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Mx. Pucks A'Plenty, internationally reknowned burlesque dancer and creator of FatCon joins Auntie vice to chat about coming out as nonbinary, working as a Black, disabled, fat, and queer burlesque performer, creating FatCon, and discovering the power of fat liberation.
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Mx. Pucks A'Plenty, internationally reknowned burlesque dancer and creator of FatCon joins Auntie vice to chat about coming out as nonbinary, working as a Black, disabled, fat, and queer burlesque performer, creating FatCon, and discovering the power of fat liberation.
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Auntie Vice welcomes Ms. Mix Pucks A Plenty, a prominent burlesque performer, to Fat Chicks on Top. They discuss the challenges of being non-binary, fat, and disabled in the burlesque industry. Ms. Mix Pucks A Plenty emphasizes the importance of body positivity and inclusivity in the community. They also share their journey in burlesque and their mission to challenge societal norms and inspire self-acceptance. The reactions they receive from different audiences, including both supportive and ignorant comments, are also discussed. The conversation touches on the queer gaze and the significance of representation in the LGBTQ+ community. Welcome to Fat Chicks on Top. You are here with your host, Auntie Vice, and it's good to be back. Happy Pride. And I am super excited. Today I have Ms. Mix Pucks A Plenty on the show. They are one of the most influential burlesque folks in the country. They were rated in the top 20. In fact, you're number 16. They have been deemed the Michelle Obama of burlesque. They're just amazing. I followed them for a long time. They do such cool work. So we're going to talk about Fat Con. We're going to talk about burlesque. We're going to talk about all of their organizing work because they are just a force in the world. Welcome to the show. I am so glad to be here. Yeah. So technically, I am the 17th most influential burlesque figure in the world. And I've been on the in the top 20 now for three years in a row, which is really, really wild to me as a as a black, fat, disabled, non-binary, very queer, high femme individual. Right. But they're just like, oh, yeah, OK, sure. I mean, people think burlesque is very like body positive and there is still a lot of people dealing with a lot of internalized fat phobia. And we still see that a lot in like the casting for like major shows and major events. They're still kind of taking more straight sized people. So it's it's kind of like I'm on this list. It's amazing. But also like, you know, it sometimes doesn't equate to like actually getting buffed, which is wild. It is. It is. And one of the reasons I love your work is my experience in the burlesque world is that you're allowed to violate one norm. Right. You can be fat, but you have to be white and able bodied. Or you could be black, but then you have to be straight sized and able bodied. Yeah. Right. And you don't you cross all sorts of spectrums here. And it's fantastic. Absolutely. I I came in to burlesque about like almost eight years ago. I was doing a lot of volunteer work at the Center for Sex Positive Culture in Seattle, which is, you know, is our local dungeon and cake club. And the the late great Elena Gabash asked me to help with planning a fundraiser. And I'm like, let's do let's do like a cabaret kind of thing. And so I met up with a bunch of a bunch of burlesque people. And I've always loved to dance. I've always loved to move. And so they encouraged me to kind of create a little burlesque act. And I'm like, you know, this feels good in the body. Sure. Yeah. And so I took lessons with Miss Indigo Blue based in Seattle, Washington. And I thought, OK, I'll get this out of my system and I probably will never do it again. And here we are almost eight years later. I produced two burlesque festivals and, you know, and have gotten to travel all over. Haven't kind of crossed the pond yet. Haven't been over to Europe yet, but I'm hoping to cross off my list this year. That would be amazing. So when you're getting in there, especially as somebody who doesn't come into this as a bendy 20 something. Right. Young white. How was it getting on stage the first few times? You know, but your first your first time I was lucky. The first I kind of dabbled in this burlesque thing. It was to an audience full of kinksters, you know, so they're just like. Cool. And I did an act that was very like it was, you know, part burlesque, but mostly it was a. It was like an impact scene between me and one of my one of my exes. And, you know, and both of us are high spends. It was just kind of like this whole situation. So I got to kind of have the best of both worlds. I got to kind of strip and hold court. That's what I call it when I when I taught people, you know, do these impact play scenes. I'm holding court. I love I love playing in public, like in public dungeons and things like that. I get fed the same kind of way I get that when I'm on stage, that that energy exchange between the people that are watching. And you can hear the ooze and the oz and like, what are they doing? It's very similar to being on stage. And so that was I feel really blessed. I kept my first burlesque act was kind of. It got to marry those two things together. But like the second time I performed was part of my recital with Burlesque 101. It was very nerve wracking. I was one of the bigger people in my program and I'm definitely not flexible. I am the first to tell people like if I if I end up on the floor, go ahead and turn the lights down. Fade to black. I'll roll off stage. We're done here. So, you know, it was a lot of it is like I had to learn how to hold my own on the stage in my body, knowing what my body's limitations were. And so I'm deeply known for being very expressive on stage, being able to emote very well on stage and just hold space. I do a lot of slow burns. I want people to have to look at my body. I like making people question lots of different things about themselves. I mean, I definitely love creating a queer panic. That's really helpful. I love that magic. But I also like people to kind of have a moment to face their preconceived notions about what a fat body is. And so being able to be on stage and hold that space and take my time and I fuck people and tease and titillate people, like my mission in life is to make one cis het straight dude in the audience have to go into his therapist the next, you know, the following week and be like, I need to readdress how I like how I how I think about attraction. It's a very powerful thing to be all that I am and then make people lean forward in their chair as I perform. That's the goal. I want peace. I want to move people either physically or emotionally when I'm on stage. In the burlesque community, you've clearly been