town's messages through marketing and revitalize the community post-flood. The organization plans to enhance tourism, focus on recreation and cultural aspects, and introduce bold colors to the town's buildings. They also seek to promote historical preservation, engage visitors through art, develop recreational assets, and potentially establish connections with other recovering cities through art initiatives. The conversation highlights the town's resilience, creative thinking, and potential for broader storytelling and partnerships to enhance its identity and recovery efforts. Enjoying it? Oh yeah, it's been an interesting time though because I arrived right before the flood in 2023. Oh wow. So the first like six months. What an amazing way to start. Yeah, it was something for sure. Definitely. It's a huge story. It's a huge story. Still ongoing. So what we are is we started a non-profit. CBA is Discover Johnson. And we started it because we have a background in marketing. We were catalogers. We were website people. We've got feet in a lot of different places. And so we started it because we saw all these disparate messages. And I was somewhat involved in town politics and seeing kind of a lack of vision. And so our non-profit now includes people like Beth Foy who is a former select board member. Amy Tatro who is standing with the Tatro's and a couple of other people. We're gathering together. And so what we're going to do is, like I said, bring the disparate messages together. And our first purpose is to build a website that's actually we're going to be the marketing end of this town. Because we just don't see them getting back together. And a couple of our pushes basically are recreation. Because obviously we have some of the most publicly accessible recreation of any town in Vermont. And the other end is actually cultural. And we want to meld them together and then face them outward. And in the beginning just for tourism to bring that in. Hopefully grow the town that way. We see that you're doing things that weren't done before. I see that you're hiring a communications town coordinator. Is that right? Yes. We have a communications coordinator job that's not hired for. So outside of COI, right? Okay. Yep. And I see that you're painting all the buildings like different colors. Yeah, we are. Well, yeah. It's part of our whole campus plan. So we're starting to. Yeah. Recreation building. It's exciting. Yeah. Because you're like the canvas of the town. Yeah. What a beautiful way to say that. I can see that as a tagline, right? You're the canvas of the town. I love that. And color. Yeah. So much. And there's so much you can say with it. Yeah. So we actually, the only reason I'm hesitating is we have a board meeting this weekend. And on Friday evening, we are presenting to the board a fly-through of the campus proposing different brand colors of different buildings. So they have to be behind the bold color choices. Are we doing it with AI and stuff? To your board or to the select board? Select board. Oh, okay. Select board doesn't have. Right. That you're a part of. Thank goodness. Yeah. But we are making the case for, not garish colors, but bold colors. So like a deeper blue and a deeper green and ochre colors. Oh, no turquoise and stuff? No, no turquoise. Nothing like that right now. Oh, bummer. We were into bright. Well, you don't want to duplicate any other things. You have such beautiful shapes in your architecture here. I'm sure that you're going to pick colors that work with each building's best piece. Yeah. And within the brand of the organization. Right. So previously, the brand of the organization was that pale yellow and that green, which is kind of, you know, from that building and that building. Doesn't say much. Right. So, but yeah, we are going to try to do that. We're also, what Claire Slice will do if you know her, but we're putting historic signs in front of every building so that there's a way to walk through town and engage with our campus without actually walking into a building. So right on the sidewalk, you can read about the building and its history. Do you think that that will change the dynamic of visitors? I think right now, a lot of people don't realize how big we are. So just having a marker that shows like, oh, that's a VFC building and that's a VFC building and that's one thing that will help. Branding it in that way. Yeah. So just showing the scope or scale of what we are. I also think that there's going to need to be, there's going to be more traffic going around with this library over there and having more reasons to pause and look at things won't be bad. And having people appreciate the history wouldn't be bad either. And so like, that's a way for people to engage with us without disrupting the residents. Our website actually is going to be almost map-based with also an AI helper to set up itineraries for people to, oh yeah, I want to fish in the morning. I'd like to take life drawing in the afternoon. I want to play tennis in the evening. And so we're going to be driven that way. And we would love to also be, in some respects, because we're being a marketing, we'd like to be a marketing end actually for you as well. That would be awesome. Absolutely. So yeah, in terms of public concert engagement, we'll have a historic walk that you can add to whatever map. We're also in the process of developing, it'll take a while, but a trail, a pollinator trail along the river bank to connect to the arboretum so that people can walk along the river and go over there. So once we have that installed and we actually have the entire path, which there's river mitigation that has to happen and all kinds of crazyness, but that will be hopefully a good asset for the town as well. Right. And we're collating right now all the recreational assets. And so we would love to work more hand in glove with you guys so that we can develop this. Because the next thing we're going to do outside of just the website