AOTA-231201 - Conductor, Carolyn Watson & author, Larry Evans

This week on Out of the Air, LaPorte County Symphony Orchestra Conductor Carolyn Watson returns to update us on her recent career moves and plans for the orchestra. Next we have well-known litigation attorney turned author Larry Evans sharing his novel Unauthorized Practices. Our spotlight is on Indiana Ballet Theatre's annual production of The Nutcracker, December 7th through the 10th at IU Northwest Main Stage with Gloria Tuey. Express yourself you are, and show the world your heart. Express yourself you are, and show the world your heart. You're in the know with Esther and Larry, out on the air today. They're in the know with Mary and Esther, out on the air our way. Express yourself you are, and show the world your heart. Express yourself you are, and show the world your heart. Welcome, you're listening to Art on the Air on Lakeshore Public Media, 89.1 FM, WVLP 103.1 FM, our weekly program covering the arts and arts events throughout Northwest Indiana and beyond. I'm Larry Breckner of New Perspectives Photography, right alongside here with Esther Golden of The Nest in Michigan City. Aloha everyone. We're your hosts for Art on the Air. Art on the Air is supported by an Indiana Arts Commission Arts Project Grant, South Shore Arts, and the National Endowment for the Arts. Art on the Air is heard every Sunday at 7 p.m. on Lakeshore Public Media, 89.1 FM, also streaming live at lakeshorepublicmedia.org, and is available on Lakeshore Public Media's website as a podcast. Also heard on Friday at 11 a.m. and Monday at 5 p.m. on WVLP 103.1 FM, streaming live at wvlp.org, and Tuesdays at 4 p.m. on WDSO 88.3 FM. Our spotlight interviews are also heard Wednesdays on Lakeshore Public Media. Information about Art on the Air is available at our website, breck.com slash aota. That includes a complete show archive, spotlight interviews, plus our show is available on multiple podcast platforms, including NPR One. Please like us on Facebook, Art on the Air, WVLP, for information about upcoming shows and interviews. We'd like to welcome back to Art on the Air Spotlight. She's been with us many times before, but coming back to tell us more about what's coming up for the Indiana Ballet Theater. They have an upcoming production of Nutcracker in December. Gloria Toohey, who's the founding member and I guess you might say artistic director of that, and also an update on the Classic Arts Center. Gloria, welcome back to Art on the Air Spotlight. Thank you. Hi, welcome. So tell us a little bit about Nutcracker and what's coming up with that, what dates and everything. Yes, yes, yes. Nutcracker. This is our, I think, 26th year for the Nutcracker, and it's at IUM, and it's December the 17th. Now, having done it for 26 years, and I think everyone's, how do you approach it to make it different, better? I mean, it's not just retrenching it. Obviously, the Nutcracker is the Nutcracker, but what's different maybe from year to year or over the years you've changed? Well, I happen to have a wonderful daughter, Amanda, who is fantastic at changing choreography. So she puts a new change on it every year. So that's what's different this year. We have about almost 100 in the cast, and that's different from year to year. So we change accordingly. What about costumes? Do they get updated, or...? They do, yes. Something I started in the very beginning, since we've been around for 44 years, I made all the costumes as well. But we have a great person now who's actually a dancer of ours, and now she's become the costume director. So Amber has now taken on updating the costumes or making new costumes. Yeah. Yeah, she's a lovely dancer as well. Yeah, she is. Yeah, we had her on the show early on, I believe, so... Is Amanda still doing Kaleidoscope? She is. She is. I remember we spoke to her a long time ago about Kaleidoscope. Right, right. She's having a hard time finding a location to see it at the moment. But she's looking for a place in the University of Oklahoma to go back there. In the other changes over the 24 years, the type of talent that you have brought on board has changed considerably. I remember some of the first ones you had at the Center for Visual and Performing Arts when I was there. So tell us a little bit about some of the changes that happened there. In the casting? No, well, the whole production. I mean, you are now bringing in dancers, not just your own local things, but you're bringing a lot of dancers. Right. Yeah, so tell us about the development of that. We have three male directors coming in to partner, and they'll be doing these. No King, and also they should perform Cavalier, and then we have two coming in from Chicago that will be also lead to Snowcracker itself, and also Maya, the uncle of Curran. So, yeah. And one of our male dancers that's coming in is actually the other dancer, and his sister now will be Sugar Plum, and Gabe Hartman will be Cavalier. So that's just the four of the shows. The other four shows, it's another guy. Also, you are still working on the Classical Arts Center. I know we were at your fundraiser thing not too long ago, but tell us about the development of that. I know you're still looking for matching grants and money, so how's that process going? Yeah. We're actually having quite a... It's been a turmoil between the productions, and the Star Plaza closing down, and then and so on and so forth. Then you've got 2020 after that, and then this, that, and the other. But we have managed to completely renovate the exterior of the building, and that was to the tune of a million dollars. So we managed to keep going, and now we're halfway to the goal of being able to get a construction done. So the goal is one million, and we're already halfway there. So we need some help from the community to get the other half, and then we get the funding, and we get it completed, and if everybody gets on board, we could be open towards the end of 2024. How do people come in to support that? I mean, obviously they go to your website, but what are ways that people can help you out getting through that goal? Well, they can name a window, a door, and you know, several ways they can do that. So if they can become a part of those things, they can do it as a group. You can have 10 people in a window, 10 names for $100 each. So it's all doable. It's not like we're asking for millions from everybody. It's just a few dollars here and there. But as a community, it would be nice to think the community could do this together, you know, not just one person. Though it would be great to have a really large donor come in and do that also. Oh, wouldn't it be? Yeah. So as we wrap up here, tell us