very well received. But when you come out into the wider audience and after the show, what has been the reaction you get from folks? You get a mix of I like when other fat folks approach me after a show and you just have these beautiful moments where, like, there's no words said. They're just there's hand holding. And there's a lot of a lot of happening, a lot happening between you or, you know, you know, a fat babe comes up to you and they're just like, you know, thank you for being here. Thank you. Thank you for letting me know what's possible. Like that stuff is beautiful. The what I get a lot is straight sized people. Oh, my gosh, you're so brave. I could never. And I'm like, yeah, bitch, you could never. You literally could never like you could never telling someone that is in a body that you find to be a challenging body, that they're so brave is not it's not the compliment that you think it is, you know, at all. And so there's a lot of that. A lot of you're so brave. I could never do this. Like, I wish I had your confidence. It's never about the talent. It's never about how I actually made them feel right. It is it's kind of this backhanded. You have joy and I don't understand why you have joy. You have this platform and I don't understand who told you that you could have this platform. Like what gives like what is so special about you? That you get to be here entertaining me and I and I paid money to see this. That is the underlying vibe when that kind of spilled out of someone's mouth. You know, I'm not received well in spaces that have, you know, that have deeply preconceived notions about what about whatever less body should look like. So usually those are like corporate gigs. You know, a lot of a lot of plus size performers don't get booked for corporate gigs because they're booking for the male gaze. What I really like about the majority of burlesque I get to be a part of is it's actually treated for like an AFAB gaze. Like, you know, like a science gaze is definitely treated for a very queer gaze. Men, cishet men are very secondary to what is even not even secondary. It's like tertiary. No one really cares. In a lot of the spaces I get to perform in and get to produce shows. And I really could give I could give two shits what a man thinks about my body and my art and what I'm doing. I'm more deeply invested in that, that queer, that queer or that person in the back that is questioning things. And they get to have an epiphany moment of like, oh. I like this. And I want to I want to continue to question this or all this is reaffirming to my queerness. It's not reaffirming to my sexuality or my gender or lack thereof. Like that's where the juiciness is. You bring up the male gaze versus the AFAB gaze and the queer gaze, and those are all very different. We focus a lot, at least in academics and scholarship and stuff around the male gaze and how that shapes things. But the queer gaze does not translate into the same way. So do you want to talk a little bit about what the the queer gaze is? You know, I with the queer gaze, I really. I feel like I'm still formulating what it is. I love talking about this. I love concepts and ideas. Right. And I just know that I feel like with like with the queer gaze, it really is coming from a place of I don't know if I want to be them. I don't know if I want to fuck them. And maybe it's a little bit in between. I also think it comes from a place of like admiration. Right. Of like I admire, I admire, I admire the queerness that I am seeing reflected to me as someone in this audience. Right. I also think there's a little bit of like community element to this, like the queer gaze is like, is this community? Yes. Nice. You know, so like I think there's a little bit like there's a lot of these different pieces in it. But I really feel like the queer gaze is this ongoing conversation. You know, I, I, I joke a lot that like I don't know when other like AFAB folks are flirting with me, you know, all the time. Just like I don't know how to flirt with them and they don't know how to flirt. And I don't know if they're flirting with me. And this feels to me like almost a very like kind of almost a universe I have felt has been like a universal phenomenon for, you know, things that like them or what have you. Right. And I just started dating an AFAB person, a non-binary person who they're like, that has never been my experience. Like, I know what I'm being flirted with. And I and I flirt aggressively. And I just was like, oh, I just thought you and I were just pals. Just pals being pals over here. And like, you know, I'm just like, oh, what I thought was kind of more of a universal, you know, AFAB queer experience is not, you know, for some folks. I'm just like, oh, my gosh, teach me your flirting ways and teach me how to be able to identify whether or not this person that has been eating me out for the past six weeks is just being really friendly. I really like my sparkling personality. And I think that there is something that is both universal and uniquely non-binary queer in that, because I have been out since I was 14. I am 50 now, and I have never been able to flirt with women. Like when I found out lesbians used to give each other broccoli before, like you could be out publicly as a sign of, like, I like you in a romantic way. I'm like, can we go back to that? Because I could give somebody a broccoli. Absolutely. Like, yeah. I mean, I remember one of the first dates I went on with a woman. I was like, just tormented about what to bring. Like, do I bring flowers? That feels like such a gentlemanly thing to do. And that's not really necessarily my vibe here. And I'm going back and forth about all this. And I showed up with slippers. I bought this woman slippers. And as I handed her the bag, I'm just like, I just want to make sure that your feet aren't cold. And it was I just felt so awkward and silly. And they open up this gift and they're just like this. What a what a weird but fantastic gift to give someone on a first date. And I'm like, flowers seemed weird. You know, it's very, very awkward. And I think also, like. Being being fat in queer is is fascinating. The I feel the queer community, you know, as it continues to grow and shift and we kind of lean into, like, what is what is it to be queer? There's just a lot of fat phobia in, like, LGBTQIA community. Right. And so that is also kind of always been the fears like I'm in this fat body. I want to you know, I want to be with I want to like be with both the havers. And OK, what's happening? And then and then having personal issues with like, well, I don't like how my stomach is hanging over. And so, like, I'm not sure how I'm not sure how that's going to be seen by, you know, this a bad person that I'm with. And just I I've had more body image issues of being in a fat body with like wanting to be with a fat people than with men. Mostly because it's like with