development is actually putting brochures in all of the visitor centers up the highway. Oh, wonderful. Because if you go to those visitor centers, I mean, obviously people stop in to use the potty, but then they're there. Yeah, there's all the raptors. Everything's there. And if you look on the big maps of what's happening, we've got, they just recently put the willow mills. That's it. We're a blank slate up here. Yeah. We went to Aruba recently. And we took the tour of the, there's a mural tour in St. Nicholas, and we were obviously extremely interested to learn the history of that town. And we met the director, Tito, and he founded it as a nonprofit. And he brings in, he has about 12 projects going, and he's been painting the, like, every week. Big giant mural. Adding big murals. So the buildings are covered with murals that represent the town and speak, tell the story of the town, the story of the culture. And then he has a docent touring the thing. They're doing that because the town was decimated. And that's a whole revival of saving the town. Yeah, art saving the town. And it became quite obvious that his idea was just so replicable in a way. Not exactly the same, but the notion that art can save a town, or that it can be a big part of telling the story of a town. Absolutely. So we're really excited about that. The mural model exists in a lot of different places. That would be an interesting thing to try and do. They also did benches in, of Moselle. The benches were amazing. And then we met a former Vermont Studio Center artist there. Oh yeah? Yeah, she's on the board of directors, and her name is Jean Cheruni. Okay. She used to do the roller skating on the canvas, and she's a real ball of energy. So she relocated to Aruba, but she was a Vermonter. This is pretty astonishing, too. Maybe, have you ever... Yeah. Yeah, I don't think I've met her, but... That was a really strange thing to be walking around. Oh, I'm from Vermont. She said that, and we're like, really? Where? And then all of a sudden... And we realized we'd actually been in her studio. In her studio. I wanted to open a studio. Oh my goodness. And then her husband is a guy who used to be... He started the Good News Garage as a non-profit, and was a rep. And was awarded Vermonter of the Year. So this is all mind-blowing, because we're going there on vacation. Right. These were some of the... This was all in mosaic. And there's a whole bunch of different ones there, and it was just... You can see the kids' projects with that and stuff. Well, that was a kids' project. Yes, it was. And the kids make their individual ceramic pieces. Yeah. It was an amazing... Look at this whole entire side of this building. Yeah, it's awesome. Amazing. Amazing. Yeah. So, anyway, we would love if we could somehow... I mean, we have thought of sister cities in a way. Yeah, like just making some kind of connections with cities that are also recovering. Like in Nashville, North Carolina, with the recovering. And how are they going to use art in their story to recover? Or, you know, one of our board members actually suggested, like, at an auction, you could auction off a trip to another art city, like where they're just, you know, using art to save the city. Just as a thing to put the story out there. So just to have a broader... Yeah, a broader story. And a connectivity, because those things get advertised. Probably. I mean, one thing I thought that was a message about Johnson I thought was great was the way that Tom, the town administrator, presented the library move. And it was like thinking creatively about how to be resilient to the flood. And I forget the exact line he used, but it was basically like to think differently. And that could be kind of a tagline for Johnson, because you already have national coverage. Was there national coverage on that? It might have been regional. I'm pretty sure there was national. Really? I mean, I'm not sure, but it's definitely beyond regional. It's definitely an ongoing story. So as they get closer to opening again, we can recreate that story on a bigger scale if need be, because we have the footage. Or they have the footage, and we can connect that. Right. Yeah, if it wasn't national, then that was an opportunity. I thought it was. In a way, that language is already existing and percolating through the town. So that seems like that could be an interesting thing to capitalize on. You're right, because when the story is already being told, just magnifying it and adding to it and guiding it is part of the power of the story. Totally. Because the one thing about the Aruba model is that doesn't exist here. Right. And that's not our business, and that's not the Wollongong business. Oh, no. That's going to be our business. Right. You want to be marketing, but now you also have to be building. We have to create stories. We have. I mean, that is. The story that already exists. Yeah. The retelling. The retelling. That's what's beautiful about this is that Johnson is this unpolished gem. It has amazing resources and amazing people and amazing history. Really beautiful set pieces that we can hopefully save as many of them as we can if they're in danger. We can just re-story it, because the story is what follows. People haven't been here. We need to bring them here for the story. I mean, we have. It would make it easier access, too. We're halfway through the rail trail. What an awesome place to be. And we are pulling that in as well. Which is great. We need so much infrastructure. Right. But we also need, if you're biking on the rail trail and you don't know that there's a parking lot coming further west, you think you've gotten to Johnson when you get that big pink sign, and it implies you need to go up the hill to get to town. You need to re-look at that. There's a lot of signage issues. I know. I had that problem before I worked here. Signage issues. I got to Johnson, and I was like, how do I get to town? Well, I think there's going to be. You know, we have to talk to them about that. Why don't you write that down? They're working on signage, but I think it's in the way of life. It's super industrial and weird. So, I mean, that's another rail trail community is dealing with that, but there's so many little places and pieces. Including bathrooms that are missing for the public. Right. I mean, that's a whole other kettle of fish. I mean, we're obviously bringing in the college because the Shape Center truly is a multi-million dollar exercise facility, and it's not marketed that way. But we are going to make sure that comes in, and you can have a day pass there for $10. Right. Take a shower if you're hiking. Yeah, yeah. Things like that. How can we – do you see a way that we can work with you? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, let's see. So, we have different initiatives that we're doing, and certainly amplifying is great. We have five public events coming in the summer. And that would be – maybe we could interact with your – what is her name, the new woman? The community outreach person. Or have you hired that person yet? Oh, I thought you meant the communications coordinator. Oh, there you go. And that's – you probably would want to interact with our community engagement director, which is Liz Coffman. Liz Coffman. So, she's the one who's organizing the public events. I haven't interacted with her. I've interacted with Coy. Oh, okay. So, that's one of the reasons we're here. I don't even know that. So, I can introduce you to Liz. That would be awesome. So, the five events we have are on the third Sunday of the month, from June through October. Each month is slightly different. It's just 2 to 4 p.m. in a slightly different focus. So, in June, we're going to be recognizing and hosting the building crew and the architects that have been donating a ton of money to help us with the campus plan. In July, it's going to be about the Vermont Fresh Network, because we're members of that, Fresh Network as in farm to plate? Yeah, because 35% of the proceeds, more than 35%, is from Vermont producers. Definitely want to tell your story. So, that's part of it. Oh, actually, I forgot. In June, we're also going to have the local historic society will be here, because the historic event will be up. We'll be celebrating that and the buildings and whatnot. They're already done. Oh, good. So, well, they're not up yet, but they will be. Let's see. September, we're going to do the ribbon cutting for Corner House. Did we get August yet? August, I think we're going to be celebrating our regional artists and writers who are in residence here. And then in October, I think we're doing something in collaboration with the pizza people. Okay. It's more of like a community day. That's excellent. Part of all of those will be open studios. So, people can walk around and check out the studios. They can join for the toast at whatever it is we're celebrating. And it'll be at least one tour, just to get the insight into what's going on around campus that isn't part of what's happening in the studios. Okay. So, here's what we're trying to build, and here's where we are, and whatnot. Part of our mission is, because of the people we also have on the board, is that we are not going to interject ourselves into their committees. But what we also want to do is facilitate deals and bringing parties together. And we would like to somehow interact with you on that level. I mean, we love the lecture hall. The low lecture hall. Yeah, I heard that there's a lot of question about what's going on with that. Yeah. So, there is a question about it. It is in a bad state of repair. I guess it hasn't since we got it from the town, and we haven't invested. It is about like $1.5 million for the foundation and ADA compliance, or something like that. That's a number I heard. Yeah, that's one. Oh, wow. Oh, really? Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. So, yeah, it's significant money, and right now, it's not acceptable. And so, we've put our more up-to-date ADA equipment into our dining hall, so we're using that for our public events, like for the talks and whatnot, which isn't ideal. It's hard to come in if you don't know your way in. Yeah. But it's long-term, temporary. But because of mold in the lecture hall and lack of accessibility, it just isn't the place to have programs right now. Oh, so sad. So, we are trying to figure out what to do. So, there's a small board group and staff group that's working to think about options. We've met with quite a few different community leaders to get ideas. Our original goal, and this is going to be rethought this summer, the original goal was to retain the building until we could find a community partner who would take it up and give it to them for a very reduced rate, like as much as we could possibly do it, give it away. So, for example, like the health clinics, we were talking to them, like, you need a new space. Would this be a place to repurpose? Those kinds of things were being talked about, but now with the geopolitical climate and funding collapsing, that seems very unlikely that that will come through. So, actually, that small task force is going to be meeting to rethink how we want to approach it, because what we don't want is for something to fail. And then we have not just a building we're not able to use, but also a building that nobody can use because the foundation collapsed. We were actually looking for a place where we can actually do a welcome center to this town at the same time. I mean, at one point before we heard about the exorbitant amount of money to help that, we had been dreaming, oh, that would be a great place, right in the front. It's just so incredible inside. It is an incredible building. Yeah, and you don't realize. Yeah. Well, we'll figure something out, and I'll keep you guys in mind, like whatever we're doing. I mean, it's not going to be about making money from this. Oh, gosh, no. It's going