Joe Interview

The speaker discusses their perspective on being American, highlighting the importance of both rights and responsibilities. They express pride in being American, despite acknowledging areas where the country falls short compared to others. Traveling has made them appreciate their own country's youth and the need for continual improvement. They also reflect on moments that made them proud or embarrassed to be American, such as the Olympics and the actions of former President Trump. When asked what makes someone American, they emphasize values of freedom, equality, and democracy. Lastly, they admit to feeling overrepresented as a white, straight, married man in America. period, at the end of it, is that a clause? No, you do not need to fill them out. Okay. Okay, are you ready? I am. Okay. My first question is, what does being American mean to you? Well, that's a huge question, but being an American, to me, probably means both rights and responsibilities. You have these rights, which everybody talks about. You know, you've got First Amendment rights, you've got Texas Amendment rights, you've got all the rights that you have in the Bill of Rights, which are incredible. But there's also, I think, a huge responsibility to be an American. There's not just, I get this stuff, but what do I have to do? And those are the responsibilities. I have to pay my taxes, I have to obey the laws, I have to vote, I have to be part of a civic society and try to get along with other people and make the world a better place. I think that's a hugely important part of being an American. So it's not just, what do I get, but what am I responsible for? I think that's a really important part of the two things that are really important, rights and responsibilities. I like that answer. Okay, my second question is, do you like being American and are you proud to be an American? Yeah, I think I'm immensely proud to be an American. There are things I'm, I think America falls really short on compared to other countries. You know, we're a very unequal society financially. We don't take care of people's health care. We don't have maternity leave. We don't take care of people who have children. We don't take care of older people very well, although that's not as bad as some of the other things. Yeah, when I'm in another country, you know, the great thing about travel is that you can compare your country to others. And I always think, you know, we could do some things better in America. But by and large, I can't imagine wanting to live anywhere else or be a citizen of another country as much as I am an American. So, yeah, I'm very proud to be an American. You actually kind of touched on my next question for you, which I know you've been to a lot of places around the world, Hong Kong included, and you've been on lots of trips with my parents. So I wanted to know how have your travels around the world, and even within America, changed your perspective on the American experience and the American identity? Sure. So it's funny that I did not travel to another foreign country until I was mid-20s. And I didn't go outside of North America until I was in my 30s, until I was 33. And so I didn't have a lot of experience traveling when I was younger. And so I think that makes me appreciate travel more, and maybe I look forward to it more. I find travel thrilling outside the United States, mostly because you just learn other things, but also you realize what a young country America is. I remember the first day I was in Italy in 2004, and there was this building there that was from the 1500s, and it's the oldest building I had ever seen, just because in America there are no buildings that are that old. And so just realizing how young a country is is amazing to me, because America is very young. But then you think, you know, we just assume America is going to be a certain way, that we are going to have this Constitution, we're going to have this way that America always is. And we're so young that we really haven't had a chance much to go through the huge changes that go through a lot of countries. Basically, we had the Civil War, and that's it. And so if we don't continue to work and improve the United States, then there's no reason that we won't go through more of those in the future. So it makes me think that we need to make sure that we're taking care of the United States and doing things that promote justice and equality and democracy, even though we're 250 years into it. Yeah, I mean, 250 years is like nothing if you actually think about it. Yeah, it is. It's nothing. Yeah, that's crazy to think about. Okay, I want to go back to you talking about being proud to be American, and I wanted to kind of delve into those moments when you felt the most American or, in contrast, the least American. So you can tell a personal story if you want, or just kind of— Tell me kind of what you mean by most and least American. Yeah, that can be—it can be kind of however you interpret it. But I interpret the question as when do you feel most patriotic or the least patriotic, the most proud moment to call yourself an American or the least proud moment you felt to be an American. Yeah. Okay. So this is—most proud moments are going to be a little bit—they're really diverse. So the first time—and I know you've probably heard of this, but I remember being a 9-year-old in 1980 during the Olympics when we won the ice hockey gold medal. And I had never watched an ice hockey game before that Olympics, but I remember watching them with my dad, and I remember how, you know, we were schooled in that the Soviet Union was bad, bad, bad. These are bad people, and so it was like the enemy. And when we beat them in the semifinal game, I just—I still remember that moment of how proud I was that we were beating these evil people. But that's how you think of a 9-year-old, right? I remember being very proud when we elected Barack Obama in 2008 because that was such a life-changing event for so many people. That here we can elect a black president with a weird name, and it was an overwhelming, joyous occasion. And although he wasn't a perfect president, it's still—you know, I think it's an amazing thing that we were able to do that in America when it seemed like it was still decades away in 2008. So immensely proud of that. And conversely, I think I'm most embarrassed— there are two things that I'm embarrassed about in the post-Republican process. When we went to the Olympics in Athens in 2004, that was right after George Bush started the war in Iraq. You know, it was the next year. And I remember being a little embarrassed about being an American because it was clearly a war that was completely fabricated, that didn't have anything to do with the 9-11 bombing— not bombings, but the 9-11 killings. And it was a little embarrassing to be an American, and so we didn't really wear any USA gear or red, white, and blue. And so I still think about that occasionally and how it was not a great moment to be an American. And similarly, you know, when dipshit Trump was going around— you know, going to these conferences with leaders of the foreign world or, you know, of other countries, whether it's the G7 or something like that, G8, and just making a fool of himself and therefore making us all look like all the American stereotypes. That's really embarrassing, you know, to send this guy, who's a complete dipshit, off to these incredible meetings with these very intelligent people and just act like a bumbling idiot. That's super embarrassing. We're better than that. We can represent ourselves much better than sending him to these really