men, especially men. Right. If they want to fuck you, they want to fuck you. Like whatever. And usually at that point, I'm just like, I'm just really looking to get thrown down and call it a day and send them. Catch and release, send them off on their way. There is there's just something inherently more vulnerable about someone that has similar parts to yours. And then you're like, and now you're just like much bigger with this body. And so that has been my journey in a fat body, like at least over the past six years or so of like body acceptance. And also like realizing how much of that has been affecting my ability to connect with a fat people. It's a fear of. Well, they're not going to want my fat body on them. Right. Or my stuff is just too it's too it's too much bigger than their stuff or whatever it is. Right. And so that has been my work kind of undoing what that internalized that phobia over the past six years. Like the pandemic really helped me alleviate a lot of that. I had a lot of time to sit and think about it. But it's really funny how how and when your internalized that phobia kind of pokes its head. And for me, it's always why I'm splitting with a fat people. That's interesting. On the show, we've had a number of gay men talk about fat phobia in the gay male community, especially the cis gay male community. And, you know, that's pretty clear by the the types of bodies that are featured in advertisements, but sex, porn, all of that. For for, you know, folks who are are queer and sleeping with women, a fat folks, somebody in that spectrum. It's less talked about. And so for you, where are you finding support in the journey toward body acceptance as a queer, non-binary person? Because there's not a lot. There really isn't a lot. You know, it's it's I've been finding a lot of like my support, like through. Through this journey of creating FatCon, through this journey of creating Fat Less Fest Northwest, connecting with like other burlesque babes, connecting with kink babes. I last year co-facilitated a like kink and fat phobia workshop with a good friend of mine. And when we had announced we're going to be doing this workshop, people were just like, oh, no, no, no, no. Kink is really fat friendly. Like we don't we we're not that phobic at all. And I was like, OK, I'm like, well, let's talk about like trying to buy fetish wear as a fat person and how it's a special order. And there's like the huge fat tax on top of it. So it kind of pushes you out. Let's talk about how much weight some of this equipment can actually handle and carry. Let's talk about how when you ask a rope top, you know, do you have experience tying fat? People may tell you, oh, it's exactly the same as tying straight sized people. And you're like, no, it's not like it's not. I don't even know why you're lying and playing in my face. Don't do it. Or if they're if they can't get hard. They don't want to tie you. Right. And the list can go on and on and on. And so this idea of like, where do you find support? I have found it like through like. Unfortunately, having to create these things and realizing that the people that should be in these workshops, getting this information so that they can do better, aren't showing up. And so community and people looking for community end up showing up. And so that's when you end up finding those connections and stuff like that. It's really it's really unfortunate. You end up kind of preaching to the choir in some cases, but you end up finding amazing community that way. So I've been really fortunate that like through FEMDOM community, surprisingly, has been deeply queer and a really beautiful safe haven, at least up in the area that I am, for non-binary trans folks to kind of land into. So I found some really beautiful community in there. Again, we started this Fat Less, Best Northwest back in 2023. Just this cross-section of community that came together for this to happen. This created a really amazing support system of like, hey, is this a thing that you're experiencing? And also, I continue to be ridiculously surprised at how many AFAB folks involved in Burlesque are gay as hell. Just gay. Oh, yeah. Like so gay. Like gay, gay, gay. Right. And you're just like, oh, so you're out here doing this beautiful high FEM burlesque that someone might think is actually for the male gays. And it's like you haven't touched a dick since a bush has been in office. Wonderful. Love that line. So you've brought up so much stuff I want to talk to you about. So let's talk about being high FEM. You are non-binary. Yes. And people often associate being non-binary with somehow this obligatory androgyny. Yes. And you and I both fall into the category of being very non-binary and high FEM. So for you, what is high FEM if it's not a gender identity? Oh, I've seen high FEM is a queer identity. Being FEM is a queer identity. I always say that being queer to me is like it's not just my sexuality, it's my politic, it's my aesthetic, it's the way they move through the world. And high FEM is this additional signifier of that queerness. And I mean, I think that I fell into a high FEM mostly because of how just clothing, right? Like, you know, it's hard to find. I think it's really hard to find gender affirming clothing and the things I want. Like I would love to be like a dapper high FEM. Like, you know, like it's really hard to find find the stuff or find it in my price range. So I've leaned really into I want to be comfortable as much as humanly possible. And skirts and dresses are very, very comfortable. But yeah. My high FEM-ness, I think, also just comes with a lot of like how I do my makeup, the wigs that I like to wear. I like to wear really bright, beautiful, you know, colorful wigs as much as humanly possible. I have a shaved head most of the time. And I also thought my most high FEM and my most queer with this shaved head, because it's like that I'm wearing the big, long earrings are really over accentuating my makeup. My love for makeup runs deep. There is unopened boxes of eyeshadow palettes hidden in various parts of my office and bathroom, probably in my bedroom, like everywhere. Just like I have my little emergency pockets of makeup. You know, and I think it's also the way they kind of interact with the world around me. And and my partners have been polyamorous and I have five partners. And there is something about being this non-binary high FEM and expecting chivalrous behavior. I live for it. But there is like an over the top. There is almost a caricature of femininity that I like. I like the performativeness of that as part of my identity, too. So it's like, OK, well, if I'm going to wear combat boots, I'm going to wear the combat boots that are baby pink and covered in rhinestones. And I'm going to wear this cute baby pink beret with cat ears. And we're just going to go on about our day with a shirt that probably says, like, worth their