again about when Nutcracker is running, how people can see it, where they can find you online, and everything like that. Okay. It's at IUN, December the 7th through the 10th. And you just go to www.ibtnw.org and go to Events for the tickets to Nutcracker. Excellent. You just go to the website, and you can see also all the movies about what the vision is for the building, and you can make a donation right there as well. That's great. That's great. Gloria Toohey, the Artistic Director and Founder of the Indiana Ballet Theater, Nutcracker, December 7th through the 10th. Thank you so much for coming on Art on the Air Spotlight. Thank you. Thank you, Gloria. Yes. Bye-bye. And a Spotlight Extra. The Memorial Opera House presents the stage adaptation of the Every Berlin Musical, White Christmas, opening November 30th, running through December 7th. Plus on December 17th, South Shore Orchestra's annual Holiday Pops concert. Art on the Air Spotlight and the complete one-hour program on Lakeshore Public Media is brought to you by McAuley Real Estate in Valparaiso, Olga Patrician, Senior Broker. And as a reminder, if you'd like to have your event on Art on the Air Spotlight or have a longer feature interview, email us at aotaatbrech.com. That's aotaatbrech, B-R-E-C-H, .com. This is Pledge Week for your public radio station, and Art on the Air encourages our loyal listeners to support this station by making a monthly sustaining pledge so we may continue to bring you this great program. Hi there. This is public radio theme composer B.J. Liederman, and you're listening to Art on the Air on Lakeshore Public Radio 89.1 FM and on WVLP 103.1 FM. We are pleased to welcome back Carolyn Watson to Art on the Air. Carolyn is a distinguished conductor and educator, currently the music director for the La Porte County Symphony Orchestra in Indiana and the director of orchestras at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign. She also has an ongoing association with Interlochen as conducting faculty. Her glowing music career has taken her all over the world, garnering numerous prestigious awards and has established her as a sought-after innovative music director and principal guest conductor. Aloha and welcome, Carolyn. Thank you for joining us. It's really good to see you. It's great to see you, too. So glad to have you back, and if our audience wanted to hear your previous interview, you were on Art on the Air for your first interview on May 7, 2021. As you were coming to La Porte, we wanted to introduce you to your new orchestra and people that were listening. So thank you so much for being here. Maybe briefly, so people will know maybe a quick version of your origin story before we really, what we brought you back to do is update everything that's happening in your life. So can you tell us how you got from where you were to where you are now in kind of a nutshell? Wow. Okay. I'll try to be as efficient as I can. So this is a bit of a special year in many ways in that it's my 10th anniversary here in the United States. I moved over from Australia in 2013, and I moved to the Midwest. I moved to Interlochen, where I took up the position of conductor and music director of the Interlochen Arts Academy Orchestra. And at that time, I wasn't sure whether I'd like America, how it would go, how long I'd stay. And you can kind of see how that's working out. Well, Interlochen's a great landing place. You're right. You know, it absolutely is. Although, I must say, I realized by about February why they interview everyone in June. That is true. Interlochen was pretty brutal, I've got to say. So yes, in those 10 years, I have been very fortunate to have a real array, a diversity of experiences, working with professional organizations, opera companies, ballet companies, orchestras through the United States, as well as in higher education. I'm currently in my third year as music director of the La Porte County Symphony. I'm not quite sure where the time went, but we had a fabulous year last year for the 50th anniversary season of the orchestra. And as you mentioned, I'm in my, well, I'm now at the University of Illinois, where I am director of orchestras, and I'm in my second year here. And also, I have, since we last chatted, I have been appointed principal guest conductor of the Kansas City Chamber Orchestra, which is my hometown. Wow. So tell us a little bit, when you go from orchestra to orchestra, I've always wondered this as a conductor, you have, of course, different personnel, different environments. You go from La Porte and do that, plus you're teaching orchestras. But how is that? How is that transition? Do you step in there? I mean, obviously, you somewhat rehearse without you, but tell us a little bit about that experience as a conductor. Yeah. I mean, I find it interesting. I find it energizing, because no two orchestras are the same. No two groups of people are the same. And, you know, you have to figure out very quickly what works, what doesn't work, how to adapt, what they are used to, what their expectations are. You know, so it's a little bit like, you know, maybe two dogs meeting for the first time. There's like a tentative wagging of the tail and some sniffing just to make sure that we're going to be friends and it's going to be okay. But there's a degree of, you know, caution or maybe self-protection there on both sides, I think. So as you go from orchestra to orchestra, though, and I'm assuming that, and every conductor that I've watched has their own unique style. So the dialogue that you have between the orchestra, are there standard gestures that get you through so that they understand, you know, like how do they understand your language? Because I'm sure every conductor is different, but the same as well. Yeah, you're absolutely right. I think maybe a good analogy would be, for example, we all speak English, but we speak different kinds of English. So there is a baseline of standard orchestral gestures that have evolved since the development of orchestral conducting in the 19th century. And they're fairly standardized around the world. There's a little variation, a few possibilities, but for the most part, people know what they mean. But you're right. We are individual people with individual personalities and a lot of conductors are very idiosyncratic and they have their own way of doing things. So if you can imagine, you know, English spoken by someone in Kenya sounds different than English spoken by somebody in South Africa, or opposed to Scotland, Australia, New Zealand, America. You know, even when we take America, it sounds different in New York than it sounds in Texas, for example. But for the most part, you know, with the