Caste Podcast

The conversation between Ana and Amelia focuses on the caste system in India and the role of women within it. They discuss how the caste system is oppressive, particularly for the untouchables, who are at the bottom of the hierarchy. They also talk about the historical mistreatment of women worldwide and assume it is the same in India. They highlight how women are essential for the continuation of the caste system through endogamy and reproduction. However, despite their importance, women are not given the same rights and opportunities as men. They also mention the challenges women face in arranged marriages, where they are judged based on various traits and expectations. Overall, women in the caste system are rendered powerless despite their significance. Hi, I'm Ana Von Remoore, and I'm here with my good friend and teammate, Amelia Hanscom. Hi! So, today we're going to be talking about, overall, kind of like the caste system and a woman's role in the caste system, kind of focusing a bit on how marriage kind of confines like a woman, and also how like her caste is also very confining. So, the first thing I just want to ask Amelia is, kind of, what is your familiarity like with caste and the caste system in general? The last time I talked about the caste system, we spent a whole unit on it when I was in seventh grade in history, and I remember it because I just remember thinking just how crazy it was that that's how things were set up and organized in India, and I remember one thing that stood out to me was talking about like the lowest, like, I guess class of the caste that weren't even like considered to be worthy enough to be like a part of it were like the untouchables, I think they were called, and my teacher just emphasized how poorly they were treated and all these like really gross sanitary things that they had to do and participate in, and I just remember thinking how horrible it was, so I guess it stuck with me. Yeah, I mean, honestly, that sticks with me a lot, too, so we actually learned that that is called, they're called like dullips, which is, they're a very, very obviously oppressed group of people, and yeah, honestly, I feel like it's just the treat, their treatment is so poor and so awful, and it's kind of interesting, something that like we've been learning about a lot in class is that, one, like the dullip treatment is like terrible, but also being like a dullip woman is even more difficult because you're at the bottom of the caste hierarchy, but also the bottom of the hierarchy in terms of gender, so I feel like that is something that in itself is just a major, major struggle, and so also just, I wanted to ask, what do you know, do you have like any background of just kind of like anything about like women in general, kind of, I mean, obviously, you're a woman yourself, so you've been through some of the struggles that women have been through, but just do you have any background there? Well, I just know that historically, and it's not just the United States and cultures all over the world, that women have just historically been at the bottom of the ladder and mistreated in so many ways, treated as less, taken advantage of, used by men, and then not seen as equal for so long in so many senses, so I just feel like historically all over the world, treatment of women has just been very poor, and I assume it's the same in India as well. Yeah, so I think that you mentioned that like kind of women are almost used, I feel like, so endogamy is basically like marrying within a caste, which allows for like the caste system to continue to be like reproduced year, like for decades and forever, and that obviously means that women are very essential for that, and they're honestly sometimes like used as like a means of reproduction, because that means that, okay, you have to be like this specific caste, like a woman has to be this specific caste, and then a man has to be this specific caste, and that will allow the caste system to just continue and like for, I don't know, for forever, and it just, even like in this article that we read during class, it says that women were, like upper class women were regarded as like gateways into the upper caste, because, and a gateway that they wanted to like kind of keep away from like lower caste men, just because they're just, I don't know, the upper caste is seen as just so much better and higher regarded than any of the lower castes, so it just shows how women are so vital in this thing, but something that has like stuck out to me throughout like this course is that they're seen as so vital, but they are not really given as many like rights and opportunities as men, which I thought to be very interesting, because they're seen as so important, yet at the same time, treated as like kind of unimportant things. Yeah, I completely agree, and I feel like it's like they're only vital when they're needed and what they are needed for, so like you said, like reproduction, like yes, that's vital, but it's like that's going to be the main focus, so it's like any other aspect that doesn't surround that, or doesn't surround any kind of importance directly to men or society will be disregarded, so I feel like that definitely makes sense. It's, yeah, it's like, and I feel like you also mentioned that like, you mentioned like youth, and that's what I started talking about at first, but I just kind of, it shows that like they're used really to reproduce, and then they're also used and seen as like almost a sense of like property, and how it's like a man, like when he's born, he's in a specific cast, he knows that he's always going to be in that cast, but a woman will have to like leave, though she may stay in the same cast, she's going to have to leave her family behind to completely join the family of her husband, which just, and she's going to have to completely adjust to that, and that is, and because she is a woman, that is like what she has to do, and that is like what's socially acceptable, which I think is very difficult, because I would never want to leave my family behind, just like, oh, I'm marrying this person, oh, I have to like completely devote myself to not only like an individual, but also like their family, and something that is kind of, have you heard of like arranged marriages before? Yes. So we kind of have discussed that in class as well, and it's like a very like judgmental process, as in the woman is, well, first she has to be like a specific cast, but also there's all these other traits that kind of align with being like seen as like a good woman that is like wanted for marriage, and like, because like being a virgin is obviously something that's wanted, and then that it's like they want her to sometimes even have a brother, and they want her to be from a good family, and there's all these small things that like a woman needs to do just to be kind of accepted into like the family of a man, and I just think it's very interesting how it's like we say all these things, but at the end of the day, it's like the woman who should have the power, but at the same time, she's rendered so powerless. Right, yeah, I think it's a great point, and it's like talking about everything a woman should have when it's like none of it is talking about like what the man should have, it's like we hold them to these expectations that are just like kind of outrageous, and then judge them for it if it doesn't fit into the kind of category, so yeah. Well, thank you so much for having this conversation with me. I hope that I was able to kind of, I guess, teach you a little bit about what it is like what's required of a woman in the caste system in India. Yeah, definitely. Thank you so much.