clit and not their nerves. And off into the world we go. And I feel like my high FEM-ness, like, I didn't realize how high FEM I truly was until I started dating another non-binary person who is like on a very dapper kind of they have like a they have a really cute kind of suck boy vibe to them. That I'm just really into with like this kind of like dapper look. And I have never felt more high FEM next to this person. It's like a really weird queer wedding cake, you know, kind of vibe when we're together. We kind of naturally like to coordinate our outfits and stuff like that. They love their velvets and their, you know, their jacquard fabrics. And, you know, they're always just like, what is the theme of today's outfits? And I'm just like, this is the gayest shit I've heard. Yes, outfits. We did have outfit themes for today. But it's really I think it's really allowed me to truly embrace like I always identified as FEM, but recently really started identifying as high FEM because it's been it was it was really pointed out to me that, like, this is the way that you move through the world. So high FEM, especially for those of us who came out in the 70s and 80s, were always very thin, white dykes. So that's not you. So where do you find your inspiration for high FEM as a non-binary, black, bigger body person in the world? A lot of my inspiration actually comes from like fellow like like just fellow black FEMs and like and like black women. There is a beautiful burlesque performer out here named the Goddess Brickhouse. And I just love how she carries herself. And so there's just like that. I, you know, I really kind of aspire to kind of like a Janelle Monae kind of vibe, like in color pattern and things like that. I used to think I really wanted to dress, I really wanted to dress like Audrey Hepburn. Like that was kind of like my weird, like, like style icon for a really long time. And so I'm just like, how, like, why? I'm like, it was just simple lines. I think it was just simple, simple lines. And then a lot of my other inspiration really comes from just like being in the burlesque and drag scene and just seeing the fashion that comes out of there. It's just amazing. But I feel really fortunate that a lot of a lot of like. A lot of it is just instinctual. My mom was a model before I was born and into like my early toddler, toddler time, my mom was also an esthetician. So I've grown up with like makeup and skincare being like top priority. And my mom was very big on like dressing well, looking nice. Do not leave the house without your eyebrows penciled in ever, you know, kind of thing. And so there's a lot of this like it wasn't like how to be a lady. That's not the vibe. It was how to be like this artful version of yourself, I think, is how my mom was just like, let's be the most artful us. And so for her, it was her makeup was like this art, art medium and the texturing color of the clothes. I don't I don't really have a relationship with my mother at all anymore. She's very homophobic. She's all the phobics, you know, all the isms, which is wild. But I think that a lot of my height and this comes from. Kind of her flair for the dramatic when it came to. Hair, makeup and and fit, you know, out in the world. And so I think it's really funny that a CIS hat. Woman, black woman has been like the most influential in like my hyphen this. Yeah. So with the hyphen as your gender expression, to put it in kind of the current vernacular, how we just delineate things, what is being non binary mean to you? I have never felt either. I've never felt particularly masculine or particularly feminine. I have always felt extremely KIA, extremely pox my whole life. I have I have me and I. I just and me is has always been very. Chameleon like in some ways, depending on who I'm interacting with and and and what people's needs are for me. So knowing what my role is in the life of the people around me and sometimes those roles require various different aspects of who I am and might require more of this kind of mothering, nurturing kind of human. And sometimes it kind of needs more of this kind of tough love, kind of daddy vibe. And sometimes, you know, so there's just kind of always been this kind of push and pull of like. Whatever, whatever I'm vibing with with a person is like what these person I like, the personality traits of me that become more prevalent or more needed for the function or role that I am providing in someone's life in that moment or what have you. And so I didn't really know. I didn't. The first non-binary person I met was about eight or nine years ago. They were 18 years old. I just started college and they. They're like, hey, I'm non-binary and my initial reaction is just like, what the fuck are you talking about? Like, what even is this? And. Listening to them talk and how, like, self-assured they were and just like what it was and what it meant to them. I remember this just initial feeling of like. Anger and rage in my body, just anger and rage in my body. I thought, you know, for for a few months, I thought I just did not like this person. Like and that's not what that anger and rage, that anger and rage was like that. I had no clue this was an option. And this, you know, this 18 year old is going to get to live their their adult life. Clear in their identity. And I feel like I'm back at zero now. And that that anger and rage wasn't at them. It just happened to be the person delivering the news that anger and rage was just like. This has to exist outside of the context of this 18 year old. This is not this is not like a new concept. And I am pissed that I had been gatekept from them and pissed that this has been buried in such a way that this is fucking news to me. You know, as a. Twenty eight, twenty nine year old person, you know, and it still took me some time. I came out as non-binary as I was building my burlesque persona. And I had that aha moment of like, that's what that anger and rage was. I remember sending this person a message years later. Years later, like when I came out as non-binary, I sent a message. I'm just like, I need to thank you and apologize. And like you can deal with this information as you see fit. But thank you for being the first person to let me know that it's OK. That's just OK. It's just OK to be. And. It's been a road, but like I just I remember this anger and this rage of. Society kept this from me. But the world has kept this from me. The world is keeping this from other people. And, you know, we've got politicians still trying to do that and eliminate it. Yeah, they can eat shit. What a while to be alive. As you come into a non-binary identity, how has it changed the relationship with your own body? I feel like it's made me it's made me embrace my body a lot more. It's also made me a lot more vocal about like the lack of. Like access to super cute clothes for fat people like I've already I've known that and I've