to be about, like, trying to find the right solution, but also getting out from under this, like, huge sand bowl of, like, we don't want. Is the town still collecting tax on it from you? We pay property tax on the entire campus. Okay. Yeah. So, we pay over $100,000 a year. So, you can't tease that out and say you get a freebie on that one, though? No, we pay taxes on everything. So, yeah, our economic impact on the town over 41 years has been pretty astounding. Pretty astounding. Yeah, over $100,000 a year. Yeah. If, because of the people that are on our board, I mean, if maybe somehow we could sit on some of these more open meetings, is that possible? What do you mean, for love? Yeah. Anything like that. Yeah, if another one occurs, absolutely. Or anything, you said that you were meeting with the town leaders? Well, she said an interested party. Oh, you did. Well, we are an interested party. I mean, we're going to be. No, that was probably six months ago. Oh. We had a couple of meetings. Because Amy Tatro explained that she had just gone through a big multi, like over a million dollar list for the cafe. Right. And so, she was like, it's doable, but it's a big list. Yeah. Her new director was at our meetings. MA? MA. Yeah. And Garrett from MSI and Gene and whatnot. Oh. And we had like a lot of folks there. And Gene. All the people. Tom and, I don't know, I'm forgetting everyone. Oh, Randall Zott must have been there. Yeah. Yeah. We talk, we deal with him more than we deal with Tom, because he's the one really going out there getting a lot of, except for the library, he's the one who's also doing a lot of interaction with grants. And he put us in contact with different organizations. He then would probably be the one who would know if there's any possibility of getting federal or state money for love. So, it's historic nature. It could be absolutely ideal for what you guys are conceiving. I would love to explore that. Can you tell me your name again so I can describe it? Morna. Morna. M-O-R-N-A. Like morning, but morna. Yeah. That's the best way I can describe it. But yeah, if we do have another public meeting, I think right now we're trying to regroup internally and just figure it out, because it seems like the landscape has shifted so much. Oh, my God. Because of, you mean because of the Trump administration? Yeah. Yeah. And just the shift in funding. I mean, I'm wondering, I mean, the thing that, one of my biggest concerns is that those properties are a wound. And it needs to be closed. And those properties need to be taken down. And that will reshape the town. Because not beautiful green spaces, but a walk along the river, which we could connect to this walk along the river, would be, that would be just. I understand that the Tuesday Night Live used to be on Main Street. No, no, no. I'm part of, I'm the guy who raises the money for Tuesday Night Live. What's happened is we can't have children running in between a construction zone and the elementary school. It just doesn't work. And we have to move the bandstand. So we're having two major concerts, double headers, at Old Mill Park. But as soon as that's done, it is our intention, as of now, to go back. Have you considered, though, once the, if the buyback happens with the grocery store and all of that turns into green, moving it there? Because my understanding is it was originally founded on Main Street. Because it's where Ben & Jerry's lives. Yeah. Tuesday Night Live. And that people love that because they would drive through and see it. Right. No, no, no. We think, I mean, once again, those are wounds. Wait, we didn't have Ben & Jerry's here. There was a Ben & Jerry's before. You're kidding. Yeah, in between the time. Where the smoke shop is. It's been 20 years and I've never heard that there was a Ben & Jerry's here. The smoke shop, the Close Ellen, that apparently was Ben & Jerry's and over the green. The little purple building on the outside of the, next to the. Historical Center? No, I'm not sure if that was it. A new smoke shop. No, no, it's really old. It's been for sale for a while. This one. It's across from the General Store. Yep. Okay. Yeah, that's what I was talking about. Oh, okay. We're pointing in different directions because I have no clue where I am. I lived here, I went to college here. One of my colleges, I went to college here and that was the late 70s, early 80s and then I moved away and that's when I think right around the time that John Gregg started this whole thing. Yep, 84. We've been absent from that time and then we moved back here. We've had property here since 04. Oh, wonderful. Okay. So. So you've seen a lot of evolution here. Anyway, that's just my personal thought. I was like, I don't know where people will see. I mean, is it big enough green? Well, no. I believe that is what would happen and we are allowed to by FEMA to build a non-sided building so you can have a bandstand, you can have all this stuff. No, it would end up being there but once again, who knows when that wound is going to close. Can you talk to Randall about the Welcome Center funding? Sure. Absolutely. Because one thing too is our quotes for expenses, we have exceedingly high standards. So our building envelope standards, our air handling, not to say you don't want high standards but ours exceed everything. You mean not Vermont broken down standards? Well, no, Vermont standards have grown. Well, they have but we exceed them exponentially. Well, that's fine. Which makes it more expensive. So our quotes could be more expensive than what you would be able to do and possibly maybe the Tetros would want to donate some construction labor. You might be able to find ways around costs but we can't. We don't have that easy way of doing it. So all to say... Well, that's the kind of teamwork that we want to do. So it's more than $1.5 million in our estimate. Wow. But maybe you guys could get it done. So anyway, I'm happy to share that detail with you. So that's the