Orgin Story

The Scolzi Brothers Podcast discusses the story of how their parents met in a mental hospital and fell in love. They have different perspectives on their upbringing in the care system, with one brother seeing it as normal and the other recognizing the negative effects of being trapped in a system. They discuss the importance of structure and how it has shaped their lives. They also mention how living in children's homes taught them responsibility and household skills. Hello and welcome to the Scolzi Brothers Podcast, Life and Lube. We are both referred to as Scolzi in the real world, so we are going to go by our Christian names which fucking cringes me to shit, just to let you know. My name is Adam and your name is Aaron and this podcast is basically going to be us being real, us being honest, but today we are going to get into the nitty fucking gritty of who we are and the best place to start is how our parents met and I will leave that story to Aaron. So, the side of the story I know is, I understand they met, from what I understand they met in like a hospital, mental hospital. Mad people. Yeah, so I imagine dad had like PTSD from like being in the fucking war or something. Sick World War soldier just lay out that was. Mum was obviously in there with her anorexia and stuff like this and yeah so they met in hospital, so crazies met in hospital and then they obviously fell for each other didn't they. So I mean, there's stories where mum's like, oh dad saved my life, like stuff like this, but none of us were there, so I mean that's from what I understand. Well I was there, I was in their fucking balls mate, I was in their fucking balls. It's quite interesting what you're saying about not being there actually, it's like going off the tangent a little bit, this week I've been just thinking about perspective, so how you see something and how I see something, but not like us. And I've been like using this in my work, in my life, I'll be like, yeah but my perspective is that and your perspective is this, it doesn't make either of them wrong, and that's the same thing with like, I just was like, I'm not there, you were like in their balls, it's like how people see things like completely different ways. I always have this thing don't I, of abstract, everything is fucking abstract, because a lot of people want black and white, but that's not the actual case, it's abstract, where sort of like my mum and dad, they met in a loony fucking bin in a mental hospital, my dad had PTSD, my mum was abused as a fucking child, and two people that were mentally ill met together and there was a concept of beauty and romance to it. Where, on the other hand, my uncle Vivian thought it was a big secret, and recently, and one of our cousins recently said to my sister that, look, I don't know if you know this, there's a secret in the family that they met in a fucking loony bin, and to his generation that was a bad thing, to me, I'm thinking fucking sound, I'm thinking sound, you've met somewhere a bit different. Silver linings. Just because, like, we saw it as like crazies met, and Vivian saw it as two fucking secret missing people, like, our parents obviously saw it as a love story. Three different perspectives, same fucking story, and that's what tends to happen, alright, and this is really, really interesting because it's like, myself and my brother were both brought up in care, and we fundamentally were, I mean, we were both brought up in care, my dad died when we were seven years old, my mum couldn't cope with us, she had a mental fucking breakdown, because of that concept of, they relied on each other in that sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so she believes she obviously lost the love of her life, and the only way she could see dealing with that was us going with dad to, in heaven. She tried to kill us. Yeah, yeah, and herself. She tried to kill my sister, fuck you Emma, fuck you, mum loved us more. So the funny thing is, like, if you have a mum's perspective on why Emma had a perspective on that, but mum's perspective was Emma's old enough to look after herself, stuff like this, and yeah, so she obviously... And we're young enough to die. Yeah. Our lives aren't worth it. Again, different perspectives on it, so like... But the perspective is though, the other perspective on that, we'll push away from the perspective element in a minute, but the other perspective on that though is, is that there's some people would have took that into a serious victim mentality concept of, oh, this person tried to kill me, which we've always had the viewpoint of, fuck me, this woman loved us so much, she wanted to kill us. So for us, for us, it's always been that concept of, our mum loved us that much, she wanted to have her family in heaven or Jupiter or wherever she fucking fundamentally