always been, you know, kind of pissy about it. I feel like I got even more vocal if I came out as a non-binary person. So I'm paying the fat tax for my pink clothes. I'm paying the fat tax for my burlesque costuming. I'm paying the fat tax in my day to day life. I'm like I'm tired of paying the fat tax. For being in this body and like and trying to find gender euphoria and in my kink wear and like the costume and building for burlesque and in my day to day life. Yeah, I think it's also it's also made my vagina more. My pussy is more exclusive now like in terms of like what we're trying to accept and not accept. I always joke that, you know, I like I know that sexuality is not a choice because if it was to be no men in my life. And like I said, I have five partners right now and four of them are men. Three cishet men. And well, they think there's no that's not fair. One cishet man, one definitely queer man and then a bisexual man. And then one of my partners, we got together. They were non-binary kind of femme. And now they are trans man. And so that was like an interesting road to go on together. And so, yeah, I just think, man, like if sexuality wasn't a choice, none of these dudes would be here. Get out of here. Like piss off. Yeah, I joke about it all the time because, you know, I was mainly with women for most of my life. And then after my divorce, I somehow fell in love with a straight cis man. And I was like, this was not on the agenda. Yeah. I remind them all the time how lucky they are to be here and they know they're lucky to be here. There's all I say that people are just like kind of appalled at first. And like I've been like I'm in a service dynamic with all of these these four men. I am their dominant. And so like that's also part of the game. But they do recognize that they are lucky to be here because I'm just like. It's annoying. I'm like, you guys are like you guys are some of the good ones. Like just maybe that's it, you know. But like. Also, I know that sexuality is not a choice, but there are so many heterosexual women that are just like the bar for men is in hell. It is in hell. And I'm so sorry that you're in this hell. I wasn't going to bring this up, but I read about this. And it just kind of like it's now in my head after saying this, the Bumble, the dating app, had a fucking swing and a miss of a marketing campaign. Right. Where there's just like, you know, celibacy isn't the answer. You know, this whole campaign and God, did they miss the mark? But like thinking about that, I'm just like. Yeah, like that's I mean, that is that is definitely how you know that sexuality is not a choice. These women are who are, you know, straight, you know, women are just like, like, I am definitely not attracted to women. And it's it is too much of a risk. I'm getting off these dating apps. I'm not participating in the hookup culture. I don't want to accidentally get pregnant with one of these dudes' babies in one of these freaking states, you know, where I'm going to have to carry this baby. I'd rather be celibate. I'd rather just not, you know, and like, you know, it's. That is a giant proof, if we ever want to have a giant proof of how sexuality is not a choice. Like. And it's. Instead of treating it like the wake up call that they should, you know, like, what the fuck? These men are doubling and tripling down. Something's just wrong with the women. Something's just wrong with the women. Think about the mass hysteria. I should go like these bitches want to go hang out with bears, you know, like that is where they're at in their brains. I'm just like, yes, we do. We'd rather we'd rather take our chances with the goddamn bear. You know, I see it. I feel it. It's wild. And I think that, like, as a fat person, especially like in who's, you know, out in the dating world, still as a poly person. Shit's rough. You think it's rough for you straight size, you know, you know, heterosexual cis women. It's rough out here across the board for anyone who's even remotely perceived with a with have a vulva. And as a fat person, they truly think that you should just be happy with what you get. You should be happy that they're willing to even touch you. And I'm like, no, not them. I go home to two men at night. No. I don't have to be happy with your scraps. Well, and there's this perception that if you're fat, you should always be happy and never give pushback. And it's it's challenging. Right. And to create something where you're going, no, I have standards. I have self-respect. People react in a lot of ways. But what's the type of reaction you've gotten when you've gotten when you've been on the apps or out dating and said, I'm just not interested in you? Oh, I get called a fat bitch immediately. Immediately. Fat bitch. Like, did I just magically become fat? Because this is the first I'm hearing about it. Like, it's just it's so weird how you can go from being something that someone that they are flirting with and trying to make air quotes, a genuine connection with to the flip on the dime of you fat bitch and no one's going to want you and blah, blah, blah. It's wild. It's yeah. But it's usually is definitely a quick jump to the low, the lowest hanging fruit. And that is that you're fat. Right. I was at the airport in Panama last year. We flew down to Panama so I could be a part of a festival down there. And I went with one of my partners who is he's pretty straight size. I like flying with him, especially internationally, because he's got like thin, thin hips. I could just kind of lap into his seat. It's great. He likes it. I like it. And he's like, you know, a fairly good looking, you know, blonde, blonde hair, blue eyed, kind of all American boy kind of vibe. Right. And me being who I am, like, is the whole thing. And so we're standing in line to get the security and these two white dudes just like cut in front of us, like just very blatantly cut in front of us. And I wasn't quite about it. Like, we're right here. Like, we're literally right here. Like. And one of them turned back to me and called me a fat bitch. And I was just like, I'm sorry, you said what? Like, you're going to have to say it again because I didn't understand you, you fat bitch. And I'm just like, hmm. I'm like, what are you, like 50? Like, this is all you have. Like, aren't you like you're an adult, like you're solidly an adult. And you're going to call someone a fat bitch because you because you got caught doing something wrong. And so me and this guy are going through security back and forth with each other. And he starts mooing like a cow and stuff like that. And I'm just like, are you an adult? I couldn't imagine as a woman wanting to actually sleep with you. So I'm just wondering, like, when's the last time you got fucked that you didn't have to pay for it? And so he's just like not knowing how to deal with this. My partner, unfortunately, he gets flagged by security. I