avenue that we want to explore. So I think that's right up the alley of the kind of thing we were hoping it would continue to have a community life. So talk to him. We'll see. Our impression was that all that kind of opportunity, block grants, everything, is just collapsing. But maybe some of it's already retained. Yeah, it's pretty astounding, unfortunately, what's happening. Well, I will let the task force know that we had this conversation so they're aware that this is at least percolating. And if you want to see, if you think there's... Let me talk to Amy. Talk to Randall. So you also have... I just met Candace Trousseau at the most recent studio walk. So I would maybe be able to interact with her to get deeper background information on possibilities for the Lowe Center. If she's writing all your grants, she might have some... Yeah, she's not writing grants for Lowe. Oh, okay. But yeah, but I'd be able to get you the information. You mean in terms of historic information? Yeah, if I need... So we have all that data. Who is writing the grants for... We're not writing grants for Lowe right now. We're trying to figure out how to... Oh, okay. Candace Trousseau probably has her hands full on all the other grants. Exactly, yeah. I mean, she's been really instrumental with FEMA, which, fingers crossed, we get it. We've been applying to FEMA since the last 23. How much did you guys lose? We lost a building across the way. So behind these buildings, there was a whole studio building that was lost. And the first floor of this building used to be our art library and our residence lounge, our business center, digital print lab. That was completely flooded. Were you able to rescue the library? Oh, my God. No. Oh, that must have been priceless. Yeah. So that's now no longer being used for human use because it flooded before. Any mold? No, we stripped everything out. Okay. Yeah, luckily. There was a building back there that was the worst impacted. Thank you. We're trying to be resilient, and we're not going to build back there. But yeah, so we were very significantly impacted. So we are hopefully going to be receiving a couple million dollars towards those bad costs. Yeah. If FEMA still exists. It's mind-blowing. Yeah. Where are you going to... Yeah. So like, Candace has been working her butt off for years on that. They put us in the FEMA plan and have been really actively interacting with us to support us moving forward. But then they said they took all references to FEMA out of the plan in case it becomes a liability in the future. Isn't that horrifying? Yeah. But anyway, low data, we have all that information. It would be no problem at all to get you the history of it and the estimates. We have preliminary cost estimates. And that also would be good if we have lower estimates. Then it would look more fungible. Then you have two. Yeah. We're good. Well, let me, you know, we'll follow up on that one. See what you can find out, and I'll loop in the committee, and they'll be in touch. Or I'll be in touch to put you in touch or whatever. And the community and the outreach person. Right. Liz. Okay. Liz Chapman. We're going to connect with her very, very soon. Okay. Liz and Coy are handling the marketing of each of those experiences. They're called ExperienceUSA. So the third Sunday of the month. Well, we will replicate that for them and push that farther outward. Okay. So I like that you've named it. Yeah. That's wonderful. Yeah. And I think that's sort of branding it a bit. It's a pilot we're testing out, because historically we've really been about people who already know about us. Right. I noticed that all of a sudden everything kind of has changed. So we're trying to do it in a very cautious way so that we do not in any way dilute the experience for others. Absolutely. It's also like the pollinator trail will be along the river, not up at the building. It's unfortunate about the arboretum that she is so hesitant about putting. I didn't mention that. Yeah. Well, I think obviously she knows that it's like artwork and arboretum for some reason. But it's so funny. They're against that. We wish it would be different. Yeah. But it's a very cute arboretum. It is. It is. It is. And an asset, I think, for people for sure. It is. Would there be a way? Are you considering artwork along the way to this or no? We're considering the pollinator trail. Okay. So that will be the native flora and fauna being recognized as we go through. That's more what we were thinking. Because we actually are, we have a couple of exceptions on campus, like the sculpture that's in front of Khan, which is by a former trustee, donated by one of our donors. It's recognizing his time on the board. But in general, we don't want to be putting up work because it implies an aesthetic. And so we want to be very open. I understand you don't want to push people to replicate it or to think around them. Or to think that this is welcoming to that aesthetic. So, for example, the work that you'll see in the hallway, that's for people who are currently here in the studio. It's not historic or a collection. We're not a collecting organization. Maybe, I mean, I understand the pedestals that were put out with the help of the studio arts center in town. They are right now, there is a discussion about having artwork. That would be great. That is trying to interact or put art into the community. I think that probably the nice colors that you're going to be, hopefully, juxtaposing in there will also be an invitation at the same time. And we definitely want to talk to the people that are, the two that are putting together this kind of marketing thing. Because we do want to amplify and we do want to work hand in glove with them. But at the same time, we want to hear your thoughts and their thoughts about, no, we don't want to go in that direction. Yes, we do want to go in this direction. Did I miss a name? So, we have community engagement is Liz Kaufman. Clay. Who is Clay? And then