believed. Mars, yeah, yeah. Mars, she must have thought she was some fucking kind of Mormon or something, but... Yeah, yeah, she must have thought she was part of Star Trek. Star Trek, fucking mate, Star Trek, Vulcan, I'm a Vulcan mate. Yeah, so this is obviously the way she went down and we went and spent some time, a little bit of time with our auntie. Me, I was around six months and then, yeah, in 96 I moved on to a... 97 I moved. Yeah, so 96 I went on to a foster family and then children's homes went up. My sister for a little bit, for about a year, and then on to, yeah, kids homes. But I mean, the funny thing is, people, so I, a little bit about myself a little bit more is, I work now actually in the, I work in children's homes, I'm a team leader in one home. And the interesting thing is, people when they hear, oh you lived in care, it must have been hard. I also point out to people, I did never see it as hard, because I don't know any different. So for me it's like, I was a five year old, yeah, I don't know any different from this. So for me, my life is normal, yeah, that's my normality. And I always think that when people are like, ah, and I say, things hit your head, but not, not to do with me being in the system or anything like that. And I always think that's quite interesting when people say, like, say to me, oh it must have been hard, like, and I was like, yeah but, that's all I know. So when there's children who come in, who come into the care system at 12, I always say, you can't compare us, because they know home life, I don't know home life. But I think that's interesting, because what I target very much about what you're saying there is system. And now, I mean, I might have been slightly later, but I wasn't that much later in life in the three years. So the thing about it is, you're stuck in a system, and that actually puts the concept of why so many kids in care do go back into systems such as prison, or such as whatever they do in life, because you are trapped in a system. So there's a negative and a positive to a system. The thing about it is sometimes it's like, the major difference between me and Aaron, alright, has always been, I would say I'm a little bit more chaotic, Aaron likes the structure a little bit more. I'm a flyboy, I wake up in the morning, I'm like, I'm going to fucking do this, Aaron's a bit more like, I love a calendar. Yeah, yeah, I do love a calendar, and it's actually really interesting, it's like, it is very known, like people who have lived in the care system to follow structure. The word is insular, they become institutionalised, so that is why they drive towards prisons, drive towards working, or being in prison. They end up driving towards institutionalised jobs, stuff like this. Or they go off the rails and go towards drugs because they don't know how to get into that. Where Adam didn't even fit either of them, Adam just lives the life. Like, yeah, like he wasn't in a kid's home. My wife literally hates it because I'm so chaotic on absolutely everything I do, alright. And do you know what, there is an argument from a philosophical stance that chaos is a form of structure anyway, it's just a structure where you are bouncing around in different areas. But that's the interesting thing, but I think my time in kid's homes was totally different in a lot of ways. I was fucking smashing shit up, I was flipping, I wasn't in the house ever. It was a really different structure, but the thing about it is, we're still both in a system that failed in both ways in a lot of concepts as well. It's very different for me personally to come out of a system, to come out of that concept not having a structure of a family. Because I've got fucking four kids, alright. I have no idea how to bring my kids up, but my wife had a little bit of a hint because she had parents. And sort of like, that is the concept of a system and it's sort of like, there's a negative and there's a positive to it. But, I always say this as well, the way I see with bringing up my kids currently, alright, is I am trapped in the system because my kids from a very young age could follow certain structures in the sense of they can make their beds. Major fucking thing, making beds. In all fairness with kids homes, they throw that in your face very early on. I ain't fucking making your bed for you, you make it yourself. Or you're doing your washing on a Friday. Washing up. Washing up pocket money. If you look at your oldest daughter, it's like, if you do comparisons of Adam's oldest daughter, Lydia, is Lydia can do probably 30, no let's be honest, about 60% of household jobs. And most 19 year olds can't do it. And there's people, yeah, will ring their mum and be like, how do you do this, how do you do that, but I'd say around 60% she can do it. Children's homes. Yeah, and that is also, yeah, when you're in kids