don't. And this guy doesn't. And we're like going back and forth with each other. And then he goes, I could never imagine anyone fucking you. And I'm just like. Right. Dude, I have like five partners. This is whatever. And so, unfortunately, what ends up happening is he's still kind of doing his shit. My partner gets finished with security. He comes up and he gets like he hears a little bit of it. And he just like wraps his hand around my waist and gives me a kiss on the cheek. And he goes. Like, I can't wait till we get home so I can like. Fuck you. And I'm like. You have a great day, sir. You know, kind of thing. And off we go. But like, it doesn't matter who you're with or anything like that. If these folks want to fat shame you and go through their whole shit. But like this guy felt so confident that I wouldn't defend myself. He was definitely shocked I was defending myself and going toe to toe to him. And then I was out here alone in the world traveling to it kind of left a sour taste in his mouth. But it's just like Chad with the receding hairline, wherever you are at in the world. I mean, it's from the bottom of my heart. Fucking grow up. Like, it's so weird that people existing pisses off fat phobic people like nothing else. Us just sitting there being unbothered and breathing pisses them off. God forbid you fuck around and smile and be happy. I don't like it. I love just posting videos of me eating on the Internet because it enrages them. Oh, yeah. Like, how can you like food? How can you brag about eating? The food is delicious. That food is delicious. I'm a hedonist. Okay. I like I like nice clothes that have a nice texture to them. I like food. I like delicious food. I love delicious food. I love delicious experiences. I am a hedonist. I would be a hedonist even if I wasn't fat. Food is delicious. It is meant to fucking be enjoyed. Like, people who eat for just sustenance alone, like, and that's actively what they do. I don't get it. And I'm like, I wish you luck in your endeavors. But there is something so magical about, like, the first bite of, like, a piece of, like, hamachi's sashimi and the texture of that raw fish and how it kind of melts in your mouth. And I'm like, that's a sensual experience. And I want to eat that off of my partner's body badly. And I just want to turn it into a whole fucking thing. Like, food is meant to be enjoyed. And, yeah, these folks who just hate fat people, like, God forbid you eat. God forbid that you do something that they don't think fat people should be able to do. I see more fat people do the splits than straight-sex people in my entire life. Like, all the time. And I think this is actually a really good segue into Fat Con. I was just going to bring that up because I fucking think Fat Con's brilliant. So let's talk about it. Okay. So in the middle of the pandemic, so back into 2020, 2021, a good friend of mine in Atlanta, Rula Roulette, who is an amazing burlesque performer, producer, and she runs a burlesque academy called the Metropolitan Dance Studio. She's great. And I reached out to her. I'm like, we should do a plus-size virtual burlesque show because nobody's doing it. Like, there's all these other virtual burlesque things happening, but there wasn't one that's specifically about fat folks. And she was like, yeah, let's do this. And so we were putting this together, and I started realizing that, like, the last, like, fat thing I got to be involved in was back in 2018 when we had the world's first all-fat burlesque festival called Bucks and Blaze Burlesque Fest in Austin, Texas. And that's produced by Ginger Snaps and Ruby Sincere. And it was my first burlesque festival. And honestly, it kind of ruined me because, like, I haven't, like, up until we did Fatless Fest, I hadn't really experienced anything like this. And as we're putting this together, I keep thinking, okay, okay, we need to do a festival. And so there's been other, like, big plus-size, like, big shows, couple-day shows, but we're like, let's, we need another festival, let's do it. I'm like, okay, I want to do the festival. And I am the person that it's really hard for me to kind of half-ass. And so some friends of mine before the pandemic started were going to put together, like, a one-day, like, plus-size event with some workshops and some entertainment and stuff like that. And so I reached out to them, and I'm like, okay, what if we did a convention? And they're like, what? And I'm like, let's do a convention. And, like, during the day we have the workshops, and then at night we do the burlesque festival. And it's all in-house. And they're like, okay. And so 2020, 2022, we started looking at hotels and venues in the, like, greater Puget Sound area of Seattle. So we're looking outside of downtown Seattle. We're looking at some of the neighborhoods. We found a place we really loved, and we started, you know, talking about pricing and, like, looking at all the stuff. And I think they got a little sticker shock. You know, I, things cost what they cost. Money freaks me out, but things cost what they cost. And I think, like, the food and beverage minimum was, like, $30,000 or something like that, you know. It's big. It's a big, big thing. That's really high. It's high. But they're giving you the whole ball, like, all the balls in the space. Right. Right. So. Right. But it's really scary. And so it kind of sputtered out. And I'm just like, okay. I'm like, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to do the burlesque festival in 2023. And if it goes well, I'm going to bring this con thing happening. So we actually launched a lot of our, you know, the Fat Con is coming, I think, in, like, mid to late 2022. Maybe even earlier. So it's kind of been out here for a minute that we're going to be doing this. And then, yeah, Fat West Fest Northwest was born. We did it. Three nights. All sold out. Standing room only. It was just such a beautiful experience. Like, yeah, fuck it. Let's just do a convention. We toured a bunch of places in downtown Seattle. We found the perfect place. All right. We're going to do Fat Con. Fat Con is going to happen during the day at the hotel. Fat West Fest is still going to happen in the evening. How do I do this? I have worked for, I've been volunteering with Kink Fest down in Portland, Oregon, for eight years as the merchandise director. And it wasn't until about three years ago with the newest director, executive director that they had there, that I kind of learned, like, what actually went into putting this event together. Because I would order my stuff for the merch. I'd show up. I'd sell some T-shirts and kind of leave. And this was the first time I felt like I was invited into this process. And so after kind of seeing the process, I'm like, oh, this is how we can make this thing happen. And I brought in a really great team. So I brought in Candice Frank, who is the owner of Childrug