there is some, you have a comms coordinator. It's different. Yeah, that's a part-time position that's starting. I thought that's what you were referring to. So, you wouldn't be directing, working with her directly. It's Liz and Clay. Of course. Because I've spoken to Clay. We walked months ago and had a conversation about that. But she thought that some of the stuff that we were already doing, the life drawing was going to happen in 2026 as opposed to 2025. When I talk about life. For your drawing, it has launched. And that we want to, that's a drop-in class, right? Yep. That is the thing. That's definitely the kind of thing we want to promote. Have you had some drafts? Yeah, we've had some. There's only one a month right now. But we've had two so far and they've been good. Good. Yeah. So, and that's on our calendar on our website. Did you guys reference that? No, we have not. I mean, I don't think a lot of people even know about that. And that's another thing that we want to, because we are going to not only have the map driven, it's also going to be date and calendar driven. Oh, this is what's available. That's why an AI is perfect for that. Oh, this is what's available while you're here. Oh, you like art? Blah, blah, blah. Yeah. I believe Finger Drawing is the second Sunday of the month. And then Experiences is the third. And we're hoping that our outward marketing, setting aside tourism, would be people that are also artists that had never even heard of the Studio Center. So, our goal would be to bring students to you. And I know because everybody's recovering from COVID, we would love to bring more people to engage in your program. Yeah. If that's something you'd like. So, yeah. Our program, we're not a school. We're a residency program. Right, right. I understand that. Which means that people are coming from all over the world to just focus on their practice and be in the community here. So, yeah. I'd say, in general, increasing our applicant pool is nice. But we have over 5,000 people here applying. Oh, wow. So... You're not lacking for applicants. We're not lacking for applicants. But what we're lacking is recognition. We'd like to get that for you. So, having the region understand that we're an asset for Johnson and that we're going to be part of the economic revitalization. Just like lawn mills really present on Main Street and Butternut, we're going to be making it more present along Pearl Street here. Just trying to really up the game of Johnson and up the game for us. We're interacting with these people as well. We've interacted with Gene. And we definitely are going to interact with people from Butternut. And so, that's our goal. Totally. We'd like to get you regionally attracted at the same time. And I think Gene is a commercial entity. Yeah. We don't want the tourist flood. We want to be an asset for that flood and for people to start. We want to get name recognition. But we don't necessarily, except for a few events, we don't want people coming into the building. I totally understand. It's so funny. So, we do have a little bit of a closed door. And it is about the residents. But that's why we're going to have things along the sidewalk. And that's why we're going to have a walk. And that's why we're going to be a little bit more colorful. So, we have vibrant... And those are the things that we will promote. And with an AI, it won't say, go into the building. It will only say, on this date, blah, blah, blah. It does a different map of all the tours you can do and all that. Absolutely. And that doesn't mean that we can't foster the development of a gallery. Not from the VSC, but there could be galleries or a gallery here in this town because we're going to be attracting people who love art. And they would be able to shop there or visit there or learn there. Our long-term plan is to have a public exhibition space. Excellent. It's just a ways down the road in terms of raising the money for it. We need to fix the lull. That's one thing it could possibly serve in a little bit. The upstairs gallery is huge. Yeah. Really, the cost to turn it into a gallery space would be exorbitant. That's why we're not going to do it, by the way. Where are you thinking, then, that you would put it? I don't know if you recall the firehouse that we used to have. You had the welding in there. That building was taken down, so we're thinking about a building there, basically. That would be specific to hosting public events. Whereas Lowe has so many. There's no parking. There's no accessibility. There's all these challenges. Even the upstairs right now, it wouldn't pass code. The wall is too low. There's all kinds of challenges to repurpose that for an exhibition to be a purpose. It's way more cost effective. I was only there for a minute, but I agree. It's awesome. However, if you put a welcome center in there, I would encourage you to put a rail upstairs, and then, yeah, have local artwork up. I hear we used to host an annual show for elders in the community. No, I did not know that. It was well before my time, but how great. That would be a cool thing to do. You mean elder artists? Yeah. Elder artists in Johnson every year. I don't know if there's still a painting group or whatever, but it'd be cool to always have a show of regional artists. Did you know there's a photography group that's international and that comes and descends here every- In Johnson? Painting and photography. Painting and photography. Oh, wow. The River Painters, it's called. Oh, wow. Yeah. They descend here. When was it? April or May? Late March. Late March. Yeah. That's in Johnson? Yeah. Wow. They're painting all along the river. They mostly lodge themselves at Scow. I mean, no, at Smuggs. At Smuggs. Okay. And then they just- They're a large group. Like 250 people. Yeah. Yeah. They descend into the area. Yeah. We invited- We invited them. They could use our property. Yeah. And we would be open to any- Oh, yeah. We would be open for you guys to do that, too. Oh, where's your property? 