exception of a couple of places in Wales, I think we understand each other. And that was part of your Doctor of Dissertation is about gesture as communication. I mean, you use that as kind of a basis study and so you can do that. I mean, I've seen people having played an instrument in band, actually. Some people, it's like, how the heck can you even follow that? You barely can see a downbeat. But yeah, you know, I guess you have to define a certain thing, like Esther was saying, a certain baseline of everything that's going to happen. Right. And I was thinking, you know, as much rehearsal as goes on between you and the orchestra, during performances, if there are stumbles, do you rehearse what the orchestra needs to do to come back to center? I mean, are there particular or, you know, do you rehearse that as well, I guess? Giving away all the trade secrets. Well, of course, you know, the performances I conduct, we never have any issues like that. Of course not. No, I mean, that's a very good point. And that's where being able to communicate very effectively with your body, with your gestures, is, of course, very important because you're absolutely right, Esther. It's not possible to stop and say, okay, this is what's happened. We need to go back and start at letter G, for example. You know, I think everybody recognizes facial expressions and, you know, a generally panicked look from the conductor typically gets attention or just, you know, our sort of standard nonverbal gestures like, you know, emphatically, you know, shaking at the head for yes, you know, to give encouragement or, you know, putting up the hand of love. And for the listeners, I mean, I've just put up my hand like in a stop sign, like as in please don't play now. Please don't even think about playing now. No, just put your instrument down. Not now, not yet, not ready. And there we go, you know. So trying to, you know, communicate with people that way, but, yeah, depending on the group that you're in. It's a beautiful language. It really is. It's a very beautiful language, and I'm captivated by it when I'm at a performance. You know, sometimes I can't, you know, I'm lost in the music, but it's watching the orchestra interact with the conductor. Since I was a little girl, I've always been fascinated by it. It's just so interesting. And I see you with a hand gesture like this, kind of. That's for the brass section, usually, because it's like, okay, guys, tone it down, everything. In fact, go in the next room and play. We'll be fine. Exactly, something along those lines. I know about conducting. One thing I saw is during when we had the Stars and Stripes Forever, when we had one of the mayors go up there and do that, and I was watching that and going, okay, you can tell he doesn't know anything about beating time. It was like up, down, up. I almost wanted to say, okay, no, no, and you've got to point to the flutes and the piccolos when they stand up. You know, it was like, anyway, it was kind of funny. He was a good example of how not to conduct. Well, what can I say? No comment. He's a great supporter. He's a great supporter. There's no doubt about it. He was just not a conductor, that's for sure. So you've come to La Porte, and what things have evolved there since you've been there? I mean, coming in, you've been there a couple of years. Have you established anything different, new? I mean, you've come to a good existing orchestra, but is there any goals that you have for it that are either in transition or met so far or going on? Yes, I think all of the above. You know, it's a longer-term project, and it takes a little while always when you are new in a position and new in an organization, you know, to figure out how things work, what's there, and then to think about what you might like to do differently, to change, to modify, you know, to improve. For example, one thing that has changed since I've come on board, there has been the addition of a February subscription concert. So when I was hired as music director, there were three subscription concerts, and there's now four, and so this is the second year that we'll be doing that February concert. Last year, we did a side-by-side with the La Porte High School band and orchestra, and this year, we're doing a side-by-side with local area music educators. So that, I feel, both of those projects are in and of themselves very, very exciting. I am myself a music educator, and I think it's a fantastic thing that we have in La Porte and surrounds, and to have the opportunity to share that with last year's students, and this year, you know, our professional adult colleagues that might play their instrument or might have studied earlier in their lives, but, you know, then life gets busy and takes over, but they've still got it in the cupboard and would just love to play with an orchestra. Well, we're offering them that opportunity, so that is in and of itself very, very exciting. Also, the last couple of summers I've been in town, we've done performances at Friendship Gardens, so that has been absolutely lovely, and also, we did a July 4 performance at Fox Park, so I think that's something that we are looking to hopefully continue. So that's great. We had a successful 50th anniversary season last year that saw some very, very exciting things, among them exceeding the stated fundraising goal of $1.5 million for the endowment campaign, and so that was just phenomenal, that level of community support for our orchestra, so listeners that are listening, audience members who come to our concerts, thank you from the bottom of my heart very much for your support. It's truly, truly valued. So have you, are you going on, have you, I know the contract I think was for three years with Laporte, are you, have you signed for the next bit of time yet? No, not yet? Oh, Laporte, get busy. We are chatting, let's put it that way. So when you take guest conducting, do you have time during that, and I'm sure it's different at each, in each place you are, but do you have time to really become part of the community when you're there, like go and, you know, go and really explore where you're visiting? Not in the same way that you do when you have an ongoing association like I do with Laporte, for example. I mean, guest conducting, it depends a little. Often those engagements, though, they are quite short, typically less than a week, so I might go somewhere, for example, on Thursday, rehearse Friday, and Saturday perform Saturday night or Sunday afternoon, so that's a, it's an intense kind of few days, and it doesn't always lend itself to, as you asked, you know, being part of the community. The exception to that, however, I guess is when you get