homes you're taught to go and do, to go and, yeah, like, on Saturday morning if you wanted your pocket money, your washing should be done, this has to be done, this has to be done. And it's kind of like, in my home it used to be, and when you're done let us know and we'll meet you in your room. And they come and inspect your room, as if we're in the military kind of thing. But I've got why they did do that though, is because the thing about it is, the thing about it is, I don't own kids homes right now, because to be fair I'm one of these people, it wouldn't interest me at all, in the sense of, I'd smash their faces in. What I mean by that is, it's the concept of, it's the concept of, I'd smash the system's face in. Because red tape for me, it never has been for me. But it's like, one of the things is, what they did offer you at that particular time period, not everything was perfect, because I can tell you stories from the kids home days that are ridiculously crazy. But the bits that they did put into you was very military based, alright, in the format of make your fucking bed, do your flip and wash in, get everything sorted so you can go and live your life out. In 90% of the time it's like rehabilitation, and it sounds really daft, and the prison system is an interesting thing with that. Aaron used the word system, and the prison concept is, the thing about it is, the rehabilitation always fails, alright, but it's the same with kids homes. It's this element of, you've been trained to get into society, but you can't truly get into society because you've got so much baggage, or you've got so-called baggage, whatever way you want to see it. What's really interesting, obviously Adam said he couldn't, I work in it, what's really interesting, I look at now, and we're 2024, for people who don't know this, it might not interest anyone either, is the first children's act was not till 89, so when me and Adam lived in the system, we're children indeed from the age of being really young, but we actually lived in the system around about 8-9 years after it's come out, there hasn't been many changes, and then actually the next 15 years is when the major changes in the system, DBS and CRB, so me and Adam actually lived in the system while the major changes were all happening, so when Adam says things went wrong, it's like, left things, obviously there's still safeguarding and shit like that, by my language, there's still stuff like that, but it's nowhere near where it would have been when we were there, Adam mentioned something earlier about being chaotic and stuff like that, so he's completely right, Adam lives his chaotic life, where Adam knows, I live my life off a calendar, I take the piss out of you constantly, and he mentions about our sister doing it, but I'm probably on another level, my life is on the calendar, I do argue that I live shifts, even when you're not on fucking shifts you need a calendar, I even have fun on the calendar, so today when me and my brother were meeting up, it says fun, Adam, and stuff like that, and then we're going to the beach next Friday with our nieces who are up from Bedford at the moment, and it's written on there, fun, family, and it's literally written on my calendar, and I live my life literally like that, I like it, I like knowing how I'm going to do it, I want to add more structure, it was really bad, so I've put on a little bit of weight, or a lot of weight, since being up here, and I want to go gym, and I'm like the best way to do that is to have it as a structure, as a time period I go, so I'm going to add even more, and I'm going to get abuse from Adam like, I can't believe that you've literally set 9 to 10 to go to the gym every day. 50 fucking 5 minutes of hell, I can't talk, I fucking run, I think that's the thing, I've got a question for us, because this is one of the things, what was your perspective, because I'll tell you my perspective in a second, what was your perspective of Sandra, that's our mum by the way, Sandy Sandra, I used to call her Sandra, but I did that from very young, I was a bit of a dick. So I'd call her mum, but I'd also call her Sandra Margaret, because that was her middle name, just to wind her up, because she didn't like it, Sandy Maggie, how I saw mum, I can answer that. How you saw mum, but more, let's use the word abstract, more abstract in the format of, from who she was, and all the stuff that happened to her, I don't give a shit about talking about her, she's fucking dead, but do you think she potentially, if the bad stuff didn't happen to her, which we'll get into, give us a minute, do you think she would have been a better mum, or do you think the genetic concept of being unwell was there from the beginning? I'm asking, is it trauma, or is it fucking not? Adam's asking nature-nurture questions, so I think you've got to