1996-07_06 Vipassana Retreat, Part 6 of 8 - Q&A 2

Talk: 19960706-Larry_Rosenberg-UNK-vipassana_retreat_part_6_of_8-43310 Start_time: 00:58:10 Display_question: Do I just go back to the breath when the meditation instructions spur more thinking for me? Keyword_search: vipassana, samatha, Dzogchen, Soto Zen, thought, instructions, breath, culture, Buddha, original teaching, breathing, open, lost, steady, practice Question_content: Questioner: Yeah, it’s about that. It just seems that doing the second set of instructions, there's more fertile ground for thought. Larry: Yes. Questioner: Okay. Well, then I better get back to the breathing. Larry: That's right. Questioner: So I was just wondering if there's any other way to have that open. Is it just sort of well, you try it, and then if it doesn't work, you go back to the breathing, and you try it again and it doesn't work...? Larry: Well, you give it a little bit of time. It's not like a second at a time. But if you open it up and you find that you're getting caught in thought a lot, and typically that will happen. That's why I can't say this enough times. For most of us, it would be a very good idea: spend a lot of time on the simple breath Simple here doesn't mean, I'm not demeaning it. It's putting the mind in a condition so it can do what these second instructions are about. I feel that I should tell you what the second, even if you can't do it here, if you want to finish the retreat on just the breath, that's fine. But I'm planting some seeds, so you have some idea where this practice goes. It's not just setting an Olympic record of being with the breath uninterruptedly. It isn't. But it's pragmatic. Break_line: If you open it up and you're with your experience and it's not working, then go back to the breath. So, you don't need doctrine or theory. You can see you're getting lost; you're psychologizing. You're thinking, as you pointed out, things are out of focus and dull, and you're getting discouraged. Now, if you can look at the discouragement, then you're still in that field. But typically, it's hard to do. So then, go back to the breathing. Sometimes all it takes is a few breaths—in, out, in, out—and the mind is steady again. Sometimes you finish out the whole sitting or the whole day with the breath. That's where the artful part comes in. And again, it takes wisdom. You have to begin to see what you need. You have to guide your own practice. It's artful in that sense. Break_line: So, it's Samata Vipassana. The second part is Vipassana. It's Vipassana insofar as you're developing insight into impermanence and emptiness of self. I haven't talked about that, a little yesterday. So strictly speaking, you could do that with the breath, too. If you focus on the breathing and notice that the breath isn't permanent, and we'll do that this afternoon, then that's a very simple way of also seeing; that's an insight practice. And as you go deeply into that, you'll see that breathing is happening. But finally, you see you cannot find a breather. There's no breather. You say, “Well, what do you mean? I am breathing.” That's a thought. “I am.” Where's the breather? And at the inquiry, you find, but breathing is happening. This is a challenge to investigate whatever it is you think of as being you. Okay. Does that make sense? Questioner: Is this Dzogchen? Is it sort of the same thing? Larry: Well, there's a lot of overlap. They all came out of the Buddha's original teaching: Dzogchen, Soto Zen. At the beginning, the instructions are very different, and the cultural background is very different. But as you go deeper, of course, you leave culture behind. And so they meet at the same place. Yes. End_time: 01:01:35