Clothing. I brought in Lori Collins, who is an amazing visual artist and draws fat babes and tiny underpants. Kind of my right-hand and go-to person that I do a lot of my burlesque production stuff with is Stormy Chance, who is an incredible burlesque performer. She's known as the solution specialist of burlesque. And, fuck, she's so good at what she does. And then we brought in Vixen Valentine, who is an amazing burlesque producer as well, but also has a huge background in theater and film. And so we're like, yep, that's what we need. And they also used to be a part of a convention team as well. And then we brought in this amazing human affiliate, Dagger, who is one of the production managers of the Seattle Erotic Arts Festival, which is a multi-day event. So a lot of us had multi-day event stuff under our belt. But still, you don't know what you don't know. And our goal was just really simple, like at least 30 hours of programming, bring in some good keynotes. We're going to have a fashion show with a brunch. We're going to have vendors. Let's go. Let's see what happens. And it was, you know, like we weren't necessarily well-received at first. You know, like people were excited, but there's also, I think a lot of us fat people are used to being burned. Like we're used to investing and getting our hopes up and then kind of getting left behind. And so they're used to getting burned. And so we were just like, OK, we get it. And then, you know, there's a lot of talk about, like, how expensive the event was and things like that. You know, it is what it is. I recognize that, like, not everyone can afford $250 to go to an event, a three-day event. You know, I get it. And a lot of that is, you know, it was our first year of, like, securing sponsors and trying to figure out ways to kind of subsidize that stuff. And so kind of my go-to response was just, like, next year if you have suggestions on how we can find more sponsors or grants to subsidize this, I would totally welcome that. And that's not me being an asshole or anything like that. I welcome more ideas of how we can do these things better. I'm not willing to compromise on the venue location kind of thing. I think I want it to and need it to happen at a really nice hotel with a convention center because of the accessibility of it. I want people to be able to roll out of bed, slap on what they want to slap on, and go down to the convention space and be able to go. Or they don't have to go outside to access it or anything like that. Right? So you pay for those conveniences. You pay for those access points. That's what it is. But we were fairly successful. We sold out, which is lovely. And then something really weird happened leading up to the event. About a week before the event, we went viral in not the best way. We went viral because conservative talking heads picked us up. We were briefly connected to an amazing fat liberationist human named Jay Bay who does a lot of fat travel stuff. And she had gone viral because an article had just come out about fat travel. And people were acting like this was the first time in the history of all ever that they had heard about this shit and lost their minds. Not realizing that both of these policies with Alaska Airlines and Southwest are preexisting. These are not new. They're just new to you. And so because of her connection to us, we ended up with a lot of additional backlash. And so a lot of digging into Fat Con and stuff like that. We started getting a shit ton of news requests for press in those days leading up to it. A lot of Fox News shenanigans. A lot of Como, which out here is a conservative radio stuff. And so we had to be really picky about it and kind of figure out who was legit. And it was really disheartening because we had sent out a shit ton of press releases. You know, a shit ton. And none of these more fair or balanced organizations even remotely were interested or reached out to us. Until the very end we got one. It was Converge Media, which is a black-owned media company out here in Seattle. And they ran a lovely article a week after the event. You know. And so, like, we ended up getting contacted by the Daily Mail. And the Daily Mail was like, we want to send someone out to take pictures. And we're like, what? Not interview us, but take pictures. And we're like, no, you are not welcome here. A person showed up anyway and tried to get into the event on three separate occasions. We ended up calling in for additional security. We had our local chapter of Dykes on Bikes showed up for us. So, love Dykes on Bikes. And then the hotel security was amazing. Like, they were like, we monitor Internet chatter surrounding any events that are happening in our space. So, we know what's going on. Like, that's great. And so, we were able to keep our, you know, our attendees safe. We were able to keep ourselves safe. Right? We did have groups of young men showing up to the event, trying to get in so they could see what they could see. And so, we, you know, had them escorted out of the building. I think we had, like, three or four groups of men throughout the weekend. And it was, like, young men, like, under the age of 30. You know. Just wanted to see the spectacle. And I took, I did two interviews. And one of the interviews was with a woman who used to be fat. She'd lost a lot of weight. And I don't think the interview went the way that she thought it was going to go. You know, I think she came in with a lot of preconceived notions. And I think I fucked her up a little bit. And I'm really proud of that. Where I was just like, you know, like, I think, I think what is more harmful are people that spit, you know, disparaging remarks about people that they've never fucking met just because they can't see themselves wanting to have sex with a fat person. And, like, that's, that's more harmful than someone actually being fat. And, you know, like, that's not great. And one of the questions that she asked me was, like, well, what if someone wants to talk about, like, losing weight? Like, will that be accepted there? And I'm just like, like, all of our workshops are listed on our website. Like, if someone wants to come here and have, like, a whole kumbaya about how much they hate their body and they want to lose weight, they would not waste the money to come to this event to do that. So, you know, it was really beautiful. We had Tigress Osborne as one of our keynotes. We had Alana Boutte, who is an amazing burlesque performer and producer based in Oakland. And she was actually part of Leonard Nimoy's Body Project. A lot of folks may not realize this, but Leonard Nimoy was a photographer and has a book on, like, less-sized bodies. It's a beautiful book. And so a lot of us were part of that. You know, we had some really amazing invited speakers. We brought in Saucy West, who's also based in the Bay. And we brought in Fierce Fat Sam, Angelina, just great, great