naturally, and he's asking the one with the sociology degree as well, so I'll answer all that question, because there's little bits, and I'll ask my perspective on mum as well. Go for it, man, go for it. So I think if she was, I'd like to think if she was well, we would have stayed there and stuff like this, I also think you've got to look at how she was growing up, like the abuse she had as a child, there is a statistic about abuse and abuse, so the idea is abusers normally end up, have chaoticness in their own abuse, so you could say mum neglected us, that's why we went into care, we obviously accept the kind of reasons why she did it as an abstract of love, and I will use that word there, because it's what she understood what love was at the time. So that's how I look at it, I mean a little bit, I always say when people talk about mum, Sandra, whatever you want to say, she's my mum by blood, that's a really important question, she is my blood mum, I always saw it more as a grandma, what do people go and see their grandma for? Food and money. A tenner should give me, just give me my hand when I visit, I used to visit three times a week just for that, I'm kidding, I'm not joking, I'd go round there and they'd be like, can you make me a cup of tea because I can't get up, or coffee, one and a half. She wasn't a young mum, so she was 42 when she had you? 44. Well 44, she was 39 when she felt pregnant with me, 41 when I came by her. So these are the little things, so she was 44, I was 43. So these are the things, my kind of point I'm getting at, she was more like a nan, because you'd visit her, you'd visit your nan, you'd eat money, when I was younger I'd bake cakes with her, I used to go round there Sundays and she'd pay me 15 pounds to clean the flat, even though our auntie, I cleaned it in the morning anyway. And so, it sounds like an extortion by me, doesn't it? You are extorting a fucking old lady, that's fucking despicable. So we'd go round there and we'd watch Heartbeat, and I'd be there for like two hours, and that, if anyone looks at their relationship they have with their nan, you'd go round in their hoops, so I always saw my relationship with my mum and the nan, that's my perspective on that bit. I had a little bit more of a harder relationship, I think, with Sandra, because, and I do, you'll get it, if we ever talk about my mum, she will not, she... I think I was a little bit more harder than the others on her in a lot of ways, I think. I think you were less... I think we're a lot more emotional, so I could take that emotion with mum. I was a lot harder, because I think, I was set up in my first children's home in East Angular, and the only reason I came back was because of Sandra, and I was actually doing... So I was diagnosed with ADHD very, very young, and I was in this kids' home, and I was doing brilliant in the kids' home, fucking loved it. It was like a kids' home, kids' home, what I mean is like, you've got fucking to do shit. It wasn't a council children's home, and she made a decision, to be fair, very soon afterwards she lost the rights to make any decisions for me, but she made a decision that she wanted to call me back into county. It saved the county a load of money and stuff like that, and I was very bitter for a long, long time for that. So I was 11 to about 14. I didn't really speak to Sandra, in the sense of, but that was out of choice, that was out of fucking choice, that was out of stuff like that. And my relationship with my mum probably didn't really pick up till I was 16. 16 when I moved back to Bedford, when I moved back to Bedford. You then spent a lot of time... I spent a lot of time, man. Any of us did. I took her out all the time and stuff like that, and I think that's probably, there was a bit of guilt and stuff like that, but I never referred to her as mum. Never, ever. And it was one of the big things is, mum used to ask, oh, why didn't you call me that? And I just, for me, for me, it was slightly different. She wasn't, she was a person that had me, but she wasn't in my head, my mother, ever. Because I've always had this thing in my head that, it sounds really weird how I'm saying this, and I'm really fucking, I was always my own mother and my own father. Yeah. Okay, I have that. And the nearest people to me that were father figures was a guy that was called Steve Walgart, one of the carers, and then a guy that died in December called Stuart. And these people were, these kinds of people, the nearest things, but they were still fucking 150 miles away from me. And my relationship with Sandra was never, ever, she was my mother. I don't know what it was. I knew that she birthed me, and it was nothing abusive or horrible about this at all. It wasn't like, it sounds really negative how I'm saying this, but it was my relationship with Sandra, and it was a relationship