re-invitations and, for example, you go back year after year and you get to know the people, the place of the organization, so that I have a number of places where I have that sort of affiliation, and that I very much enjoy. Well, I thought, you know, with how much you love traveling, you might pick places that you would get to then really explore. That was sort of my fantasy about some of the guest conducting. Well, speaking of guest conducting, when you have guest conductors come, let's say to Laporte, first of all, how do you select them, and is it sometimes difficult for you to also take the hands off the wheel a little bit, so, you know, okay, I'm the conductor, but, you know, how does that process work? It's like, okay, I'm going to let you do that. I mean, I know, like, at the holiday concert, you're letting Chuck, your associate conductor, do that, but tell me a little bit about that process. Well, full disclosure, I think most conductors will acknowledge that they are control freaks, so it is sometimes hard to take a step back, but I think, you know, for the good of any organization, it's great to have different perspectives, and, you know, for an orchestra, they get a lot of me, but it's fantastic when they have an opportunity to work with another conductor, and I think that about my school on football here at the University of Illinois, that it's fantastic for them that they have the chance to work with other professional colleagues, because I think everybody brings something different. Everybody is shaped by their own experiences, and that forms us into the unique musicians, conductors, human beings that we are, and we all have the potential to offer something different and equally relevant, but equally different, as well, to the groups that we work with. In terms of how we... It brings a musical flexibility. Yes, yes, I totally agree, and to answer your question, Larry, about how we, how that generally comes about, I mean, it's a fairly small world, an insular world, a musical world, so it's very, very often word of mouth, you know what I mean, and if you've got somebody that you know is a fantastic professional colleague that's going to be a great fit with your organization, then that's a very logical starting place. And you've broken into what has been for quite a few years mostly a male-dominated field. Was there any difficulty, you being a woman, getting into the conducting world with primarily a male-dominated field? I mean, it is still very much a male-dominated field. In fact, over 90% of conductors are male, and I think music directors, it's closer to 95%. So, yes, you're absolutely right, it is. In terms of challenges, I think it is a very challenging field regardless of gender, and as for the challenges that I've had, I don't, I mean, I've certainly had challenges as a young conductor, but I think any conductor has those. As to whether I've had any additional ones as a woman, I guess I can think of some experiences that, you know, stand out, but I'd rather not dwell on those. I think it's a challenging profession for anybody to navigate, and I feel very fortunate to have had the opportunities that I've had, and I just try to make the most of them. Very good. Well, the other thing I want to know, too, is when you're going to, when you're teaching and you're looking at, do you spot people that might be potential conductors, and what's that process to go from being, you know, because everyone comes to it as a musician of some sort, but that making that transition, not actually playing the instrument, but making the orchestra your instrument is a whole different process. You're right, it is. I guess it's a little bit different in terms of my role as a teacher. I mean, I do, yes, I do work with young conductors. However, the young conductors that I work with, they've already passed that stage, you know, the one that you asked about. They have for themselves already decided that they want to pursue a graduate degree in orchestral conducting, therefore they apply for either a master's or a doctoral degree here. But you do mention a very interesting point about, you know, orchestral musicians and perhaps people that have the talent but might not have considered orchestral conducting, and I know that there are a number of programs like that that are working at targeting young women and girls, in fact, to try to encourage them from a high school level to consider conducting. So, Carolyn, do you yourself, do you compose music? I do not. And so, you know, I read that you love to travel. So is there, is it like hiking, biking? Is it sightseeing? Is it, and where, you know, where is your next place that you're going to explore? Yeah, it's a very long list that I've got. I mean, I had a fantastic summer and I did check off one of my bucket list destinations, which was East Africa. So I was there for four weeks in Kenya, Uganda. We did a day trip to Rwanda and Tanzania. So that was very, very special. As for next destinations, I mean, I do want to go to Patagonia. I do love the outdoors and hiking. I do want to go to Antarctica. I do want to go to Alaska. There's a lot of America that I've not seen. The National Park, for example. I've kind of grown up as a musician in Europe and lived there and spent quite a lot of time. I always loved visiting and going back. And, of course, my homeland of Australia. But there is a lot of America that's definitely waiting for me to go see it. That's beautiful. Yes, it is. In our last few moments here, we want to talk about, you've talked about your travels, but is there, what's your next orchestral goal? I mean, we don't want to see you move on from La Porte County Symphony, but is there an orchestra that you would like to be conducting sometime? You know, Cleveland Orchestra, Chicago? Yeah, that's an interesting question. I guess I've never thought of it that way. I don't think I have goals with respect to which orchestras I'd like to conduct. Certainly there's some repertoire, though, that I feel like I'd like to program and I'd like to conduct, like a bucket list of pieces that I definitely want to do before I retire or quit, whichever comes first, you know, or decide to go travel full-time. I think that last one's probably the most likely, to be honest. Well, and then also the genres that you do, like, obviously, you know, orchestral-type things, but also, like, doing opera or ballet. And tell your conducting approach how they differ for those types of different genres. Well, they're very different kinds of animals, as it were. For opera and ballet, the number of rehearsals and the production season tends to be significantly longer, so you get more of an opportunity to develop a rapport