people. And, you know, at the end of the event, I was deeply pleased. People were happy. People were fed. People were watered. You know, everyone's good. And I was kind of on the fence about whether or not I could mentally and emotionally do it again. It's a big lift. It's a very big lift. But we are. So FATCON 2025 is a go. And it is January 30th through February 2nd. No, January 31st through February 2nd. We have a new venue. Tickets are on sale now. Find that link on our Instagram at thefatcon. And we're just gearing up to announce our keynotes and our invited speakers. So that will be probably by the time y'all are listening to this, we'll probably have announced our first person. And, yeah, ticket sales are already exceeding expectations. We've only, the tickets have only been on sale for a week, which is wild. We're really excited to bring it back. And we're bringing on some new team members. There are a lot of folks that really want to be involved in FAT liberation. And they're just like, but does it just stop at fashion? And that's kind of a big thing for us is, like, fashion is the gateway, you know? Like, clothing is the gateway. But we're here to talk about that, you know, fatness in the arts, fatness, you know, in fitness, fatness in nature, fat legislation, how to build fat community. I mean, fat fashion is always going to be there. Like, we have it. We have a vendor area and stuff like that. You know, it's like, I got clothes that fit me and that I love. Now what? Now what do I do? And so that is part of it. And when I was talking to one of our keynotes the other day, and I was just, like, trying to sum up of, like, what are we trying to do with FatCon? Because it's not all things to all people. Some people are going to really love the experience and some people will be like, oh, man, it's not what I wanted it to be. FatCon really is a place for fat people to experience and celebrate joy. It's, like, it's really that simple. And I think, like, it being that broad is important because that could look like many different things to different people. So I'm really proud of FatCon. I'm deeply proud of the work that we've done with FatLessFest Northwest, which will be heading into its third year. And, you know, all of this is just, it's still bonkers to me. You know, when I got started doing burlesque, I didn't think that I would be a part of the fat liberation movement. I hadn't even heard of that phrase, you know. I was still just, you know, still processing body positivity movement and how it had kind of gotten, you know, commandeered by straight size white women that do yoga. I feel like I'm still reeling from that, of how that appropriation happened, you know. But, you know, I tell people all the time that kink saved my life. Burlesque has been my compass to find out what I'm going to do more of. And kink led me to burlesque, and burlesque has led me to just this world where me and my black, fat, queer, non-binary, disabled body, that I can manifest so many amazing and creative things and get to connect with so many people. And really the essence of all of this work that I do is centered strongly in community building. Like, it's, I would be nowhere without community. And I think that that is probably one of the most powerful things about the fat liberation movement is that fat folks are finding community. We're not just the fat friend in a group anymore. It makes me really emotional thinking about it, right? Like, how many of us were the fat friend in our group? And now we are of the fat friends. And it's beautiful and enriching and amazing, but it really chokes me up when I think about, you know, 16-year-old pups being the fat friend in their group and having to hear people say such horrible things about their bodies in front of me and not even thinking about it. It's wild. And there's something amazing when you bring community together who is getting okay being in their own skin and the power that that can unleash. And that's why I love following your work is what you're doing is bringing people together. And I saw, you know, people who were at Fat Con coming out of it and just like, okay, I'm into the next step now. Like, I found my people and let's go change the world. And it was phenomenal. And I'm so excited about Fat Con 2025. Yeah, I'm really excited about it. And I'm so glad that people are finding out about it and it's speaking to them and they want to be here and be with us and that the work is reaching the people that it needs to reach. Yeah, it does make me really emotional. I cried so much throughout Fat Con this year, so much, lots of tears for various different reasons. But one of the overwhelming reasons was just like, it's a place where community can be found. What are you currently grateful for? Right now, I am grateful for my chosen family and my partners. My health has been all over the place the past year. I was diagnosed with autism, so I'm autistic. And last year, I was diagnosed with Bell's palsy and lost the muscle function left out of my face with a very, very busy work travel season with burlesque. And I ran for Mick's Washington State Leather and all of that and the whole thing. And my chosen family and my partners have really continued to come through for me and like just in ways I just didn't think I would ever need. And yeah, I would be lost without these amazing, incredible human beings. I'm grateful for that. I'm grateful for love that is romantic and platonic and feels like family and self-love. Like, yeah, it's like family and love. Like, it's so healing. That's wonderful. So if folks want to buy tickets to Fat Con, if they want to follow you, if they want to hire you for a burlesque show, if they want to go to Fat Less, plug all the sites and socials and all that good stuff. Perfect. Instagram, I feel like, is where it's at, right? Like right now, because you can kind of put everything everywhere. So you can follow me at PucksAplenty on Instagram. You can follow Fat Con at TheFatCon. Fat Less Fest Northwest is Fat Less Fest NW. Yes, Northwest NW. You can also send me an e-mail at production at gmail.com at any time. I answer e-mails fairly quickly. And then you can check out my website, MixedPucksAplenty.com. And so I not only do burlesque stuff, but I'm also a BDSM and sexuality educator. I have spoken at the University of Washington, Brown University, Antioch. And so if you're looking for someone just to come and talk about poly, cake, whatever, and the intersection of whatever I am at, I would love to. Please. That's my favorite kind of work. I love coming to speak at schools and colleges and events. It's fun. And listeners will have all of those links and more in the show notes as always. Thank you for all of your work. Thank you for being here. It's been wonderful chatting with you. Oh, my gosh. Thank you for having me. Have a great day, y'all.
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