that is sometimes considered a bit of hard-line relationship. But it's the same with, I don't really see my auntie Susan as my auntie, and I don't really see my uncle Vivian when he was alive as an uncle, but we barely knew him. But we barely knew him in that format, and a lot with John as well. I know Emma gets a bit funny fucking about when I, I refer to my dad as John, all right? I was scared of my mum as Sandra. But that was always my perspective, but I was always of the mindset of, when I had kids, all right, I was going to be the fucking, a warrior and a fucking dog for them. No, it's a dog. I just wanted to be a dog for them because my mum and dad were never a dog for me. I had to be a dog for myself. When I refer to the term as a dog, relentless, all right? Loyal, fucking fierce. And I kind of felt like from a very young age, Sandra fouled on that with me. And my dad fouled fundamentally because he died, all right? But that was always my perspective of Sandra in that format. So I also, so I had some similar things as well, but it was like I didn't know them. So there was a point they wanted to send me to boarding school permanently, and there was talks about I'd come home and I'd go and stay. So my auntie Susan and I have a relationship and she is my auntie. And not just blood, by being the person as well. So I read a little bit of my file. They wanted to send me to boarding school at one point. Mum knowed it because it was down in Dover. Knowed it? She knowed it. She knew. No, not knowed it. No. She said no to it. Oh, she said no to it. No. She knowed it. Oh, I thought you meant it. I thought you said she knowed it. Like, I'm a hillbilly. I'm a hillbilly. She knew it. She knowed it. She knowed it. She was no to it. Yeah, that isn't happening. And they listened. Well, I was like, I would love that to be honest. But then in 2000, when I was, there was, I moved to Felixstowe at the time who was my foster parents. And mum didn't want that to happen either because it was too far away. That was kind of a no choice bet, wasn't it? But I didn't come back till 2002. Yeah, no. But there was, there was in 2000, I've got loads of pictures taken to go in the foster parent catalogue for them to choose your child. And because mum didn't want this to happen. I know what I had in my head then was dark web. For some reason, pedophile catalogue there. Dodgy, dodgy. It does sound it. It sounds weird as fuck. You go in the catalogue for someone to choose you. But do you know what's more controversial? You're flicking through the catalogue and you're like, I ain't having the Chinese man. Love it. Love that fucking little white guy. Fucking hell. That's what they're doing. And that's actually, they allowed that to happen at that point. But you are talking, yeah, 99, 2000 when you're talking, when this happened. That happens with pets though. It happens with pets. It's that concept of you only pick the good looking pets, don't the ugly fucker. Which the ugly fuckers tend to be more funny and live longer. Yeah, yeah. No, I agree. But I also agree with that perspective that Adam saw of, of who, I said, oh, they're like father figure, but they weren't my father. And like, I don't, weird thing, I call it dad dad. But, I would say I have never had a dad. Because I don't remember him. Like, people remember stories and memories. I don't physically remember him. He died when I was four and a half. Yeah, you did remember him. You remember his carcass being dragged out the fucking house. You remember that fucking dead bag That fucking dead bag, mate. Yeah, I probably, nah, nah, I remember more a rabbit dying than that. So I don't really have a memory. So I always saw it as, and this is, it's a problem in my adulthood now. And Adam has the same problem. He can try to deny it, but he won't, he won't. I don't like being told what to do. And I was like, if you, someone once said to me, what do you think one of your childhood traumas are like? Because I live the system so yeah. And I said, I never had a parent to tell me what to do. And then I never allowed anyone else to tell me what to do. I bet you're the same. I just don't do anything for anything. But I bet that's because you've never had the real person tell you what to do. If you get the ins and the outs and the deeps of it, it'll be that 100% thing. But that's where I do sort of, look, I'm going to sound fucking conservative, fuck it. I do sign up for strong, strong male figures in life. And it doesn't necessarily mean you need to be a father figure. No, no, no. You don't need to be a fucking strong ass fucking uncle. Because the thing about it is, there's a... So Steve did that. Yeah, Steve did that. Stuart did that in my latter teens and stuff like that. And, and, and, but the thing about it is, this is, this is the thing. I think you did that for me. And