important conferences. Yeah, I would say that's a good moment. Even I, as a child, could feel it was not a great time to be an American. Okay, so I want to pivot a little bit to talking about the more general American population. I want to ask you specifically, what do you believe makes someone an American? You know, I don't really know how to answer that question, Ada. And what do you mean—what do you mean? I mean, do you mean, like, literally or some sort of metaphor, American? I mean, I think that's the beauty of this question, is that people answer it— like, we ask these questions in class, and people—they came up with two different answers. Some people focused on, like, what it meant to look American. Some people focused on what it meant to, like, literally, like, how you could hold an American passport. So, yeah, you can answer it both ways or however you think, like, what it means being American. If it only means holding a passport, then, yeah, answer it how you can obtain an American passport. Sure. And what's funny about that is very few Americans actually own a passport as compared to a different— other countries where everybody has a passport, less of Americans. I think only, like, a third of Americans have a passport. I could be way off, but I—that's the number that sticks in my head, or the percentage. So I'm going to answer it a little bit differently. When, you know, when 9-11 happened, which was 23 years ago today, there was an article, I think, in Le Monde, which is a terrorist newspaper, and it said, We are all Americans. And so what does that mean? I think that means that to be an American, you—you know, obviously they were empathizing with what happened here, but also it meant that, you know, we were attacked because we are freedom-loving people who don't restrict people's religion or speech or rights of women or minorities. And I made a caveat with that because, obviously, that is changing in somewhat the wrong way. But, you know, we respect lots of people, and we don't—we try not to play favorites. We do, but, you know, our ideals say we don't. And so I think that's what, really, Le Monde was saying, was that being an American is treating people equally, having democracy, and loving freedom. Yeah. Okay. Or promoting freedom. My next question is kind of with that definition in mind, or your idea of what it means to be an American in mind, I want to ask you if you feel represented in America. And that can be in American politics, in the media, in the general, like, demographics. Like, do you feel represented? Okay. Just a second. I'm texting Heidi. Do I feel represented in America? Okay, so as a 53-year-old white male who's straight and has three children and is married, do I feel represented in America? Yeah, I think I'm overrepresented in America. I don't think there's any question about that. And, you know, being in Nebraska, I fit in very easily. I hardly ever feel like I don't fit in or that I'm excluded or I don't belong somewhere, just because of the innate power that I have as fitting that demographic. Yeah. Okay. But, you know, it was important to me when I was teaching that to promote people who were not like me. I felt like Tim Walz. You know, Tim Walz was the sponsor of the Gay-Straight Alliance at his school. And so for me, promoting people who were different for me, I had a power to do that that other people didn't. And so that was really important to me. So I remember we had a person, a teacher at Norris who was gay, who did not feel comfortable in standing up for people who were like her. And I had a discussion, and I told her, I have to do it because I am not gay, because that's just how it works. It's easy to stand up for yourself and people like you, but it's more important to stand up for people who aren't like you. And so I thought that was a really important role that I had as a teacher. This wasn't one of my initial questions, but I still wanted to ask you how being a teacher has changed or not changed your perspective on Americans and the American identity. Yeah, I think that when you're a teacher at a public school, you see all different kinds of people. And even though I was teaching for more than half of my career at a rural school that had very little poverty and was mostly all completely white, you do get to see a snapshot of America that a lot of people don't because you see everybody. If you're working at a bank or if you're even a professor at a university, you don't get to see everybody like you see kids at a public school. So you have a chance to understand better what the makeup of America is. Yeah. I think even just coming to Thatcher, like my history teacher said, could he answer that question in class? And you said the same thing, that just getting to see more people than you would ever see in another job. Yeah. Okay, so my last question for you is more focused on your life in the Midwest and living in Lublin, Nebraska. And the question is, how does being from the Midwest play a role in your American experience? You know, everywhere you go, everywhere you live, you're kind of in a cocoon. You know, when we go to New York and see Sadie, there's an outlook on life there that is clearly different from when you grew up in Nebraska. It's just there's a different mindset, and that's geographical, that's geographic, that's urban, rural, there's so many things that factor into that. And I think it's clear to me that growing up in the Midwest, there is a different work ethic, I think, but it's more about physical labor. Whereas if you're a kid growing up on the Upper West Side, your work ethic might be cello lessons and piano lessons and math lessons and a different kind of work than what you would do in the Midwest where you're thinking more about detailing corn or mowing lawns. And it's not as education-based, although I think education is really important to people in Nebraska. It's just part of a whole that includes physical labor. All right. I mean, unless you want to add anything else, I think that's all the questions I have. But yeah, if you want to talk about anything else, anything you think is important to the theme of this project, feel free to add that. I don't. I just, how do you feel about, you know, you've grown up in different places now. What is your thought about how the Midwest differs from other places? Yeah, I mean, I think the work ethic is a great point. I think even like within our family, I see it. You know, me and Meg kind of get dogged on a little bit for not being as tough as our cousins. But again, I think that's because, not because we're not willing to be, but because we just didn't have the opportunity growing up. Yeah, for sure. And so much of it is opportunity. It's not a moral thing. It's not like you're a better person than somebody. It's just a different outlook on what work is and looks like. Yeah, I totally get that. Exactly. And yeah, just growing up in Hong Kong, I mean, I've always been kind of obsessed with America. And less so now that I'm living here again. But like while I was in Hong Kong, you know, the best thing, or the thing I wanted was to go back to the U.S. So I had kind of a really positive view of the United States and specifically the Midwest. And I kind of like idolized it. Right. So yeah, you know, I think the people that live in the Midwest, like those are my favorite people. Like those are the people that I still find the most community with and see myself represented in. Even though I didn't live there for more than five years, which is interesting. Right. That is interesting. You know, the Midwest is not perfect by any means. No. You know.