with the singers. In opera, the dancers, in ballet, and, you know, for an opera production, typically you're looking at rehearsal schedules of two, three, four, five weeks, depending, whereas for a symphonic engagement, it'll be more, like, in the days, as we were discussing earlier. So it's very, yeah, it's a very different kind of role. You have to work very differently. And how so? Yeah, it's a much more collaborative process, I think. When you have that time to get to know people, it's much more of a to-and-fro or back-and-forth, certainly with singers, whereas when you've got a very short amount of time to put a concert together, you've got a very short amount of time to put a concert together, you know? So this might not be, not knowing what's going to happen with the LaPorte County Symphony Orchestra, so when you are at a, you know, a more long-term sort of gig, do you, how long do you book out? I mean, like, do you do the three years' worth of a season? Before that, or ahead of that, do you mean? Yeah, how far, because I looked at your schedule, and, you know, you're booked to probably May, as far as, you know, with different concerts, and so I was wondering, when you're doing your own personal schedule, like for the LaPorte County Symphony Orchestra, how far out do you have to book everything? Yeah, I mean, usually this season, and I'm going to say COVID has definitely changed things. Things tended to be planned a little further in advance, but things have definitely shifted with professional organizations after COVID. You know, I'm now getting inquiries for next season and seeing what that looks like. I expect there'll be more of those, though, in the spring than in the fall. And with respect to programming, that's, yeah, I also try to program sort of 6 to 12 months in advance as well. Oh, yeah, because I thought you probably inherited quite a bit when you came on. Thank you for answering that. What was your primary instrument? I can't remember. It was violin. Violin. And it seems like most conductors come from violins. Very few percussionists seem to want to get up there. But anyway, we want to wrap up here in a minute here. We want to tell about any upcoming things you have coming up for yourself, how people can find you online and everything like that. Yeah, thank you. I'm very easy to find online. You can just, I guess, Google me, Carolyn Watson Conductor, and find my website there, www.carolyn-watson.com. Yeah, you can find me at the University of Illinois. You can find me on Facebook. You can find me on Instagram as Carolyn Conducts. And you can find me on LinkedIn. I'm to be found everywhere. Well, we appreciate you coming back on Art in the Air. That's Carolyn Watson, Conductor of the LaPorte County Symphony, Guest Conductor for Kansas City Chamber Orchestra, and also Director of Orchestras at University of Illinois. And you can hear her previous interview, where you might find some more details about her past, on our website and Lakeshore site at Art on the Air Interview. It's May 7th. Carolyn, thank you so much for coming back on Art on the Air and sharing your journey. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for having me. Yeah. Art on the Air listeners, do you have a suggestion for a possible guest on our show, whether it's an artist, musician, author, gallery, theater, concert, or some other artistic endeavor that you are aware of, or a topic of interest to our listeners? Email us at aota.brech.com. That's aota.brech.com. Hi, this is singer-songwriter Kenny White, and you're listening to Art on the Air on Lakeshore Public Radio 89.1 FM and on WVLP 103.1 FM. We would like to welcome Larry Evans to Art on the Air. Larry is a well-known litigation attorney in Northwest Indiana, and has practiced law for over 40 years. He is partnered with Heppner, Wagner, and Evans in Valparaiso, Indiana. Larry is visiting with us to discuss his first novel, a legal drama titled Unauthorized Practices. Thank you for joining us on Art on the Air. Aloha and welcome, Larry. Hi. Thank you for having me. I have to say, Larry and I go kind of way back, I guess. I've been involved with something we both had a mutual love for, as well then the WYIN and Lakeshore Public Media now, and a longtime board member, now he's an emeritus board member. And all the way back then, one of the things I'll let you talk about somewhere along the way is that you had the Larry Evans Show early in the broadcast history there. But what we want to kick off first, Larry, is let people in our audience know your personal journey in history. I would like to say how you got from where you were to where you are now. So tell us all about Larry Evans. Well, I went to – I grew up in Gary. I went to Lou Wallace High School. And from a very young age, I think 14 or 15, I wanted to become an attorney. And the only law school around here that was close was Valparaiso. So I wound up going to Valparaiso University for undergraduate work and then for law school. And I've never left. I'm still in Valparaiso after all these years. But it's just always been something I love to do. I love – it's interesting, when I was trying to make my decision when I was growing up, my mother was saying, well, if you're unsure, because I was thinking maybe I'll become a preacher instead of a lawyer. And so she said, well, go talk to the preacher and see what he thinks. So I did. And the preacher said, you'll help more people being a lawyer than you will being a preacher. And so I took that advice, came here to undergraduate and to law school, and I've been in practice ever since. Tell us a little bit earlier, when you first started off doing – tell us a little bit about your legal history. You started working – and how that developed to Hoopner, Wagner, and Evans. I mean, there's a journey there. Yeah. Well, I started out – I was a deputy prosecutor for Porter County. And that meant I got a lot of experience going to small claims court cases. In those days, we had justice of the peace courts, which we don't have anymore. They were declared unconstitutional. I would handle, you know, the small drunken driving cases, overweight violations by trucks, that kind of thing. And then after about six months, I was invited to join the firm, which was then known as Chester Clifford, Heppner, and Ran. And then within a few years, I became a partner in that firm. And then over the years, the firm name changed. Until 1976, it became Heppner, Wagner, and Evans, which it is still today. I would like to go back into, like, schooling, childhood schooling. So were you – are you – is your family – does your family have other lawyers? And were you in school part of the debate team? Or, you