like, but the thing is, remember I said Adam is, like, things are things, abstract, chaos. But when Adam returned to Bedford, I was in Kempston, was like right next to it. And he's going to start telling you about all the 41 year olds and women that are shagging at 18. I wasn't going to talk about them. But I was more going down the lines of, Adam brought me my first drink. Adam took me to my first festival. Adam's got me into the first pub. Adam's ID got me my first passport. And they're very... My first tattoo. My first passport tattoo. I want to stop for a minute. So I took him to this little fucking festival. And we went there because, my girlfriend at the time loved this band called New Groove Formation. They were amazing. Fucking great ska band. Great Bedford. The home county band. And sort of like, we got him so smashed, alright. He was like fucking, asleep, half fucking naked in this fucking tent. Hanging out a bit. Hanging out a bit. And he was like, I don't know, how old are you? I want to be 16. 16 maybe. But fucking, there was loads of shit. I remember him going, I want a tattoo. And I was just like, I'll take my fucking passport. Fuck off. And he didn't look fuck all like me. That was the funny thing about our passport picture. Fucking nothing like me. I would have been, yeah, maybe 15. Maybe 15. Because you're three years older. And you came back when you were 18. Yeah. So I would have been 15. So that was, my first tattoo was 14, 15 years old. My first festival was 14, 15 years old. I was definitely the youngest there kind of thing. And because it was in just a farmer's field. But we had to travel to it. It was on a train way. I remember we had to walk down a fucking hill into a valley. It took fucking ages to walk down that fucking hill. It took so long. And I remember, what I remember, you'll be, you'll be, he fucking loves walking. He loves walking, mate. We went for a walk about, a month back, eight weeks back. And the ones that you're laying down on the fucking floor going, I'm trying. I'm fucking trying. I was concerned. I was having a heart attack. He fucking looked like he was having a heart attack. I was like, that's fucking brilliant. But the thing about it is, the thing about it is, is that context with the father figure, the element. And I do believe in that. I've got this thing in my head that boys need a solid, a solid figure. I mean, and it doesn't, it doesn't, so I'm not saying, I don't sign up to just, finger brackets, a traditional marriage. So I don't care if you're two fathers or two mothers, but I do think there needs to be a concept of a uncle that is a male. All right. That is very, very solid. Okay. All right. And that can, you can go to that because I think boys are very different to girls. Right. Chemically, mentally, absolutely fucking everything. This is one of the biggest things with that is, and I think with the lack of us doing that, having that, we kind of went down the viewpoint of trying to father ourselves. Yeah. Try to, so, and what we understood of masculinity when it might have been you joining the connects. All right. Or me thinking, all right, fuck it. I'll start robbing cars like all the fucking everybody else. Do you know what I mean? And that was that concept. And the thing about it is, I do think, I do think if John was alive, we would have, my mum would have probably never got to the point that she would have. But I do think John, John would have held that solid. I always, he would have fucking held us on, but in the military, man, it was a fucking military man. I always think to myself, what would be different? And I, I, in the way of like, but really weird things. I don't believe I would have went to uni. I don't know. I think I would have, I would have been in the trade because dad had a trade or in the military. Yeah. Dad was in the military. It's not because he was in them that I'd have them. It's, um, yeah, it's not because he was in them that I'd have them. It's because he was that kind of man where he believed in the military. He believed in, um, uh, yeah, having a trade. He was a concept of a disciplinarian as well. So I do have, I do have fucking memories of him. So the memories that I have of him, it's slightly different. I remember him, him being a solid father. I remember him fucking pushing us on swings. I remember him fucking doing his woodcraft shit in the fucking thing. And he was a geezer geezer. He was a man, man in that format. And I think, I think in our, in our society, we do need to offer our kids that kind of element as well. And I think we do lack that nowadays because we, again, the society is getting more feminine and you find fucking boys on, haven't got that solidness in their lives. And it's that thing. And I think I always have this concept of what, what parents offer, what parents offer. Moms always fucking