1994-07_16 Breath Awareness Meditation As A Gateway To Living Wisdom - Q&A 4 - 5

Talk: 19940716-Larry_Rosenberg-IMSR-breath_awareness_as_a_gateway_to_living_wisdom_5-319.json Start_time: 00:34:23 Display_question: How do I use mindfulness to deal with conflict? Keyword_search: conflict, listen, internal, interpersonal, complicated, not listen, mind, rehearse, express, expression, art, listening, refinement, aversion, reaction, reaction, retreat, boss, response, awareness, aware, benign, let go, potency, right speech, space, mind, compassionate, patient, spacious, calm, water, salt, friction, ancients, bigger Question_content: Questioner: I was wondering if you could say something about conflict. Larry: Conflict. What kind of conflict? Internal? Questioner: Interpersonal… <inaudible>… like somebody I thought they were wrong. Larry: Okay. There's a number of different things mixed in there. I mean, we better slow down because it's getting more complicated the more you speak. Questioner: Well, I think… Larry: No, please. I just can't handle so much. Let's start out with listening. One of the main ways you learn how to listen–perhaps it's the main way–is that you start to hear how you're not listening. Rather than kind of, let's say, I want to listen to you. It's not so much I strain like that with my veins popping out as you're talking. It's more I'm just myself. And then as you're talking but, more and more, it's a much more delicate kind of process where I notice that while you're talking, I hear two or three sentences, and then suddenly my mind is rehearsing what it's going to say, and then it comes back. And then suddenly I don't like what you're saying. And then suddenly it's like, “Oh, that's a bunch of…” or whatever. But little by little, as you listen to when you're not listening, you come to listening by seeing that you're not listening. Okay, so that part, if you do it, you get clear enough. Now, but now what you're saying is something else. It's more about expressing yourself more? And you use the word conflict. Questioner: It seems like being a mindful listener is perhaps… Larry: My own experience because, like Michael and I, we have to do a lot of listening, like in interviews and stuff, but in life, everyone does. I would say that art has infinite refinement to it. I feel I'm just beginning to learn how to listen to another person because the nuances of it's not just only hearing what they're saying, you're hearing what they're not saying, the tone of the voice. So I think it's quite a challenge to listen. That's just been my experience. I'm sorry, I'm doing, the cut. Let's try again. Questioner: Let’s say you’re listening and you have that first reaction. And then you make ok, aversion, aversion, let it go. But you can’t just feel the aversion and always let it go. Very often, you have to react, and that reaction… and you can go off too far in that direction sometimes… Larry: Yeah. Life is very powerful, and we don't always have the luxury of let's say we're having a discussion. You say, “Oh. Time out. Give me five minutes to work with my reactions.” Your boss is nervously waiting for you. Okay. No, let me put it this way. But the way, in fact, it happens is we have to do the best we can. Part of why retreats are so wonderful is we attempt to set up ideal conditions. Even here, it's not ideal, but it's as close as we can get. The conditions have been set up to really help us get to know ourselves, to quiet down, to really take each thing to each bite carefully as we eat and so forth. But once you get into life, sometimes you can do it and sometimes not. Maybe this will help you. The difference between a reaction and a response–and in terms of conflict, that was the first word you used–the reaction is what we're already doing. We don't need training on how to do that. And that's a normal thing. There's nothing strange about it. The mind is just reacting. Break_line: Let's say you say something to me, I can't help my, if you prick me with a pin, I bleed. It's just lawful. You say something to me that's not very flattering. Then my body stiffens up and I don't like it. That's the way it happens. And then what comes out of that is defensive, aggressive. And then, that's reaction. As you practice, more and more, you become sensitive to your reactions. And your phrase was, if I remember it, become aware of it and then let it go. That sounds like pushing it away. I would say just be aware of it. Because if you're aware of it, you take a lot or eventually all the potency out of it. It's not dangerous, it's benign. But anyway, let's say what happens is something like this, and then we're going to bring it into real life in a moment. You and I are talking, and I feel a strong reaction and you get much better at being aware of the reaction. Sometimes all it needs is a second or two, you know. And the reaction subsides a little bit and then there's a bit of space. And that's, the breath can be very helpful there. Break_line: Like with right speech. Do you know that, you know, where speech should not be… it should be true, it should not be harsh, it shouldn't be idle, kind of nonsense, and it shouldn't be divisive, setting people off against each other. So sometimes all that stands between you and wrong speech is one or two breaths. You're just about to and you're like hanging onto a breath for dear life, but you don't say it. And then you have another chance to phrase it in a way that is not going to be an assault on the person. Break_line: It's the same here. If you can become increasingly aware of your reactions, it creates a space in the mind and sometimes you don't need much time, a second or two. And then what's possible is a more adequate response. You see, response is different. Break_line: Okay, now let's put it all in real life. You and I are, again, we're talking to each other. Maybe it's in the context of a job and maybe there's a deadline and people are screaming and phones are going off. Okay. The way in which in daily life the mindfulness practice seems to happen, or it can happen with some help–you have to practice, otherwise you won't learn how to do it–is a bit like the tides going in and out. So let's say sometimes I'm predominantly with you. Let's say while you're talking, a little bit in touch with myself. Then maybe then for a split second I'm much more with myself. I'm still in touch with you. I haven't lost touch with you. But I'm predominantly a lot more inside. And then suddenly, and sometimes they feel rather balanced. It will vary from moment to moment. Break_line: If time is a factor and we have to act, then all we can do is the best we can. We can't insist that the world stop being the world so that we can go into full lotus and follow our breaths and 2 hours later say the right thing. But that's part of why we practice at home and on retreats is as we clear the mind out of a lot of the debris, the destructive content in the mind, as we begin to see what is destructive and what isn't, you actually become more compassionate to people, more patient, more tolerant. Even if you don't take it on as a special training, it starts to happen. And as the mind becomes more spacious and quiet and that just comes from practice. Break_line: Now, let's say you're the same boss. Let's say, and you're mean to me, let's say I never did a retreat at IMS, and you're mean to me, and I'm living in a tiny little space. I never meditated. When you hit me with your mean stuff, it goes boom and it's explosive, it's friction. But now you've meditated. I've done a nice nine day retreat, and the mind is a much bigger place and it's quieter. So now you again insult me and it hits it. But now it's not experienced as quite a devastating way because you are living in a bigger place. Break_line: The ancients used an image that might help you. If you have a glass of water and you put, let's say, a half a glass of salt in the water, you can't drink it. But if you have like a vat of water the size of this room and you put the salt in it, you won't even notice it. You can drink it. So as the mind becomes more spacious and calm, it's much more able to experience the stressors in the modern language, the assaults that come at us, and not necessarily being so overwhelmed by it, because there's a fulfillment that you're living in that's intrinsic. That's what the silence is. Does that make some sense? Okay. Yeah. That's the key one; if you can remember that, it will be very helpful. Please. End_time: 00:43:44