know, did you have any early leanings? Well, I liked watching Perry Mason on television, for sure. And I always thought, boy, that would be great to be able to do that. No other attorneys in the family. My parents didn't go to college. I was the first one in the family to go to college. But my mother was my best supporter and always with me all the way through the journey. In our school, we took aptitude tests. And every time there was an aptitude test, law was one that came up that something I would be good at. I wasn't really active in, like, the debate teams or any of that in high school. That was more when I got to college and law school. But it's just an interest that I had, and it seemed to fit me. I always think it's like when you wear a suit that just fits you, right, it feels good. So being a lawyer has fit me with my skills. Now, I couldn't have been anything else, I don't think, and make a living at it. You probably can, but, I mean, you just probably haven't explored that possibility. Before we get on to the book, and one of the things, because I'm going to bring this up because it's in the book, is tell us a little bit about the different types of lawyers, especially on the third and fourth floor in your book about the different things and the fictional Smith and Jones. The third floor were the litigators, and the fourth floor were the trust and estate lawyers. But tell us about some of the different law that's practiced because it's no longer like one-stop shopping with lawyers anymore. No, I don't think so. Well, there used to be, like, we used to say office lawyers and then trial lawyers, just those two categories. But now it's all changed. So within our firm, we have people that do estate planning, they write wills, they probate estates, things like that. We have other people that do more legal writing. People do employment law. We don't do any criminal defense work. We don't do any copyright trademark work, but anything else along the lines of civil litigation. If we get cases that aren't within our area of expertise, we'll refer them out to other attorneys. But on the trust side, if people write wills, they form trusts, they probate estates. And a lot of times, believe it or not, those kind of situations can create conflicts within families. Sometimes families get along great until there's a death and then there's a fight. So a lot of times there's litigation resulting from the trust and estate work. So it all kind of blends in together at that point. In the book, I was trying to make the point that if you do trust and estates or estate planning, it's more of a regular schedule. You can set your dates. You can decide when you're going to do things, when you're going to be gone. In litigation, you're really subject to the courts. If you have an order that says you've got to appear in court, you've got to appear in court. You can't decide, I don't want to appear in court. Or I'll come at 1030 instead of 10. Yeah, you just can't do that. So you're really subject to the courts and to scheduling. Depositions and all that are scheduled by people. And your schedule is more unpredictable. It's not a nine-to-five life. And I work in the evenings a lot. I work on weekends, depending on what's coming up. So it's a different personality, I think. I think litigators, I think, enjoy the combat. They enjoy the fight. Estate planners, I'm not saying they don't enjoy the fight, but it's more of a steady thing. You write the will. The family comes in to sign the will. You handle the estate. It's more predictable. And I don't like that. I never like that kind of work. I like the action of litigation. That's what I like. And here I know mild-mannered Larry Evans, who always laughed at my little jokes across the board table. Because I have good taste. When writing the novel, and there's a multitude of names, like in all novels, have any friends worked their way into this novel, name-wise? Yes. Oh, that's good. Yeah. A lot of them are based on people I've seen and known over the years, for sure. Yep. I don't know if you had a chance to read the postscript or not, but the postscript was based on a lawyer I knew very well who passed away. Sidney Powell is in the postscript. An interesting name now. Another Sidney Powell is in there. Yeah, I'm going to change that. I'm going to change that. Yeah, I know. One thing I did, and our audience won't see this, but I'll show it to you. I actually made a diagram of all the characters so I could keep track of them, because it's such an involved thing. Well, why don't we move on to the novel right now? Well, first of all, the motivation to write a novel. Reading the novel, it's like, wow, this is a different Larry Evans than I know. Some of the things about the involvement and the intrigue and everything. So what brought about the motivation to actually put this down and create it? Well, it was based on an actual case of an accident on Highway 2 that I was involved in, where what happened was the accident scene wound up in one lane, but the driver at fault was from the other lane. So it was a really interesting case, and it's the same curve that I talked about in the novel. Now, I've done a lot of other writing, but writing a novel is probably the hardest thing to do, for me at least. It's like you say, Larry, you have to keep track of your characters. You have to be sure. The hardest thing is getting it finished. I have a lot of unfinished novels at home. I've done a lot of legal writing, but when I was in college, if you don't mind my digressing. Oh, by all means. I had a history class, and the professor taught the history of the French Revolution. And after the class was over, and I was 19 or 20, she said to me, you know, you're really a good writer, so I want to encourage you to always remember to write. I was a professor who told me that, and I've always written ever since then, whether it's legal writing or just bar journal entries, or if you came to my house, you'd find so many uncompleted manuscripts. This one I got done and got published, so that's great. So what schedule did you keep to do that? Did you have a clear beginning, middle, and end when you started, or how did it develop? In a way, it kind of wrote itself. It's interesting because you start to write, and you say, what's going to happen next? And all of a sudden, it kind of comes. Oh, this is next. This is the next logical thing. Of course, I've been in so many trials over the years, and I know how trials operate. I know what judges are. I know the pressures of being in a trial. I know all of that. So that really helped a lot, too. It was just a lot of fun to do. Speaking of judges for a minute, I'm surprised you never went for