offer that in the chest. I love you. So booze and me sort of like, and then fathers always offer this. They, they will say, I love you, but then they will challenge you. And that is a father's role. A father's role is to go, all right, look, babe, I love you. I love you to pieces. I'm going to get your ass booted. And you're going to get me fucking put out in that real world. Doesn't mean you can't come back, but you've got to get that. And that is the concept. I think, and especially in kids' homes, and I'm going to criticise kids' homes as well. Steve was the only male in that kids' home. So I'm the only man. And with kids' homes, a lot of kids' homes, you're the only man. It's very effeminate. So this is the problem. You don't have a male challenge. And I remember once, Steve fucking came into my face and fucking did that. He goes, what the fuck are you going to do? What the fuck? You've got to learn. You've got to learn. And he had that kind of attitude. And a lot of the other ones were more motherly. And I think we do, in society, miss that. And that is, sometimes, I will say that, that is sometimes the men's issue. Because a lot of men fuck off, and they're like, I ain't doing this. And they're pussy holes about the situation. And then they are left by that. But the problem I have with that is, there is no strong males in them families that will stand up and take responsibility for the kids. Are we, is that why we're having a change in society, in like behaviours? It would be really interesting to see if there's any, I'm not going to make that assumption, but is there a study, is there anything that says, is actually, if you look at 20 years, 40 years ago, compared to 20 years ago, where a lot more, we've got more single parents, and generally they're more female, where the parents are. Are we losing that hard kind of side, and it's all emotional led? Yeah, well I think that's half the problem. It is emotional led. Yeah, yeah. I mean, let's think, let's move this on a little bit. So, we understand that our parents are fucking mental, alright? We understand that our... Chicken oriented. Yeah, chicken oriented. We understand that our fucking childhood was fairly messed up and interesting, okay? What about our relationship? Because, it's sort of like, I think, the thing about it is, we spent our 20s at war with each other. And that's an honest, we were about 28 years old, so I'd say, what, 21 to 28. We spent our war with each other. There was many reasons for that, okay? There was, one of the reasons was, I went into the priesthood, and I went into a very conservative bunch of it, and within the priesthood, within that particular area, and it wasn't, so we got, within that priesthood time period, I think that is quite often, there was only a very short time period, within that time period, that, time period, that provides time zone, alright? But I was, I would say I was conservative. The rest of the time period, it was quite an open element. And the conservative people that I was with, were very anti-homosexuality, very anti-women, which, It was only about four years. It was only about four years. It wasn't as long as, so it would have been from, my third year of university, I was 24. So 24 to, no, 23. My third year of uni was 20, oh, 21, 22, 23, 24. Yeah. To your, 28. I left the church at 28. Yeah, so it was only four years. Yeah, yeah. And that's around about, it would have been, so, Lydia being born, would have been, Lydia was born at 24. Lydia was born at 24. Yeah. She was 11, wasn't she? Yeah, yeah, 24. So that was the period where it was. And like, but it's, regards our relationship, you have to actually, look at the whole thing, it's like, is, so, I mean, from my point of view, so, I had no brother, as really young. I had no brother either. I don't see it like that. Yeah, because we didn't, it's because we didn't see each other, we weren't allowed, we didn't really spend any time together. Probably around 11, 12, was when we first really spent some time together. Then around about me being 14, when you come back to bed for property, I've got a brother, and I, I needed, that's what, my male figure, I needed that. Then Adam's gone. 20, I left that at 20. Yeah, so we had about five years, four, so, if you came when you were 17, about three years together then. 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everyone will have an understanding, and it'll be interesting to hear other people's point of view and stuff like that, maybe like on the threads afterwards and stuff like that as well. But yeah, listen to me people, please like, subscribe, let me know what you think. My name is Aaron, your name is... Aaron. Oh shit, I'm Adam! I'm Adam, that's fucking Aaron. How did you do that? I don't fucking dare. His name is Adam. And his name's Aaron. See you later. Did you... Did you...