100 C, 1.8 miles up the road, 100 C. Have you ever come down from field days? Oh, yeah. Okay. So when you come down from field days, there's that big S-turn. Everything closes up, and then all of a sudden the valley explodes. That top building there that you go, oh, God, they have really amazing views, that's us. Oh, that's awesome. So we are above, and then the whole- And it's a 3D effect with little hills popping up, and then the mountains. We've talked for a long time about how it would be a great place for people to bring their easels and do that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So we've talked about different things. There is wind there, so you can't really plan fancy things. Right. We understand the drawbacks of the town, too. I mean, we understand there's hardly any places to stay. We understand a lot of the- Not enough public bathrooms. Not enough public bathrooms. There's a lot that has to- This has to be a slow and gradual lift. But the places to stay, I mean, Gene is building behind the studio store. They're supposedly going to be building all kinds of apartments. So there's more places to stay. It's going to happen. Whatever happens with the college. Well, we are trying to interact with how much ever the college is willing to interact. Plus, Morna is arranging to have a group from Emerson College in Boston come up and stay during the fall semester. She's her alma mater. I think we're off on a semester there, but we're going to be a case study. Fall 2026. Fall 2026. Yeah. We're going to be a case study for their creative economy major. Oh, interesting. I didn't know if they were considering one. They have one. They have a creative economy major at Emerson. Oh, Emerson. I thought you meant at Johnson. Oh, no. Oh, gosh, no. No, no, no. We're going to- That would be lovely. No, it's bringing people from Boston up. I find it- We would be interested in potentially partnering with that. We have a lot of career readiness programs that we do here. Oh, that's very cool. Which we also don't talk about too much. But Liz Coffman can tell you she runs our career readiness program, so an intro to work program, co-op programming that we do. In fact, we work with Higher Ability and GMTCC. Wow. It would be cool, though, to have- and we're about to launch an interim program in the summer, like a more bona fide one. It would be cool, though, to have- if they're working on cultural economy, creative economy, that's exactly what our business is. Well, the chairman of that program is coming up to visit. We would love to have you interact. Oh, yeah. That would be great. Okay. Yeah, I'll reach out to him and find out if he knows more about when he's coming. His name is Najem, what is it? Najem Rahim. Najem. And he's written up everywhere. He's done a lot of work. It's a very interesting progression for him. He started out at Bennington studying drama, then he got his PhD in economics in New Mexico. But he's published quite extensively on projects all over the globe about flood recovery and the marketing around climate change. Oh, interesting. Yeah, because this is what requires an imaginative shift. Totally. Well, we're actually- we have a bid and we want to do an economic impact study, basically, but it costs like five grand and we don't have five grand. So, Candace is always keeping her eye out, like, is there anywhere we can get that money because it would be so useful for us to be able to talk. Like, when I was in Montpelier- You mean about what- The impact is Vermont Studios Center. So, you know, we have- Oh, what impact you make. Yeah. So, our economic impact is sizable, you know, from property tax to the five to six hundred people that we bring in to Johnson every year, to the people we employ, the amount we pay, you know, all those kinds of things. The produce that we purchase, the capital stuff that we're investing in. That's a big impact. But we don't have it in a data format, a quantitative format, that we can communicate to legislators. So, I'm curious, like, the different angles you take on the major in this. It's interesting. Maybe we could also help engage in that way as well. I mean, the whole point of us is not only to promote, but also to be deal makers and to bring people together. Strategic partners. Strategic partners. Well, if you can strategically find me five grand. Five grand is a lot easier to find you than 2.5 million. Yeah. Well, sometimes. Right, right. Too big. Yeah, Randall and- between Randall and Amy. You know, one of the- Maybe they can open up- One of the things that- Yeah, Randall and Amy. That has been used as an opera house. And there are a lot of philanthropists that are interested in local theater. So, if we could cultivate that aspect of it a little bit more. Is there some problems with it, though, to be a theater? I've run a performing arts center before. It has no wing space. It has no backstage space. It has no access. Oh, God. Yeah, I thought it was kind of lacking on the church level since it had no kitchen. Yeah. It's just darling, though. Yeah, it has no shop space. It has no store space. Wow. So, it's got- it has a lot of challenges. So, a theater company would have to be very community to be into it. And there already is one, kind of. Yeah, Hyde Park has one. Yeah, and that's excellent. Well- But it's also only doing, like, portions a year. Because that's- And they can sell tickets for it. So, I mean, I saw the show recently, Rocky Horror. Oh, we were going to go to that. How was it? It was great. Was it? Is it still on? No, it ended last weekend. Oh. Yeah, I was- I wasn't sure how it would be. I have a 14-year-old. And she really wanted to go with her little friend. So, I was bringing them all up to Chaperone. And I was like, I don't know. This could be terrible. All live action. No movie. But it was great. Yeah, they had, like, goody bags. You're a brave mom. Water pistols. Oh, did they really? Oh. Right. That's what