a judgeship. It's funny you mention that because I was given the chance once, and I said, no, I just don't think I could sentence people to prison. I don't think I could do that, which you have to do if you're going to be a judge. I don't think I would have liked it. My mother would have been proud. You're listening to Art on the Air on Lakeshore Public Media 89.1 FM on WVLP 103.1 FM. Well, before we get into a reading of the book, I have sort of a frivolous question to ask. What painting hangs in Hefner, Wagner, and Evans? It's not the one that's in the book. I didn't think it was. I was just curious. Are there portraits or landscapes? We have a lot of beautiful paintings. I have one in my office, which is Harriet Rex Smith, that Larry probably remembers her. And we have a lot of new paintings we've just put in the lobby. But that's totally made up. The Lake Champlain, the Lake Michigan. Well, and one thing we all miss in northwest Indiana, the Twin Towers, where your name was prominent on the one tower there. That was gone. And you still have offices at the, well, I think they call it the One Broadway with the old Chase building, correct? Yeah, right, right, right. I think it's 91, whatever it is, yeah. We have an office there on the seventh floor. And you're mostly now in Valparaiso office, I think, right? Yeah, right, right, right. Well, in authorized practice, we've got a little bit of background. But maybe take a section and read it for us. And maybe we'll do a second one later. But that will give us kind of tee up a little bit about what's it about, even though you've told us a little bit. So here it is, Unauthorized Practices, Larry Evans. Okay. Silence. The natural silence of a country summer night. The sounds of the crickets grew bolder as the night wore on. The sky was clear and bright. Though the moon was hidden, the stars were vivid. Standing at the middle of the wide, long curve in the road, one could see the lights of three harm houses, two on the east and one closer on the west. They were separated by hundreds of acres of farmland choking with sweet corn and soybeans. The rain earlier in the evening left a summer freshness in the air. On Friday, June 1st at 9.30 p.m., as he had for one week out of each month for the past 17 years, John Graves kissed Ella, his wife, left their home in Hebron, and drove his navy blue Ford pickup north on State Road 2 toward the curve. He was scheduled to work the 11-7 shift at National Steel 40 miles north. He allowed just over an hour to drive to work, change clothes, and walk to his welding station. The curve had been designed by the Indiana Department of Highways as a result of a political compromise. To avoid condemnation proceedings against Vern Nelson, a Republican county commissioner, the road had been designed not to curve widely and gently toward Hebron, but rather to jerk sharply from due south to southeast, avoiding Nelson's land but creating a driver's nightmare. John knew the infamous curve like he knew his name. Though he had driven it thousands of times without incident, he was no less cautious. He had known many of the people whose lives had been taken by this deadly stretch of road. A lunch which Ella had packed for him to eat at 3 o'clock a.m. sat in his black lunch pail on the front seat. The shiny blue paint on the hood of the truck shone the light as he hummed along with Willie Nelson. The curve was less than 10 minutes from his home. These last few minutes of his life were mellow. He had done well, his three children were healthy, he loved his wife, and the mortgage on his home would be fully paid in three years. The silence was interrupted first by the terrible sound of squealing brakes, then the sharp crack as two chrome bunkers met, then the compression of metal and finally the burning smell of rubber on the road. In five seconds it was over and the silence returned. Archie Vision ran to his house on the west side of the road to call the police and their sirens were heard within minutes. The crumpled pickup came to rest in a shallow ditch on the west side of State Road 2. John Graves leaned lifelessly out of the driver's side door, only his seatbelt holding to the truck. The car came to rest on the east side of the road. A woman walked from the car. She was not injured, the lack of a seatbelt permitting her to be thrown free of the crash in a soft, grassy landing to the bottom of a small viaduct, which was overgrown with long summer weeds. She walked slowly to the road. The state and county police, the ambulance, and the neighbors took over the curve for almost two hours, speculating as to what had caused the wreck. Sheriff Lester Truitt was not certain what had happened. One death and one miraculous escape were the leading stories of the crash. When the highway had been cleared and the last piece of glass had been swept away, the silence was restored. The curve returned to the silence, and the accident of five seconds was given into the eager hands of the American legal and insurance professions, where it would remain for years, changing lives, fortunes, and loves. Wow. That's from Unauthorized Practices, Larry Evans, and that's just the opening tee up to the whole book and how it evolves as the characters, and it's very intricate how the characters are. I hate to give away too much in it because they're so interestingly crafted and kind of the different things between the third and fourth floor, and like I said, I made a character diagram when I was reading it, so I kept track. Well, you know, with that intro, I didn't get the sense that the case was for years. It seemed to be quite expedient, almost, for cases. That's a good observation. Right. I think what I was referring to was from the time that Chuck's life fell apart until he was going through the disciplinary commission hearings, and then finally rebuilding his life was what I was getting at. But you're right, the actual trial process was pretty fast. Yeah, that's a good observation. Yeah. The book made me very sad in a way, some of the behind-the-scenes stuff within the court. You know, it's kind of like this reveal almost as if, you know, when you read about, I don't know, different industries and that behind-the-scenes thing. So I have to say the novel made me just, you know, a little sad. Just kind of, you know, we all know the pairing that goes on between attorneys and judges and all the backs and forths and things that are given up and things that are given. It was just, you know, to see it so boldly in print was just slightly unnerving, I guess. Which I guess from a lawyer's point of view is what you kind of would get is give a sense of that helplessness, like the early one when showing up