everyone was saying. Oh. It was a really multi-generational audience. Oh, sure. I remember the first time I went when I was 16. And my friend said, let's go. My brother says, we'd like it. And we were both like- And the actors were really good. Oh, I'm so sorry we didn't go. They have fostered a lot of imagination across the years. Because even when I was in high school in my church youth group, they did Rocky Horror songs in the youth service. Unitarian, right? Some of them even got actually married at shows like every weekend for years and years and years. Because Cleveland doesn't go too far. Yeah. It was funny, though. Well, they have the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Your mom kind of helped with that, I thought. She did. Yeah. Nice. Well, it's a big institution now. Oh, this is an excellent meeting. This is really good. One other thought that might or might not be relevant is that you guys create a lot of interesting images and I'm sure some film. And I'm sure you've produced films or documentaries about your facility. And we're going to be hoping to add those to our channel that we're putting together. We're going to put together a channel. If you're interested in talking to anyone of your artists as they pass through to influence or create or share their photographs. Their experience in Johnson. Their photographs. Yes, anything like that. Because we would be the grateful accumulator and streamer of those types of things. Anything that you have that would be, you know. On this interactive map, there will be spots that you can click on and then there will actually be a pop-up. And there can be, we imagine, links to our channel, links to our influencers, information. I mean, it's going to be extremely. So, we are working on better video assets about us. So, once we have that, absolutely, we can share that. Nice. For our residents, it's going to be sometimes there's something. Sometimes there's nothing. It might be easier for us to give you a link to a place where we're curating something. Sure. I know also for our writers. So, we do visual artists and writers. We are just starting to have an online bookshop for our writers who are published. We would love to include that. Love to include that. Yeah, and that supports them directly. It shows all the talent that's come through here. That's pretty cool. Part of what makes Johnson so amazing. It's this hidden gem that has so many people who spent decades on their craft and their art. And at any given time. Kind of have no outlet in lots of ways. Yeah. And then just knowing. You know, my club's team has that restaurant, too. It'll be easier to see. I understand when the bar was active. You know, like the 40 residents we had on site would be there intermingling with people from Johnson all the time. I've seen your people here when we have Tuesday Night Live. I've seen them there. I've heard them. Yeah. So, I mean, we're still contracted from COVID. We're only at 30 people at a time right now. So, only about 500 people a year. But in January, we'll go back up to 40 at a time. So, over 600 a year coming through. That's great. That's a lot of just, you know, interesting, unique perspectives and worldviews and take something coming through the town all the time. So, as there's more places for connection. That's great. We want to act as like a sieve and some of these people will go, oh, we would love to. So, I see a lot of interaction, a lot of ways we can work together. Awesome. I do, too. This is great. So, I guess, so for the immediate is, I will. What's your email address? morneau.flong at gmail.com. Okay. Keep it simple. That is nice and simple. I will digitally connect you to Liz and Corey again. Awesome. I would just say that we have this conversation and for them to be in touch. I love it. I will connect with the folks who are doing the thinking around Lowe right now. Clay and. I don't know about a Clay. I thought you mentioned a person named Clay. No. Okay. I've been communicating with Gregor Nowakowski. Oh, okay. Because he's got, he's really advocating for Lowe to be saved. Oh, I see. Okay. Yeah. So, yeah. So, he's one of our buildings and grounds staff members. Right. But he's not part of that committee, so. Okay. Well, we definitely want to talk to the committee. He let me into the building. Oh, okay. Gotcha. Yeah. So, I will talk to the committee and get them involved. Yeah. And Gregor's lovely, but he's not actually part of that. Gotcha. That's right. That was just her. I just know his heart lies in that he just thinks it's just such a nice thing. Oh, yeah. It's a beautiful thing. Yeah. I think we all agree with that. And that's great. We haven't been able to make a hard decision yet, because everybody loves it. There's so much nostalgia around what we've been able to do in there. Did you know there's actually a full-scale model of it in the Historical Society? I did not know that. A handmade model of several of the buildings. And below, you can take the roof off and see little people in there. Oh, my God. That's amazing. It's very cute. Yeah. And it was the town meeting hall for years. And so, it's really nice. Yeah. It's a beautiful thing. Yeah. I think we all agree with that. And that's why we're, we haven't been able to make a hard decision yet, because everybody loves it. And there's so much nostalgia around what we've been able to do in there. I think we all agree with that. Yeah. And that's why we're, we haven't been able to make a hard decision yet, because everybody loves it. And that's why we're, we haven't been able to make a hard decision yet, because everybody loves it. And that's why we're, we haven't been able to make a hard decision yet, because everybody loves it. And that's why we're, we haven't been able to make a hard decision yet, because everybody loves it. And that's why we're, we haven't been able to make a hard decision yet, because everybody loves it. 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