late to the court that first time. And it's like you really can't do anything when the judge decides to do something to you and everything. I've never had it done to me, but I've seen judges do that. They'll fine a lawyer if he's late, even for a few minutes. Wow, that's something. Well, the book pretty well concluded and wrapped up. There probably would not be a follow-up or a version two because most of the loose ends are tied up. It could happen, though. So do you have any development to take Chuck on to something else? Yes, I do. Charles, by the end of the book. I'm in another book. It's called The Case of Divorce, in which Charles Chuck, in his own practice, is now going to represent a woman who has allegedly killed her husband. Stay tuned. That's not done yet. Well, that's great. So, well, any other projects outside of this one? Are you going to concentrate on book two and then work on something else that you have the several manuscripts started? Well, I have one that I really like that I think could work. It's called Ten Adventures of a Small-Town Lawyer. Oh, I like that. Yeah. Because I've had cases literally all over the world. I've been in Australia. I've been in Greece. I've been on different cases, even though I'm practicing in a small town. So that's my next real important project. Not important. The one I really want to get done is Ten Guidelines of a Small-Town Lawyer. Oh, I really like that. Ten adventures, I mean. Yeah. Yeah. I know. When I hear that people have, like, all these manuscripts sort of under their bed, I often wonder if they, you know, can be anthologies of short stories almost. But I like that. I like that. Yeah, I think that's going to be – I think you're going to like that. Well, we only have a couple minutes left, but I was going to go back to some lawyering advice that you could give to maybe someone interested in getting into the legal profession. What is your – and of course, you're probably a little bit of disappointment about the Valpo University Law School. Yeah, that was really too bad. Well, I mean, I always like to tell people, if you like ambiguity, the law is for you. If you like things clear and certain, black and white, it may not be for you because so much of law is uncertain. Statutes can be confusing. And if you're a person that likes certainty, you might want to consider a different profession than law. And yet the perception is that there's a lot of certainty because law is this, but I understand what you're saying. So, well, we only have about a minute left here. I'm going to give you a chance to tell our audience where they can find your book and where it's available. I figure you could pick it up at the office at Hoopner, Wagner & Evans, if nothing else. Oh, yeah, you can get it here. Well, it's on Amazon. Okay. Both Amazon and Amazon Kindle, I believe. There's a new bookstore in Valparaiso called The Press. It's a coffee shop bookstore, and they have it there in the local author section. And I think that's it, Amazon or the local author section at The Press. Doing any book signings anywhere? Actually, I have, but mainly for, you know, friends. And my wife is in a book club, so they all get together. They had to all buy my book, and I got to sign all of it for them. So I've had a few, yeah. That might be interesting in the wife's book club is to say, well, who's this person and who's that person, and try to figure it out because it is a Valparaiso-based book. I know, that's right. Well, one of my friends is the one who said, well, whatever happened to Vern Nelson, whose name starts the book? Right. And I said, well, that's a good point. So I wrote the postscript to cover what became of him. It's really fun. Excellent. Well, Larry, I appreciate you coming on Art of the Air, sharing about your book and also your arts journey. That's Larry Evans. The book is Unauthorized Practices. You can find it at the places that he described. And if you need an attorney, you know, you might get in touch with them. Hooker, Wagger, and Evans in Valpo or Merrillville, and you can get some legal advice here. Larry, thank you so much, and it's so great to have you on the show. You know, we've known each other for quite some time now, and I appreciate you coming on our little show here. Thank you, Larry, and thank you, Esther. Yeah, thank you. Congratulations on this first book. Thank you. We'd like to thank our guests this week on Art of the Air, our weekly program covering the arts and arts events throughout Northwest Indiana and beyond. Art of the Air is heard Sunday at 7 p.m. on Lakeshore Public Media, 89.1 FM, also streaming live at lakeshorepublicmedia.org, and is available on Lakeshore Public Media's website as a podcast. Art of the Air is also heard Friday at 11 a.m. and Monday at 5 p.m. on WVLP, 103.1 FM, streaming live at wvlp.org. Our spotlight interviews are heard every Wednesday on Lakeshore Public Media. Thanks to Tom Maloney, vice president of radio operation for Lakeshore Public Media, and Greg Kovach, WVLP's station manager. Our theme music is by Billy Foster with a vocal by Renee Foster. Art on the Air is supported by the Indiana Arts Commission Arts Project Grant, South Shore Arts, and the National Endowment for the Arts. We'd like to thank our current underwriters for Lakeshore Public Media, Macaulay Real Estate and Valparaiso, Olga Patrician, senior broker, and for WVLP, Walt Redinger of Paragon Investments. So we may continue to bring you Art on the Air. We rely on you, our listeners and underwriters, for ongoing financial support. If you're looking to support Art on the Air, we have information on our website at BRAC.com slash AOTA, where you can find out how to become a supporter or underwriter of our program in whatever amount you are able. And like I say every week, don't give till it hurts. Don't give till it feels good. You'll feel so good about supporting Art on the Air. If you're interested in being a guest or send us information about your arts, arts-related event or exhibit, please email us at AOTA at BRAC.com. That's AOTA at BRAC, B-R-A-C-H dot com, or contact us through our Facebook page. Your hosts were Larry Breckner and Esther Golden, and we invite you back next week for another episode of Art on the Air. Aloha, everyone. Have a splendid week. Thank you. Express yourself you art, and show the world your heart. Express yourself you art, and show the world your heart. You're in the know with Esther and Larry, Art on the Air today. Stay in the know with Larry and Esther, Art on the Air our way. Express yourself you art, and show the world your heart. Express yourself you art, and show the world your heart. Express yourself you art, and show the world your heart.